BREAKING NEWS

[Onelife]

It matters no how many police/soldiers you put out there, the bast*rds who commit these deplorable acts of wickedness will have plenty of soft targets to choose from should they wish to commit further crimes.

l'm Inclined to agree with qb in that the deployment of more boots on the ground is more of a public reassurance measure rather than being a deterrent to would be soft target paradise seeking nutters.

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[Onelife]

Am I wrong in getting a little fed up with, (as in this instance), taking in refugees from troubled lands, providing them with safety and security, a home and welfare only for them or their offspring to feed the hand that fed them. Not for the first time these radicals have come into a country, they basically despise, because it's a better bet than the country they have left.
If we intervene in the middle east we are wrong. We are wrong if we don't intervene. In the meantime the middle east is a breeding ground for terrorists.
I have no problem with immigrants or refugees coming into our country but only on the understanding they accept our culture, our way of life and they make every attempt to integrate into our society. To a great extent this has not happened.
Off now to get my political correctness tablet...................

Hi foxy.....you are absolutely correct in all that you say but you along with me, and a few million others know this will never happen as long as we have governments who turn a blind eye to what they know is happening right in front of their eyes.

If there is ever to be a solution to this warped ideology then our government needs to grow some balls and put into practices the points you have made. Once this has been put into place the government needs to have a 'decades' long plan in which the goal should be one of education, integration the eradication of discrimination including sexual discrimination against Muslim women by their own faith.

[Dancing Queen]

Call me a cynic and I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but I do wonder how much of this high-profile armed police and military presence is politically motivated? Government wanting to be seen to react strongly to the terror threat?

You're a cynic. I agree about the media stuff but I assume the intelligence services and police know a lot more than they're telling us and the police and military response will be based on that rather than politics

I don't doubt the intelligence services know far more than they are telling us but I do agree with cubie to a degree, high profile police and military presence .. why now ??

Why? Surely because 22 people just died and the bomb maker is still out there somewhere maybe with another bomb and another martyr lined up.

Well obviously Merv but why did 22 innocent people have to die before the government react, my question 'why now' was clearly meant as surely it can't be anything to do with the forthcoming elections .. cynical - indeed I am !!

As you say we assume the intelligence services and police know a lot more than they are telling us, if this is true then why are these 'scum' still walking our streets, personally I don't care about their human rights and I doubt the parents of those murdered in Monday nights atrocity do either, I appreciate there are a lot of nice law abiding Muslims living in the UK who are as shocked as we are but it's about time someone took a stand and removed any of these people who come even slightly under suspicion, not PC well no it isn't but neither is murdering innocent people !!!

[Mervyn and Trish]

I agree Jo. But trying telling that to the Human Rights lawyers. Law abiding peace loving people don't have human rights apparently. Only scum. How long did it take to deport Hook Hand? One reason I voted Brexit.

[david63]

Having watched Question Time last night (which for once was a good reasoned debate and not about political "point scoring") the overwhelming conclusion was that to eradicate these terrorists it will have to be done from the inside and from the bottom up within the Muslim community. I suspect, though, that these people (using the term in its broadest sense) although within the Muslim community on paper are very much on the fringes and are not "active" within the community, which will make it difficult to reason with them.

However I cannot see how Corbyn's latest outburst is going to help anyone and, in my opinion, is totally out of place and is designed for political point scoring.

[CaroleF]

Surely one problem with these people who are 'of interest' to the police and security services is that they cannot be arrested and locked up until they actually commit a crime. Police can't just go and arrest someone because they think they may commit a crime or an atrocity - they have to have evidence and be able to prosecute them. I heard recently how many agents it would take to keep observation on an individual 24 hours a day, can't remember the total but it was huge. Multiply this by the number of people who are 'of interest' and it becomes obvious why they can't do it, even if police numbers are increased. As has been said before the police and security agents have to be lucky 24/7, the terrorists only have to be lucky once. I'm sure there are many plots that have been prevented but we just don't hear about them. I know that's of no comfort to those who have been affected by this dreadful, wicked act.

