Current Affairs

[oldbluefox]

Of course it's about money because when the UK leaves the EU there will be a massive hole in their finances. Either the richer countries will have to stump up more or the beneficiaries within the EU will get less.
The EU is currently adopting a tough stance and refusing to budge on any negotiations because the last thing they want is for other nations to follow the UK out of this extravagant little club. However if we fail to get some sort of agreement on trade I wonder how long it will be before the likes of Mercedes, VW, Seat, Citroen, Peugeot, Fiat & Co look to create their own deals or face massive problems with their work forces; not to mention the vineyards and multiple other industries involved in trade with UK. As it stands we import more from the EU than we export to them so are they really going to cut us off from all trade deals? I think not. And the imposition of tariffs will only exacerbate the problem.
I doubt the EU will produce a break down of the 'divorce' bill because they are being deliberately vindictive to make negotiations as awkward as they can. We pay them what is legally owed to them along with any justified moral obligations.
Pleased to see that Jack agrees we should be paying our share for what we receive. However we should not be subsidising the rest of the EU.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Hi Barney,
Rather than a hotel bill, try thinking of it as a restaurant bill, where we have had a meal with 27 other friends.
We decide we need to leave early.
There is no legal obligation for us to pay anything, as long as the restaurant is paid at the end of the evening.
There is obviously a moral obligation to pay our share, especially as the other 27 are our friends and we wish to continue that relationship in some form or other in future.

Except Jack we have been paying our share for the meal as we go along.

Now the remaining countries have decided to have a couple of brandies after we leave and expect us to pay for them too, even though we won't be having one. Oh and they won't show us the menu so we can check the price is correct.

[Stephen]

Just leg it out the loo window.

[towny44]

Hi Barney,
Rather than a hotel bill, try thinking of it as a restaurant bill, where we have had a meal with 27 other friends.
We decide we need to leave early.
There is no legal obligation for us to pay anything, as long as the restaurant is paid at the end of the evening.
There is obviously a moral obligation to pay our share, especially as the other 27 are our friends and we wish to continue that relationship in some form or other in future.

What happens Jack when after you leave your friends decide to order several bottles of vintage champers at several thousand pounds a bottle. Will you be happy to pay your 27th of the restaurant bill then?

It seems that Merv and I think along the same lines.............. except for that calamitous cruise line that is.

[Jack Staff]

What happens Jack when after you leave your friends decide to order several bottles of vintage champers at several thousand pounds a bottle. Will you be happy to pay your 27th of the restaurant bill then?

It seems that Merv and I think along the same lines.............. except for that calamitous cruise line that is.

I actually agree with you both on this. We have all been in the situation where someone says 'Just split the bill 28 ways' and someone else says 'but I didn't have a starter'.
So it's negotiation time. We will see how good Diddy Davis actually is.
However I do think this is all a distraction. The bill is actually quite small, when we should be considering the bigger picture of the future of our country.

"Small you say Jack? £50 Billion small?"
Yes, it is. That's just 50 bribes to another political party to stay in power, or 16 aircraft carriers.
While it is more than I have in my wallet, it's not the kind of cash that will keep the EU going for very long. It only keeps the NHS going for six months.
[I just guessed at £50Billion]

[barney]

I'm 100% sure that the UK will honour any serious commitment Jack.
Actually that is exactly what Davis said on Sunday.

I for one, am happy that he is playing a bit of hardball. As a tax payer, and I assume that you are as well, his obligation is to represent us and get the best possible value for all of us.
He wasn't (and nor were any other MPs) elected to represent Europe.

What used to termed as Remoaners has slowly morphed into Brexit Deniers.

It's happening mate, in March 2019 and I want ALL of our representatives to be fighting tooth and nail for THIS country.

I'm fully aware that a small minority would love it to fail, so they could say 'told you so'
I'm not one of them.
It was a fair and open vote.
One side won, the other lost.
There was a time when that was respected.

I usually ask any staunch Remainer who they voted for at the last election.
This is because one party stood on an anti-Brexit ticket and that was the LibDems.
Did you vote LibDem Jack, because both the main parties stood on a firm Leave ticket and won over 80% of the vote.

After March 2019, surely one of the parties will stand on a 'let's join the EU' ticket.
Let's see if that happens and let's see how well they do.

