Current Affairs

[Mervyn and Trish]

Better bugger off quick then Jack before they close the door

[Jack Staff]

Merv, it's clear that me banging on about Brexit is annoying you. My apologies for that, but if you could just tell me what is so good about Brexit, I will happily either disappear, or talk about Ant & Dec's new haircuts (have they still got hair? Never watch them myself so probably not the best choice of subject).

[oldbluefox]

Here's one Jack. If you hate it so much perhaps you'll move to Belgium

Would love to, but because of Brexit I will be unable.

Not true, Jack. Just because we leave the EU does not mean nobody travels to or works in other countries in Europe. That's just a lie put out by the Remain group, same as the lie that all EU migrants will have to return to their native lands.

Btw, thanks for the excuses. Let me ask you a question now...............
Living up here in Cumbria what benefits should I have seen from 40 years of membership of the EU. We have poor job prospects (apart from Sellafield), lack of manufacturing industry as a consequence of poor road infrastructure, poor rail links, a hospital service which is seriously struggling (due mainly to Bliar's PFI initiative) using equipment which is often dated or just not available , Victorian build schools, parts of the county where there is no mobile or broadband service, etc etc. What benefits should I have looked forward to had we voted to remain in the EU?

[oldbluefox]

Please tell us jack, what do you consider to be a sustainable population for the UK? 80 million ? 100 million? Surely you are aware of the EU expansion policy? Are you lucky enough to live in an area that has not been swamped with EU immigration? My local roads are gridlocked due to population explosion. Kent need to find 23 thousand extra school places by 2020.

What on Earth has this got to do with world population? (unintended pun)

The population is rising everywhere, due to sustainable food supplies and the lack of (major) wars. Something the EU has been very successful at.
Are you suggesting that Europe would be better when we are all fighting over the last sandwich?

EU expansion is about territory, yes the population rises as the area of the Union rises.

Unfortunately I do live in an area that has not been swamped with EU immigration. Here (Blukip territory) there are many people who are scared of foreigners because they simply do not know any.

Kent better get on and build those schools then. How are they going to do that without Polish builders I wonder.

I would be expecting more benefit from the EU than imported sandwiches and the security from lack of wars.
I think your response to barney's post just demonstrates that because you are barely affected you have little idea of the effects of EU policy, in this case migration.

[Jack Staff]

Here's one Jack. If you hate it so much perhaps you'll move to Belgium

Would love to, but because of Brexit I will be unable.

Not true, Jack. Just because we leave the EU does not mean nobody travels to or works in other countries in Europe. That's just a lie put out by the Remain group, same as the lie that all EU migrants will have to return to their native lands.

Really? You obviously know more than Johnson and Davis. Mind you, they have not convinced me that is difficult.

Btw, thanks for the excuses.

No problem. Only they were not excuses. Just that your references were meaningless.

Let me ask you a question now...............

ok, but you haven't answered my question yet remember.

Living up here in Cumbria what benefits should I have seen from 40 years of membership of the EU. We have poor job prospects (apart from Sellafield), lack of manufacturing industry as a consequence of poor road infrastructure, poor rail links, a hospital service which is seriously struggling (due mainly to Bliar's PFI initiative) using equipment which is often dated or just not available , Victorian build schools, parts of the county where there is no mobile or broadband service, etc etc. What benefits should I have looked forward to had we voted to remain in the EU?

Here you go...
"EU contributes millions to Cumbrian economy
The funds are designed to help regional development and boost economic growth and the allocation funds are set to increase to £73.3 million under the 2014-2020 programme.
The EU also contributed £13 million to help the rollout of superfast broadband in Cumbria which directly benefitted 2,800 SMEs in the region who were connected to the network.
The EU also provided Cumbria Tourism with a grant of £2.4million to promote Regional Culture and Heritage Marketing."
These figures are from 2016, lets hope nothing stops the money coming through , eh?

[oldbluefox]

You can quote as many figures as you like but you have still not answered my question, 'What benefits should I have looked forward to had we voted to remain in the EU?' The problems I have outlined are not confined to the west coast of Cumbria but are replicated throughout the country. And just like the politicians all you can do is quote a few figures and think that is enough, job done. It is that attitude which has resulted in the UK voting to leave the EU because nobody listened!! The unrest has been there for a long time and nobody listened because they were all living comfortably under the EU umbrella.
Notable that anything you do not agree with is dismissed as meaningless therefore there is no point in debating anything with you because clearly, you don't listen either.