[david63]

It really would not matter if all of the "persons of interest" were followed/watched 24/7 there will always be one who is not on the radar who will be a perpetrator - in fact the terrorists would deliberately draw attention to some of their number in order for others to go about unwatched.

[qbman1]

Anyone else think the media are milking this a bit ? Yes, I know it's a serious and important event but the constant analysis of the bomb, bomber/family and even worse, the victims cannot be tolerable for the families of the dead and injured and anyone affected by the atrocity. I'm not suggesting we forget about it or sweep it under the carpet but devoting entire radio and tv shows to it plus 16 page features in the newspapers just cannot be right.

I thought the same on day two. They all go over and over the same stuff.

The lady has a point.....

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[Mervyn and Trish]

When I was at the BBC it was certainly policy that bomb threats and hoaxes received no coverage unless they had caused sufficient disruption that they couldn't be ignored. The principle was not to give publicity to those who sought to make our lives difficult.

Clearly an atrocity such as Manchester falls a long way outside that policy but I do agree that once the event has been reported there comes a time to not mention it unless there is a significant development. Such as finding the bomb maker.

[Dancing Queen]

Surely one problem with these people who are 'of interest' to the police and security services is that they cannot be arrested and locked up until they actually commit a crime. Police can't just go and arrest someone because they think they may commit a crime or an atrocity - they have to have evidence and be able to prosecute them. I heard recently how many agents it would take to keep observation on an individual 24 hours a day, can't remember the total but it was huge. Multiply this by the number of people who are 'of interest' and it becomes obvious why they can't do it, even if police numbers are increased. As has been said before the police and security agents have to be lucky 24/7, the terrorists only have to be lucky once. I'm sure there are many plots that have been prevented but we just don't hear about them. I know that's of no comfort to those who have been affected by this dreadful, wicked act.

In theory no the police/security services can't just lock someone up because they are 'of interest' but when 22 innocent people ( mainly children ) die and we are now told the murderer was 'known' obviously not well enough to have him under observation it's about time some law was passed which allowed these extremists to be fully investigated and locked up while it is being done, I don't accept it can't be done surely each and every one of us have the right to be safe in our own Country and it's up to the government to make sure that happens, if they hadn't been so lax in the past then maybe we wouldn't find ourselves in this position now, I appreciate many of these 'murderers' were born here but if they wish to support people like ISIS well let them get on with it and let the government ship them out to live with them because we certainly don't want them here !!

I don't care if it's not the politically correct thing to do, if it's impossible to observe with the manpower available then there needs to be a Plan B or are we all supposed to sit back and wait for the next atrocity and just accept 'they were known to the police' sorry but I don't find that acceptable.

[Manoverboard]

If they are ' known ' for suspicious activity regarding terrorism then they should be ' chipped ' and be tracked electronically so the forces that be can pinpoint them 24/7.

Firstly we leave the EU and their Judicial interference and then we start to get tough on these characters.

( Not so ) Simples.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Brings a whole new meaning to Chip and Pin! But I agree. Something less consuming of manpower has to be done. I also agree that if someone travels to fight with IS or whatever they're called today they should be prohibited from returning.

[Dancing Queen]

If they are ' known ' for suspicious activity regarding terrorism then they should be ' chipped ' and be tracked electronically so the forces that be can pinpoint them 24/7.

Firstly we leave the EU and their Judicial interference and then we start to get tough on these characters.

( Not so ) Simples.

We can but hope Moby but somehow I don't ever see it happening, far too many do-gooder's who believe these filth can be reformed

[david63]

One has to wonder if national ID cards would have any affect with monitoring people!

