Current Affairs

[screwy]

Is it just me that thinks That Corbyn's antics are akin to the Nurenberg Rallies.? He certainly appears to whipping up a storm of Frenzy..

[Jack Staff]

Is it just me that thinks That Corbyn's antics are akin to the Nurenberg Rallies.? He certainly appears to whipping up a storm of Frenzy..

Well he has to keep up with Andrea Leadsom and here comments that broadcasters should be more 'patriotic', akin to Joseph Goebbels me thinks.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Samuel Johnson 1709-1784

[Mervyn and Trish]

I'm with you Screwy. He's very dangerous

[oldbluefox]

Leadsom was right. It would help in our negotiations if the country pulled together, and that includes broadcasters who come over as aggressive (towards some,but not all) in their questioning but get very precious if it looks like the tables could be turned.
As for Corbyn, I agree with Screwy.

[Jack Staff]

I'm with you Screwy. He's very dangerous

Why? What is he going to do?
Decimate the value of the Pound?
Turn our country into a laughing stock?
Ruin our international banking industry?
Cause our crops to rot in the fields?
Force the last of our car industry to relocate?
Stop wages from rising?
Cut benefits to the disabled?
Cut pensions?

[towny44]

I'm with you Screwy. He's very dangerous

Why? What is he going to do?
Decimate the value of the Pound?
Turn our country into a laughing stock?
Ruin our international banking industry?
Cause our crops to rot in the fields?
Force the last of our car industry to relocate?
Stop wages from rising?
Cut benefits to the disabled?
Cut pensions?

You're a strange one Jack, one minute you're saying you don't want to see Corbyn as PM, the next you're blaming the tories for every perceived problem.
Just who would you want to see forming the next government?

[Jack Staff]

You're a strange one Jack, one minute you're saying you don't want to see Corbyn as PM, the next you're blaming the tories for every perceived problem.
Just who would you want to see forming the next government?

Thank you for noticing. I was expecting a tirade of anti Corbyn comments.

Due to our antiquated electoral system the answer to your question is not this pro Brexit conservative government. I am not alone, which is why Corbyn did so well on the 8th June. Not because of who he is, but because of who he isn't.

[towny44]

You're a strange one Jack, one minute you're saying you don't want to see Corbyn as PM, the next you're blaming the tories for every perceived problem.
Just who would you want to see forming the next government?

Thank you for noticing. I was expecting a tirade of anti Corbyn comments.

Due to our antiquated electoral system the answer to your question is not this pro Brexit conservative government. I am not alone, which is why Corbyn did so well on the 8th June. Not because of who he is, but because of who he isn't.

I thought he did well because of his unfunded promises to the poor, his seduction of the new young voters with promises of free university tuition, as well as writing off the existing student debt. Any bremoaner who had studied Corbyn's past would surely have identified him as a closet brexiteer, and only a died in the wool labour bremoaner would have lauded his comments about maintaining the EU workers rights.
So not really a Remain manifesto which is why I am puzzled by his over achievement.

[Jack Staff]

You're a strange one Jack, one minute you're saying you don't want to see Corbyn as PM, the next you're blaming the tories for every perceived problem.
Just who would you want to see forming the next government?

Thank you for noticing. I was expecting a tirade of anti Corbyn comments.

Due to our antiquated electoral system the answer to your question is not this pro Brexit conservative government. I am not alone, which is why Corbyn did so well on the 8th June. Not because of who he is, but because of who he isn't.

I thought he did well because of his unfunded promises to the poor, his seduction of the new young voters with promises of free university tuition, as well as writing off the existing student debt. Any bremoaner who had studied Corbyn's past would surely have identified him as a closet brexiteer, and only a died in the wool labour bremoaner would have lauded his comments about maintaining the EU workers rights.
So not really a Remain manifesto which is why I am puzzled by his over achievement.