[Jack Staff]

I would be expecting more benefit from the EU than imported sandwiches and the security from lack of wars.
I think your response to barney's post just demonstrates that because you are barely affected you have little idea of the effects of EU policy, in this case migration.

I think the lack of wars is quite a good reason to have the EU.
But we don't need to worry about about such things do we? Just last week Farage was threatening to don khaki and pick up a rifle. Of course he never would,deleted.
How do you know how I am affected? I am regularly in some of our smaller cities where I find it refreshing to hear the many languages. Here, in Blukip territory, where everyone is retired but still Tory, there are, truth be know quite a few EU citizens. Though they are hidden, doing all the jobs that English people will not contemplate (nursing homes and the like). In the coming years I could be a resident in one. I very much hope the staff will be European, instead of the brain dead English that might be employed to do that sort of job.

[Jack Staff]

You can quote as many figures as you like but you have still not answered my question, 'What benefits should I have looked forward to had we voted to remain in the EU?'

" living comfortably under the EU umbrella. "

The problems I have outlined are not confined to the west coast of Cumbria but are replicated throughout the country.

Ah, I see. Our country. The country that our government is responsible for, not the EU.

And just like the politicians all you can do is quote a few figures and think that is enough, job done.

What do you expect me to do? Come up there and fix the roads myself? Think I'd fix the roads around here first if I could.

It is that attitude which has resulted in the UK voting to leave the EU because nobody listened!! The unrest has been there for a long time and nobody listened because they were all living comfortably under the EU umbrella.

We have an election coming, they are listening at the moment, but be quick, normal service in 3 weeks time.

Notable that anything you do not agree with is dismissed as meaningless therefore there is no point in debating anything with you because clearly, you don't listen either.

Notable that you can think the Chairman of Leave means Leave is an impartial source of information.

I'm still listening for a Brexit benefit (that might have a wiff of truth about it).

[oldbluefox]

I'm still listening for a Brexit benefit (that might have a wiff of truth about it).

We won't be sending the EU £19 billion per year.

[Jack Staff]

So it's pretty clear from tonights conversation(s) that even you guys are not expecting Brexit to deliver the sunlit uplands.
Nobody is saying we will all live in clover because....

All I'm getting is 'currently it's rubbish here, so lets trash it'.

But you guys seem to think there is a spoonful of sugar that will help the medicine go down.
Please someone tell me what just that one spoonful may be. Give me something that will be better because of Brexit.

[Jack Staff]

I'm still listening for a Brexit benefit (that might have a wiff of truth about it).

We won't be sending the EU £19 billion per year.

The same £350 million a week for the NHS? that was found out to be a lie. (19billion divided by 52)

[Stephen]

Property is available in other parts of Europe should you so choose!

[oldbluefox]

You asked for a Brexit benefit, Jack. I gave you one. Seems you are arguing for argument's sake.

[barney]

Please tell us jack, what do you consider to be a sustainable population for the UK? 80 million ? 100 million? Surely you are aware of the EU expansion policy? Are you lucky enough to live in an area that has not been swamped with EU immigration? My local roads are gridlocked due to population explosion. Kent need to find 23 thousand extra school places by 2020.

What on Earth has this got to do with world population? (unintended pun)

The population is rising everywhere, due to sustainable food supplies and the lack of (major) wars. Something the EU has been very successful at.
Are you suggesting that Europe would be better when we are all fighting over the last sandwich?

EU expansion is about territory, yes the population rises as the area of the Union rises.

Unfortunately I do live in an area that has not been swamped with EU immigration. Here (Blukip territory) there are many people who are scared of foreigners because they simply do not know any.

Kent better get on and build those schools then. How are they going to do that without Polish builders I wonder.

So, again I ask the same question, Jack.

What do YOU think is a sustainable population for the UK ?

Do you think that an island with finite resources can sustain an infinite population ?

Seriously. Try and answer this simple question with a number.

[Jack Staff]

You asked for a Brexit benefit, Jack. I gave you one. Seems you are arguing for argument's sake.

But it is a lie. Not by you happily. But a lie non the less.

It is untrue. Therefore not a Brexit benefit.

If Brexit is so wonderful, surely you can can come up with something.

[david63]

This is all getting monotonous and all that seems to happening is that everyone is "going round in circles".

Either have a reasoned debate or I will lock this topic.

(Incidentally Jack I have not as yet seen any contribution to cruising by you which is, after all, the main focus of this board)

[Jack Staff]

So, again I ask the same question, Jack.

