Current Affairs

[oldbluefox]

Pleased to see that Mrs May has finally nailed the lie that with Brexit all EU nationals currently living in UK will have to go home, a lie perpetrated by the doom mongers. We now await a response from the EU on the fate of Brits living in the EU.
A good QT on BBC last night saw Betty from Plymouth giving Gina Miller a hard time on the issue of negotiation, and Betty was absolutely right. To add to the fun a dedicated and vociferous Corbynista was given a red card and asked to leave after repeatedly interrupting the debates.

[david63]

Pleased to see that Mrs May has finally nailed the lie that with Brexit all EU nationals currently living in UK will have to go home, a lie perpetrated by the doom mongers. We now await a response from the EU on the fate of Brits living in the EU.

Ah but - Labour are saying it is "too little, too late"!
If I was TM I would be saying "stuff the job - you sort it Jeremy"

A good QT on BBC last night saw Betty from Plymouth giving Gina Miller a hard time on the issue of negotiation, and Betty was absolutely right. To add to the fun a dedicated and vociferous Corbynista was given a red card and asked to leave after repeatedly interrupting the debates.

I have given up on QT - I am fed up with the slanging match that goes on (sorry to be sexist - usually with the femal members of the panel) and David Dimbleby being rude to everyone.

[Jan Rosser]

I don't normally comment on politics - I rarely read this topic but feel I can contribute from the point of view of a British citizen living and working in the EU - my son. He has lived and worked in Luxembourg for the last 18 years most of that time for the European Investment Bank. He is married to a Luxembourg citizen (she incidentally has dual Luxembourg/Spanish passports) and my two grandsons have dual nationality - British and Luxembourgish. He has contemplated taking out Luxembourg nationality himself over the years and in fact passed an exam to gain a passport including speaking the Luxembourgish language but didn't carry it through mainly because of losing allowances. He is following the talks about UK citizens working in the EU with obvious interest and has no worries about losing his job or having to move because rules have changed in that having a Luxembourgish wife and children born in the country now gives him automatic citizenship but quite a few of his fellow workers are thinking of applying for citizenship if things do not go their way. Incidentally the day after the referendum the President of the Bank spoke to the staff to reassure them their jobs would be ok but naturally they will worry until things are sorted out. One more thing - the result was not what they expected - they were all completely gobsmacked at the Bank.

[towny44]

Those are interesting comments Jan from someone with specific knowledge of the subject, TBH I have never thought that this was likely to be the sort of problem for any EU or British national that the media and the pro EU lobby in the UK made it out to be. But it was handled like a hot potato by politicians on both sides of the debate, and used as some sort of points scoring topic, lets hope that the remaining negotiations can be handled in the same even handed approach that TM wants for this.

[screwy]

Mr. Juncker says the British proposals are insufficent...

[Jack Staff]

Mr. Juncker says the British proposals are insufficent...

Found myself agreeing with a UKIP MEP (on Sky) earlier that her offer was too little too late.

[oldbluefox]

My understanding from a Press release of 29/11/16 is that early on Mrs May offered reciprocal arrangements for EU nationals in UK and British nationals in Europe but "The EU stands ready to do so, but that can only happen on the condition that Art. 50 has been triggered" (Source - Donald Tusk).

[Onelife]

Mr. Juncker says the British proposals are insufficent...

No surprises there then Screwy, Junker is a complete d***head who holds grudges and will do everything posible to derail UK negotiations.

For what it's worth l think Theresa May is doing a terrific job considering what she has had to deal with over this past few weeks. Not least because she is having to withstand a barrage of BBC negativity and bias reporting.

I'm also sick to death of listening to Corbyn's "l can do it better magic wand prophecies" ...what our country needs now is political consensus which allows the democratically elected Government to do the job it was elected to do.

Brexit will happen so remainers need to stop whinging and start getting behind our country/goverment to secure the best Brexit deal possible.

Whilst Theresa May, may come across as a being a little socially awkward l would much rather her than scheming bullshitters Corbyn and Mcdonald doing the negotiations.

United we stand, devided we will definitely fall.

[oldbluefox]

Well said OL. Personally I am getting fed up with all the negativity and the lies which are being perpetrated by the left wing press and media. Mrs May was asked if she would rather no deal than a bad deal. Considering the reaction to her response I can only presume those not in power would accept a bad deal. I wish her luck and hope she stands firm since I dread to think what the alternative would be.