[Jack Staff]

We will see how good Davis is. Personally I have no faith, so far he has caved in on most things. What happened to his "row of the summer"?
You are welcome to call me a Brexit denier. We will be in the EU in twenty years and I doubt we will ever leave.
I only represent myself, along with many others, who are fighting tooth and nail for THIS country.
Yes, we want Brexit to fail, so our children have a future and I have a pension and a health service.
The vote was actually fair and open, but built on lies and in any case only advisory.
In the last election the two main parties both chased the 52%. Labour have now realised they did so well in that election because they weren't the Brexit Conservatives. Hence their recent change in position. Corbyn wants to be PM more than he hates the EU.
Before March 2019 Labour will join the Libdems, Plaid, SNP, Alliance, Sinn Féin on a 'lets stay' ticket.
Let's see if that happens and let's see how well they do.

[Jack Staff]

Our Glorious leader TM the PM is going to make a big Brexit speech on 21st September.
How do I know? Because it was announced by the leader of the European Parliament.
Good to know she is in control eh?

[barney]

Good to know that you believe everything that comes out of Verhofstadt's mouth

"Before March 2019 Labour will join the Libdems, Plaid, SNP, Alliance, Sinn Féin on a 'lets stay' ticket."

Could you also let us have next week's winning numbers on the Lottery, Jack ?

Seriously, it's only now that poor old Barnier is understanding what he has taken on.

He has no mandate to negotiate, but simply to put forward the Commissioners stance.

In the past, and when involving weaker nations, this has always been enough, but dealing with the UK, a major world economy has somewhat tipped the balance and they are clearly scrambling around for ideas.

They said they wanted clarity so we gave them clarity.
Out of the single market.
Out of the Customs union.
Out of the ECJ.
End to free movement.

What on earth could be clearer?

So, they then ask for more clarity ??????

Everyone knows that a compromise will be reached but the EU need to save face, to actively discourage others.

My personal opinion and I'll stress that it's only my opinion, is that once other countries within the EU see the UK doing pretty well outside, some will think differently about it all.
Particularly the gross contributors.
The supplicant nations have it pretty good at the moment but eventually, as Ireland are now finding out, that can change.

It does really beg the question as to how most of the world (outside the mighty EU) even manage to survive ??

[Jack Staff]

Barney, I admire your blind faith.
Show me some actual evidence and you might convince me.

[barney]

Confidence in our great country will suffice.
There can be no evidence in advance.
That is contradictory.
What we do have plenty of evidence is the massive failings of the EU so far.
Germany has done very well but ............... that's pretty much it.
Ask the millions of Spanish/Portuguese/Greek youngsters who have never had a job how well it has all worked for them.

Far too many are willing to talk us down all of the time.
The UK is a great country.

For some inexplicable reason, and it only seems to pertain to this issue, some folk take the stance that everything EU is great and everything UK is bad.

So, could anyone answer as to why over 3 million of them have come here to live and work while having the chance to stay in their own glorious European Utopias.

Take the blinkers off Jack.
There is a big world out there, most of which do not belong to the EU.
The insular protectionism of the EU has held us back for years.
Once over the initial teething problems, the UK will be absolutely fine.
I'm hoping that the EU will be as well, as we need strong trading partners.

[Jack Staff]

So just the blind faith then.

[qbman1]

I call this an impasse then

We have "blind faith" on one side.......

and blind pessimism on the other

Time to move on methinks

[oldbluefox]

Considering we have been in the EU for the past 40 years I do not feel it has been a resounding success for this country,. Maybe it has for certain pockets of the land but not for the rest especially considering how much we have ploughed into it. And there are other areas of the EU where it has not worked either.

[towny44]

So just the blind faith then.

Not all Jack, I voted to join the EEC because it was a common market free trade area, which I do think still works well. But the gradual evolution into a political union with yet another bureaucracy on top of it, which has grown massively as it tries, but fails, to justify its existence has gradually sapped my will to live, or at least continue to live in the EU.
Immigration is not really the issue, but controlling it and ensuring only the useful workers are admitted is, but probably the last straw was the creation of the Euro, and the continued bending of the EU fabric to ensure that this strange mongrel of a currency survives.
I do fear that the EU negotiation position is solely aimed at punishing the UK for voting to leave and, as a result, the end trade agreement may not be beneficial to either, but I still prefer that unknown outcome to continued subservience to an EU superstate.
I hope I am wrong and that in the end the market will determine the outcome, but for this to happen I think the German trade associations need to throttle Barnier and Juncker.