What do YOU think is a sustainable population for the UK ?

The UK is the 51st most densely populated country or dependency in the World. So we are a long way off, whatever.

Do you think that an island with finite resources can sustain an infinite population ?

Malta, an island with finite resources can sustain a population density of 1,562 people per square kilometre.
In mid-2013 the population density of England was 413 people per sq km compared with 149 people per sq km in Wales and 135 people per sq km in Northern Ireland. Scotland has the lowest population density at 68 people per sq km.

Seriously. Try and answer this simple question with a number.

Ok, the area of the UK is 242,495 km². If a little country like Malta can do it, we should be able to too, right?
242495 X 1,562 =378,777,190

So my simple answer to your simple question is 378,777,190 people.
We need to be asking more serious questions, not simple ones, to try and solve the problems of Britain and the world.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I'm not even going to bother to answer your question Jack because you will always respond with a pile of quotes or numbers to prove you're right as usual and I'm wrong.

The only facts that matter to me are these.

We were all offered to same arguments by the Leave and Stay campaign. Some were accurate, some were inaccurate and some were downright lies. On both sides.

We all made our decision and cast our votes on the same information. Leavers are neither stupider nor less well informed than remainers. I believe we will be better off out, you believe we will be better off in. We are both entitled to that view. you are not more right than me.

However, the leave vote was greater than the remain vote.

Since the vote some remainers have persistently denigrated the leavers and have tried to derail the process.

As a result Theresa May has now called a general election in the hope of getting a decent mandate for the way ahead.

We now have the opportunity to vote for her vision or that offered by the other parties. That too will be a democratic vote which will determine our immediate future.

End of story.

Not more quotes, facts or stats required. Thank you.

[qbman1]

....unless the general election produces an increased majority for the Conservatives, in which case there will be calls in certain quarters for a re-run !!

[barney]

So, again I ask the same question, Jack.

What do YOU think is a sustainable population for the UK ?

The UK is the 51st most densely populated country or dependency in the World. So we are a long way off, whatever.

Do you think that an island with finite resources can sustain an infinite population ?

Malta, an island with finite resources can sustain a population density of 1,562 people per square kilometre.
In mid-2013 the population density of England was 413 people per sq km compared with 149 people per sq km in Wales and 135 people per sq km in Northern Ireland. Scotland has the lowest population density at 68 people per sq km.

Seriously. Try and answer this simple question with a number.

Ok, the area of the UK is 242,495 km². If a little country like Malta can do it, we should be able to too, right?
242495 X 1,562 =378,777,190

So my simple answer to your simple question is 378,777,190 people.
We need to be asking more serious questions, not simple ones, to try and solve the problems of Britain and the world.

LOL you've got to be kidding me Jack

Malta is in total gridlock most of the time.

Have you been?

I have many times and love the place but would never want to live there.

My brother had a dive school there for twenty years but sold up last year and retired to ....... Monserrat in the Caribbean.

Part of the reason for moving out of Malta was due to the huge changes imposed by their pro - EU labour government.

It's lost a part of it's identity.

They have an election on 3rd June.

It will be interesting to see how that goes . Labour or National Party ?????

PS I assume your 378 million population is a joke, right ?

[screwy]

World Population has just passed 7.5 Billion..

Gt Britain Population....65.462.904 as at 19 may 2017.

[wolfie]

This is all getting monotonous and all that seems to happening is that everyone is "going round in circles".

Either have a reasoned debate or I will lock this topic.

(Incidentally Jack I have not as yet seen any contribution to cruising by you which is, after all, the main focus of this board)

Just what I was about to post and would have done way back with their mostly contentious, non cruising based contributions, from the outset. We ALL veer away from cruising topics at times but always get back to them, eventually.

Do please lock it, as you said............. it is going nowhere, ' Content deleted '

[Manoverboard]

Current Affairs and / or Brexit are perfectly valid discussion points ... providing, as D63 said, those who post aim to have a ' reasoned debate '.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Though with the argument going in circles it is clear none of us on either side of the Brexit debate are ready to change our minds, so maybe it is time to move on to a different aspect of current affairs before we bore our fellow forum members to death!

[Jan Rosser]

Though with the argument going in circles it is clear none of us on either side of the Brexit debate are ready to change our minds, so maybe it is time to move on to a different aspect of current affairs before we bore our fellow forum members to death!

You already have I avoid all these political threads like the plague - what will be will be