[Jack Staff]

United we stand, devided we will definitely fall.

Already happening...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 03631.html

[oldbluefox]

United we stand, devided we will definitely fall.

Already happening...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 03631.html

Interesting what The Independent misses out.........................
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06 ... rk-brexit/

[Mervyn and Trish]

Mr. Juncker says the British proposals are insufficent...

Given that the proposals give the EU migrants pretty much the same rights as a British citizen after a 5 year residence what the hell does he want?

Every time this odious man opens his mouth he confirms how right we are to be getting away from him and his like.

[Manoverboard]

Mr. Juncker says the British proposals are insufficent...

Given that the proposals give the EU migrants pretty much the same rights as a British citizen after a 5 year residence what the hell does he want?

Every time this odious man opens his mouth he confirms how right we are to be getting away from him and his like.

He wants the EU Jurys(Prudence) to adjudicate on the legal finer points, we on the other hands do not .... simples

[david63]

I thought this was a "negotiation" so why is every Tom, d**k and Harry sticking their oar in. If this is a taste of what is to come then "no deal is better than a bad deal" is what we will end up with.

[Stephen]

Juncker, you arragant pr*t. Get your head out of your ar*se and start being realistic instead of thinking of your bank account.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Mr. Juncker says the British proposals are insufficent...

Given that the proposals give the EU migrants pretty much the same rights as a British citizen after a 5 year residence what the hell does he want?

Every time this odious man opens his mouth he confirms how right we are to be getting away from him and his like.

He wants the EU Jurys(Prudence) to adjudicate on the legal finer points, we on the other hands do not .... simples

I'm sure he does. But since we won't be in the EU the EU court will be irrelevant. What part of that doesn't he understand? Would he expect the EU court to rule on European''s rights in Mexico?

[david63]

Would he expect the EU court to rule on European''s rights in Mexico?

Nah - The Donald will be doing that!!

[Kendhni]

After the last election result the UK has been left in a really weak position. The EU does not have to give an inch since it knows the lack of a strong government in the UK will mean the UK will give concessions - the electorate only has itself to blame.

However there is no sense in people get all hyper over nothing at the minute. This is only the very start of the negotiations, positions and demands at this point are irrelevant, the only thing that matters is the final positions. At that point the real whinging will start and the cries of 'that isn't what I voted for' will be deafening - but then, as I have always said, on June 23rd 2016, aka ignorance day, nobody had a clue what they were voting for.

[towny44]

After the last election result the UK has been left in a really weak position. The EU does not have to give an inch since it knows the lack of a strong government in the UK will mean the UK will give concessions - the electorate only has itself to blame.

However there is no sense in people get all hyper over nothing at the minute. This is only the very start of the negotiations, positions and demands at this point are irrelevant, the only thing that matters is the final positions. At that point the real whinging will start and the cries of 'that isn't what I voted for' will be deafening - but then, as I have always said, on June 23rd 2016, aka ignorance day, nobody had a clue what they were voting for.

That's a bit harsh Ken, I knew full well that leaving the EU and negotiating a good deal would be very difficult, but I felt that the current direction of travel of the EU into a federal political union was not where I wanted to be. In 1975 I had voted to stay in a free trade economic community but Maastricht añd Lisbon changed all that, and as the EU rushed to absorb the old Warsaw pact countries I thought that Westminster's voice was being drowned out and along with the narrow view of preserving the Euro at all costs, I wanted none of this.

[Frank Manning]

The real truth is, that everyone knew what they thought they were voting for, but there were lots of variations, and none of the politicians on either side of the argument cared. Political expediency would have been the Victor whoever "won" the referendum. The Tories have now blown it big time by having another divisive election, the rationale behind it seemingly to neutralise the headbanging in her own party. Many of my friends see another election looming, possibly leading to yet another small majority for someone. All the referendum has achieved so far is an enhancement of the culture of populism, and of divisions in society.

[daib GC]

Mr. Juncker says the British proposals are insufficent...

Given that the proposals give the EU migrants pretty much the same rights as a British citizen after a 5 year residence what the hell does he want?

Every time this odious man opens his mouth he confirms how right we are to be getting away from him and his like.