He could of promised anything or nothing. TM the PM made it a Brexit election and so it was. It is our electoral system that meant Corbyn was the only choice for those you call 'bremoaners'

[towny44]

Jack, I still do not understand why remain voters would think Labour was their only choice. They agreed that we were definitely leaving the EU, and that we would also need to leave the single market, although they did state that we needed to protect the economy to safeguard jobs and living standards, which was exactly the same as TM saying she wanted the best deal for the UK.
So please explain why any right leaning remainer would be forced to think a Labour vote was their only choice.

[barney]

The Guardian, which is the staunchest left wing main stream publication, spent months vilifying Corbyn prior to the election.
Being one of the few anti-brexit papers, they chucked their hat in with Tim Farron as he was the only one campaigning on No Brexit.

When it became clear that Corbyn was not only doing ok but actually quite well, they changed track.
LibDems gambled on attracting folk like our good friend Jack Staff, but in the end they crashed and burned with a tiny percentage of votes and only three additional MPs. As we know, Tiny Tim fell on his sword.

So to cut to the chase, May was a bloody useless Home Secretary.
She is proving to be a pretty hopeless Prime minister.

The ridiculous discussion about Hard Brexit, Soft Brexit or even a Rainbow Brexit are irrelevant

The EU are and always have been in the driving seat.
They are a protectionist cartel, no matter what anyone says.
We were part of the cartel and now longer wish to be.
They will throw up every obstacle possible to make it impossible to get any agreements on anything.

There are only two possible outcomes.
1. Leave in 2019 with no agreements and become a 'third country' (Their Phrase)
2. Stay in (which is what they ultimately want)

Because any agreement is impossible, the UK government must invite all existing EU citizens to remain, should they wish, but on our terms.
The choice is then theirs.
Some will leave, may more will stay.

Let's get one thing clear.
The EU is not for negotiating. They are used to dictating and don't know any other way.

The UK should be preparing now for that eventuality.

So, No deal. No money. Clean break.

[Jack Staff]

Jack, I still do not understand why remain voters would think Labour was their only choice. They agreed that we were definitely leaving the EU, and that we would also need to leave the single market, although they did state that we needed to protect the economy to safeguard jobs and living standards, which was exactly the same as TM saying she wanted the best deal for the UK.
So please explain why any right leaning remainer would be forced to think a Labour vote was their only choice.

Stopping TM the PMs coronation was the imperative.
You think that a pro EU (LibDem/Green/Plaid/SNP/ coalition) majority was a possibility? Of course not.
The best deal for the UK is the one we already have. The election result means that has not (yet) been taken away from us, contrary to what the Conservatives thought would happen when they called the election.

[towny44]

Jack, I still do not understand why remain voters would think Labour was their only choice. They agreed that we were definitely leaving the EU, and that we would also need to leave the single market, although they did state that we needed to protect the economy to safeguard jobs and living standards, which was exactly the same as TM saying she wanted the best deal for the UK.
So please explain why any right leaning remainer would be forced to think a Labour vote was their only choice.

Stopping TM the PMs coronation was the imperative.
You think that a pro EU (LibDem/Green/Plaid/SNP/ coalition) majority was a possibility? Of course not.
The best deal for the UK is the one we already have. The election result means that has not (yet) been taken away from us, contrary to what the Conservatives thought would happen when they called the election.

Well clearly that worked, but I am still not certain that many traditional Tory voters, even Remain ones, would vote Labour in these circumstances, a weakened TM is far less likely to achieve a satisfactory Brexit deal, as a result everyone ends up poorer. I cannot envisage the Tories and DUP voting to allow another referendum to vote on the deal achieved, similarly they will return any legislation to the Lords if they attempt to achieve this, and the Lords have virtually accepted that they will only return bills once to the commons.
Hence this type of vote has only weakened the outcome rather than provide the possibility of overturning the 2016 referendum vote, is that really what you wanted Jack.

[Jack Staff]

The Guardian, which is the staunchest left wing main stream publication, spent months vilifying Corbyn prior to the election.
Being one of the few anti-brexit papers, they chucked their hat in with Tim Farron as he was the only one campaigning on No Brexit.