[oldbluefox]

I see no reason at all why we can't have identity cards. In fact I would take it a step further and register every child's DNA from birth, register everybody else's DNA including immigrants coming into the country. That way if anybody collapses, has an accident or forgets who they are their identity is quickly established on the database, with the added benefit any criminals leaving behind traces of their DNA could also be identified.
Of course it won't happen. I can see the left-leaning luvvies getting all hot under the collar at the mere thought of it but just think of the amount of time saved in tracking down who is who.
It amazes me that in Europe the carrying of ID cards is taken for granted in many countries yet we went into meltdown from the moment the idea was mooted here. Have we really gone soft?

[david63]

Have we really gone soft?

Is that a multiple choice answer?

If we had ID cards then you have to carry them 24/7 - anyone found without one, without a valid reason, gets an immediate month's prison sentence - go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect £200. That way the police could round up as many suspects as they wanted.

[oldbluefox]

Have we really gone soft?

Is that a multiple choice answer?

No you get one chance and one only!!
Funny how people nowadays can carry a mobile phone (seemingly all except me) and find difficulty in being parted from it. On the phone they have all manner of personal and financial details yet the country went into meltdown when ID cards were mentioned. You can't be expecting people to carry those, they said. Fine them enough and they'd soon get used to it.
It's a funny old world 'Arry!!!

[oldbluefox]

Over in the Fatherland we always had to carry our ID cards plus DM20 (pre Euro). The DM20 was to pay any on-the-spot fines you might incur, )like crossing a lights controlled pedestrian crossing against the red man) otherwise you could find yourself down at the local clink on a charge of vagrancy. Nobody seemed to find that a problem.
Talk about the namby pamby state. We need to man up because we create our own problems.

Now, would you like me to tell you how I would sort out the NHS? I could but I would be going off topic and that would never be right.

[Stephen]

Why is it we all rest in piece but we can't all live in piece!

[Manoverboard]

.... the answer to that is dead simple.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Terror threat level now reduced.

[Dancing Queen]

I see no reason at all why we can't have identity cards. In fact I would take it a step further and register every child's DNA from birth, register everybody else's DNA including immigrants coming into the country. That way if anybody collapses, has an accident or forgets who they are their identity is quickly established on the database, with the added benefit any criminals leaving behind traces of their DNA could also be identified.
Of course it won't happen. I can see the left-leaning luvvies getting all hot under the collar at the mere thought of it but just think of the amount of time saved in tracking down who is who.
It amazes me that in Europe the carrying of ID cards is taken for granted in many countries yet we went into meltdown from the moment the idea was mooted here. Have we really gone soft?

Nor me Foxy in fact I chose to change my driving licence to a photograph one specifically to give me photo ID and of course it's very helpful when purchasing alcohol and you are continually asked to prove you are over 25 I think what a lot of people objected to was they were going to be expected to pay for it and that I do disagree with but other than that reason what is there to object to if you have nothing to hide, what you say makes complete sense .. if it needs to be 'sold' to certain people then sell it as the benefits it could have rather than the negatives.

I'm not old enough to remember but weren't ID cards issued in WW2, surely what is happening today is still war .. a war of terrorism so why do we need anyone's approval for the issue of ID cards, any small step to keeping our country safe(r) is a step in the right direction imo.

[Dancing Queen]

Terror threat level now reduced.

Any reason given or do they think the nine people they have in custody warrant it ( yes I am being sarcastic )

[GillD46]

Hear, hear!

[oldbluefox]

I would suspect they had intelligence that there could be a follow up bomb. We will never know and never really find out as it could blow the cover of those working under cover.
On the subject of ID cards of course criminals wouldn't like them. On the card could be held court appearances, criminal record, bail conditions, etc etc. On the other hand it could contain blood group, allergies, medical needs, medications etc which could be a true life saver in an emergency and would save valuable time in getting the right treatment.
I agree you should not be required to pay for them but they would be a cheap investment considering the amount of time they could save. When you look at the waste of money on other failed projects ID cards could be a positive move forward.
For that reason they will never happen.