He wants the EU Jurys(Prudence) to adjudicate on the legal finer points, we on the other hands do not .... simples

I'm sure he does. But since we won't be in the EU the EU court will be irrelevant. What part of that doesn't he understand? Would he expect the EU court to rule on European''s rights in Mexico?

But Merv, the EU and the European Court of Human Rights are not the same thing the court has 47 members and covers all of Europe not just the EU countries. We are leaving the EU not the EC.

[towny44]

Given that the proposals give the EU migrants pretty much the same rights as a British citizen after a 5 year residence what the hell does he want?

Every time this odious man opens his mouth he confirms how right we are to be getting away from him and his like.

He wants the EU Jurys(Prudence) to adjudicate on the legal finer points, we on the other hands do not .... simples

I'm sure he does. But since we won't be in the EU the EU court will be irrelevant. What part of that doesn't he understand? Would he expect the EU court to rule on European''s rights in Mexico?

But Merv, the EU and the European Court of Human Rights are not the same thing the court has 47 members and covers all of Europe not just the EU countries. We are leaving the EU not the EC.

Dai, these comments relate to the EU court of justice, which wants to retain its authority over the rights of EU citizens living in the UK.

[Kendhni]

After the last election result the UK has been left in a really weak position. The EU does not have to give an inch since it knows the lack of a strong government in the UK will mean the UK will give concessions - the electorate only has itself to blame.

However there is no sense in people get all hyper over nothing at the minute. This is only the very start of the negotiations, positions and demands at this point are irrelevant, the only thing that matters is the final positions. At that point the real whinging will start and the cries of 'that isn't what I voted for' will be deafening - but then, as I have always said, on June 23rd 2016, aka ignorance day, nobody had a clue what they were voting for.

That's a bit harsh Ken, I knew full well that leaving the EU and negotiating a good deal would be very difficult, but I felt that the current direction of travel of the EU into a federal political union was not where I wanted to be. In 1975 I had voted to stay in a free trade economic community but Maastricht añd Lisbon changed all that, and as the EU rushed to absorb the old Warsaw pact countries I thought that Westminster's voice was being drowned out and along with the narrow view of preserving the Euro at all costs, I wanted none of this.

I don't believe it is harsh ... nobody had any real idea what they were voting for (both remain and exit). I always thought that they should have explored both ideas prior to a referendum so that cards could be laid out on the table and people could vote from an informed point-of-view.

It appears that there has been a softening on the position and that the HoC and HoL will be allowed a vote on the outcome of the negotiations - however, with a much weakened minority government it is obvious Britain is not going to get the deal it could have hoped for so it wouldn't take much for those supporting 'remain' to demand and be granted that a vote goes back to the people. Given the referendum and the recent election has shown that many people are prone to voting negatively and prefer to give the establishment a two-fingered gesture rather than vote for what they want - it would be interesting to see how that would play out - and if the losing side would accept the result of that vote as the democratic wish of the people (having now become informed).

[Kendhni]

He wants the EU Jurys(Prudence) to adjudicate on the legal finer points, we on the other hands do not .... simples

I'm sure he does. But since we won't be in the EU the EU court will be irrelevant. What part of that doesn't he understand? Would he expect the EU court to rule on European''s rights in Mexico?

But Merv, the EU and the European Court of Human Rights are not the same thing the court has 47 members and covers all of Europe not just the EU countries. We are leaving the EU not the EC.

Dai, these comments relate to the EU court of justice, which wants to retain its authority over the rights of EU citizens living in the UK.

My answer to that is whether or not any other nation would allow another country to provide rights that supersede those of the country. As part of any standard trade agreement, various rights and legislation will become part of the negotiation as other countries will expect Britain to provide certain rights and put in place certain protocols for its citizens, working overseas, ... similarly Britain will expect those countries to put in place legislation and prototcols to protect its citizens when working/living overseas - which is why trade negotiations and deals take decades rather than years) ... If the EU thinks that its citizens, living and/or working in the UK, should have any additional or any lesser rights than those of the British beyond what is encapsulated within the trade agreement, then that would not be on.

[Mervyn and Trish]

The EC is separate from the EU but EU members are obliged to also recognise the EC. European countries which are outside the EC can do so if they wish. I believe voters indicated they do not wish! So I believe we will be leaving the EC