They were pro EU

When it became clear that Corbyn was not only doing ok but actually quite well, they changed track.
LibDems gambled on attracting folk like our good friend Jack Staff, but in the end they crashed and burned with a tiny percentage of votes and only three additional MPs. As we know, Tiny Tim fell on his sword.

They were still pro EU

So to cut to the chase, May was a bl**dy useless Home Secretary.
She is proving to be a pretty hopeless Prime minister.

The ridiculous discussion about Hard Brexit, Soft Brexit or even a Rainbow Brexit are irrelevant

The EU are and always have been in the driving seat.
They are a protectionist cartel, no matter what anyone says.
We were part of the cartel and now longer wish to be.

Debateable

They will throw up every obstacle possible to make it impossible to get any agreements on anything.

They have simply said 'If you want to leave, these are the terms'.

There are only two possible outcomes.
1. Leave in 2019 with no agreements and become a 'third country' (Their Phrase)
2. Stay in (which is what they ultimately want)

Because any agreement is impossible, the UK government must invite all existing EU citizens to remain, should they wish, but on our terms.
The choice is then theirs.
Some will leave, may more will stay.

DD has basically agreed the terms that were already in place.

Let's get one thing clear.
The EU is not for negotiating. They are used to dictating and don't know any other way.

Why should they pander to us? We are the ones who want to leave.

The UK should be preparing now for that eventuality.
So, No deal. No money. Clean break.

If were to run away without paying our dues, we will not only lose our major market, no other country in its' right mind would do a trade deal with such an untrustworthy country.

[daib GC]

Jack, I still do not understand why remain voters would think Labour was their only choice. They agreed that we were definitely leaving the EU, and that we would also need to leave the single market, although they did state that we needed to protect the economy to safeguard jobs and living standards, which was exactly the same as TM saying she wanted the best deal for the UK.
So please explain why any right leaning remainer would be forced to think a Labour vote was their only choice.

Stopping TM the PMs coronation was the imperative.
You think that a pro EU (LibDem/Green/Plaid/SNP/ coalition) majority was a possibility? Of course not.
The best deal for the UK is the one we already have. The election result means that has not (yet) been taken away from us, contrary to what the Conservatives thought would happen when they called the election.

Well clearly that worked, but I am still not certain that many traditional Tory voters, even Remain ones, would vote Labour in these circumstances, a weakened TM is far less likely to achieve a satisfactory Brexit deal, as a result everyone ends up poorer. I cannot envisage the Tories and DUP voting to allow another referendum to vote on the deal achieved, similarly they will return any legislation to the Lords if they attempt to achieve this, and the Lords have virtually accepted that they will only return bills once to the commons.
Hence this type of vote has only weakened the outcome rather than provide the possibility of overturning the 2016 referendum vote, is that really what you wanted Jack.

Traditional voters of either party will not vote for the other but I beleave that there are only between 30% and 35% of those who would vote would vote for each main party. Making a maximum of 70%. The rest are floaters, going to Lib Dems, UKIP Greens etc. It is that group of people who decide who is going to rule the country not the hard left or the hard right. Clearly it is the group in the middle. At the moment June going into July 2017 JC is ahead of TM in winning the support of those in the middle.

[barney]

"They have simply said 'If you want to leave, these are the terms'. "

That totally reinfoces the point Jack!

'If you want to leave, these are the terms'

Am I the only one who can see the ridiculousness of that statement.

How on earth can they dictate the terms of our leaving ????

It's like the Hotel California. You can check out but you can never leave.

And as for you statement of us paying our 'dues' ?
I think we've contributed over and above for decades and will be furious if our Ministers even consider any type of leaving fee.
We are committed to contribute fully until be leave in March 2019. That is all.
If the EU has longer term financial commitments, that is up to the remaining countries to find the money (or reduce spending)

I'm quite amazed that there is still a small but vocal minority wishing our (and their) country all sorts of bad things simply to reinforce their argument that they lost last June.

Opinion is fine. Everyone has one.
But, so much on this subject is being put forward as statements of fact when nobody really knows the final outcome.

My opinion is that outside the EU, the UK will be fine.
We are a resourceful and resilient nation. Always have been and always will be.
Of course it will be different. that was the whole point of the vote. for change.