[Jack Staff]

I have never understood the Brexiters hatred of the €. Always stating that a currency can not work in both Monaco (not even EU) and Athens, their economies are soooo different. Yet the £ works perfectly well in swanky Mayfair and Middlesbrough (The English Indices of Deprivation
2015).
But most Brexiters seem perfectly happy with the idea of the EU adopting the £. As parity nears perhaps we will adopt the €, but call all our currency £'s. No one would notice then.
Of course there are others that want to go back Pounds, Shillings, and Pence or LSD as we knew it (the £ symbol being a stylised L) coming from the Latin librae, solidi, and denarii. The currency of the pan European Romans.

[Mervyn and Trish]

The pound being devalued illustrates exactly why the Euro doesn't work. The devaluation has enabled exporters to thrive and brought millions of additional tourists here, helping to boost our economy at a time of change.

Greece on the other hand is bound to the Euro. And when their economy crashed the inability to devalue has pushed them deeper into crisis, unemployment and debt to the all powerful Germany.

[Jack Staff]

The pound being devalued illustrates exactly why the Euro doesn't work. The devaluation has enabled exporters to thrive and brought millions of additional tourists here, helping to boost our economy at a time of change.

You might find this interesting....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... -weakness/

Greece on the other hand is bound to the Euro. And when their economy crashed the inability to devalue has pushed them deeper into crisis, unemployment and debt to the all powerful Germany.

I think we are about to find out the repercussions of the ability to devalue.

[Jack Staff]

We all know that we face a bill of (say) 50 billion Euro.

If Mr. Hammond had been prudent and nipped out to the Post Office on 23rd June 2016 that €50b would have cost the treasury £38.168b
If he had bought his € the day we triggered Article 50 that cost had gone up to £42.505b
Yesterday it would cost him £45.951b

Mr. Davis should hurry up, his shenanigans are literally costing this country billions!

[Mervyn and Trish]

We all know!

Go on Jack, giver the lottery numbers a try!

[Jack Staff]

We all know!

Go on Jack, giver the lottery numbers a try!

I'm not a gambler, probably why I am against Brexit.

[screwy]

We all know that we face a bill of (say) 50 billion Euro.

If Mr. Hammond had been prudent and nipped out to the Post Office on 23rd June 2016 that €50b would have cost the treasury £38.168b
If he had bought his € the day we triggered Article 50 that cost had gone up to £42.505b
Yesterday it would cost him £45.951b

Mr. Davis should hurry up, his shenanigans are literally costing this country billions!

It would have indeed been prudent of Hammond....problem is he wasnt chancellor till 13th July.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Don't let the facts get in the way of Jack's opinions Screwy.

[Jack Staff]

....problem is he wasnt chancellor till 13th July.

Got me. But the point still stands.

[barney]

Lets' get one thing clear Jack and I'm sure we'd agree on this point.

The EU are not our friends.

They are in actual fact, trying their damdest to have us over.

That is you, me and every single tax payer in the UK.

They are trying to poach away City of London business (can't blame them for that) and anything else that they can get away with.

They have presented a ridiculous divorce bill when until now, no one even realised we were married.

They have openly blocked EVERY UK proposal while coming back with nothing themselves.

They are openly ridiculing the UK negotiators while offering nothing constructive except 'not acceptable' and 'clarity'.

In a nutshell, they are floundering and have nothing to bring to the table. Barnier is ensuring the hardest of hard Brexit because they simply don't know how to negotiate.

As each day passes, I become more convinced that the UK will just crash out, leave totally, with no interim period and then the EU politicians will have to explain why to their own citizens.

All we are looking to do is leave an alliance that doesn't suit our purposes after shelling out billions to help keep it afloat.

I see the ECB has continued with it's Ponzi QE for another quarter.

All is not as rosy in the garden as Deniers seem to think.

A crash out will be bad for us, but just as bad for many EU countries.

We have hotelier friends in Malt who are literally pooing themselves if the UK goes into recession as that is the bulk of their business.
Who will fill those hotel beds, Albanians?