Jack Staff, do me a favour and please don't break this down into tiny points to respond to.
It makes you look a bit of a pedant.

[Jack Staff]

Jack Staff, do me a favour and please don't break this down into tiny points to respond to.
It makes you look a bit of a pedant.

noun: pedant; plural noun: pedants

a person who is excessively concerned with minor details and rules or with displaying academic learning.

In the upcoming negotiations 'the devil will be in the detail'.

[Manoverboard]

Jack Staff, do me a favour and please don't break this down into tiny points to respond to.
It makes you look a bit of a pedant.

noun: pedant; plural noun: pedants

a person who is excessively concerned with minor details and rules or with displaying academic learning.

In the upcoming negotiations 'the devil will be in the detail'.

so .... some sort of nit-picking smart a*se then ?

By jove we've got it

[screwy]

Jack Staff, do me a favour and please don't break this down into tiny points to respond to.
It makes you look a bit of a pedant.

noun: pedant; plural noun: pedants

a person who is excessively concerned with minor details and rules or with displaying academic learning.

In the upcoming negotiations 'the devil will be in the detail'.

so .... some sort of nit-picking smart a*se then ?

By jove we've got it

[Jack Staff]

Jack Staff, do me a favour and please don't break this down into tiny points to respond to.
It makes you look a bit of a pedant.

noun: pedant; plural noun: pedants

a person who is excessively concerned with minor details and rules or with displaying academic learning.

In the upcoming negotiations 'the devil will be in the detail'.

so .... some sort of nit-picking smart a*se then ?

By jove we've got it

If you think I'm nit-picking, wait until the real negotiations start.
I am much happier being called a pedant, rather than say Luddite, which may be appropriate for leavers

noun: Luddite; plural noun: Luddites
a member of any of the bands of English workers who destroyed machinery, especially in cotton and woollen mills, which they believed was threatening their jobs (1811–16).
derogatory
a person opposed to increased industrialization or new technology.
"a small-minded Luddite resisting progress"

If nothing else, I hope I have raised the standard of name calling on the forum

[oldbluefox]

.......................
The more Jack argues the more he convinces me that I made the right choice.

[Manoverboard]

.......................
The more Jack argues the more he convinces me that I made the right choice.

Exactly !!

Did you know that Luddites hate change so would probably have voted to ' Remain ' whereas us entrepreneurial types would deffo have voted to ' leave ' because change is what we seek ... just saying.

ps ....we have just signed Will Hughes from the Rams, makes a change does that

[Mervyn and Trish]

.......................
The more Jack argues the more he convinces me that I made the right choice.

Yes he's a great advocate for Brexit.

He's the living embodiment of how I felt about the whole thing. My gut and heart said vote leave but my head really wanted the Remain campaign to convince me to stay. In the end they actually convinced me my gut and heart were right. And everything I've heard since does so too.

Maybe Jack is actually an undercover Brexit campaigner and double agent!

[david63]

At the end of the day it makes little difference whether we stay or we go, with whatever deal we may or may not get, as there are more major factors in the world economy that will shape the future - but whatever they are everything in the UK will be blamed on Brexit, and the bad deal (whether it is or not) that TM negotiated, for the next 20+ years

[oldbluefox]

Absolutely! Whatever happens to this country of ours will be blamed on the Tories and Brexit.The Remainers are still trotting out the same arguments and coming up with the same doomladen prophesies. They are making comment on outcome before negotiations have been started, let alone concluded.
My fear is that we will end up with Remain under a different name - still part of the single market, still part of the customs union, still at the behest of an EU legal system which supercedes our own judiciary and still paying to support this broken down machine, but 'Let's called it Brexit, chaps!!!' A nice compromise for Mrs Krankie eh?
If we leave with no deal I wonder what the impact will be on the German and French car industries, French and Italian agriculture, Spanish and French wine growers. Since we import more than we export Brexit without a deal will affect more than our own industry so I suggest it is in the EU's interests to come to some agreement and stop acting like a child with a smacked backside!!!