Brexit

[Mervyn and Trish]

I've started this specific topic as I suggested I would on the Current Affairs thread with the idea we might confine the Brexit spats here so those who wish to avoid the topic on what is, after all a Cruising forum, can do so.

Okay everyone?

[Jan Rosser]

Thank you Merv - you are a star - I shall avoid this topic like the plague

[Mervyn and Trish]

My pleasure Blod, though my efforts appear to have failed already!

[barney]

It was quite interesting listening to an EU President of something or other on Newsnight last night.

When questioned by Evan Davis, he made it abundantly clear that it really is all about the money.

Davis said about May's £20 billion offer and he said that the UK could easily afford another £20 billion.
His exact words were £20 billion is peanuts to a country like the UK.

That makes it evidently clear to me that the EU are just pitching to see what they can get out of the UK taxpayer before we go.

So, it appears that it isn't much to do with obligations or long term commitments.
It really is just 'show me the money' before you go.

It really is just a huge scam isn't it.
Probably the worlds largest ever Ponzi scheme.

Here is how it works.

You give me some money and over a period of time, I'll give you some back, in bits and bobs, as I see fit.
I'll buy lot's of shiney things with the money you've given me but you won't actually ever have a stake in the shiney things. They will always remain my property.
I'll also give some of your money to poorer people so that I'll always have a hold over them and they will have to do what I say.
I'll get you to borrow some money so that I can put it in my European Central Bank and I can then lend it back to you.

So, what's in it for you, you may well ask.

Well, in return for all this, you can trade freely and tariff free with 27 other countries.
Oh, when I say free, I actually meant his will cost you about £8 billion a year for the privilege.
You will also be allowed to take in about 3 million of Europe's unemployed.
Won't some of them benefit the UK I hear you ask?
Yes, of course some will, but about 80% will be low skilled workers looking for minimum wage jobs so that they can have the wages boosted by the UK' generous in work benefit system.

" I don't think I like the sound of all that" you say to me, " I want to leave"

Ah Ha! here is the catch

If you decide to leave, you must give me loads more money for the privilege of leaving, because if I cannot continue to fleece you, I might have to reign in my spending a bit, and we wouldn't want that would we?

"But I've given you £billions over the years. Surely that is enough"?

It's never enough.
Is it?

[oldbluefox]

Somebody has to pay for the three day jolly at the end of the month when they move lock, stock and barrel to Strasbourg to stock up on their wine.

[Dancing Queen]

Thank you Merv - you are a star - I shall avoid this topic like the plague

You and me both Jan

[david63]

I have been saying all along that it is about money - the UK is a net contributor so when we go there is a big hole to be filled which means that our contribution is our biggest negotiating tool - always has been and always will be. The problem that whichever Government is doing the negotiations has is convincing the UK public that it is in our best/only interest to keep paying.

The other problem is that the EU are incapable of negotiating anything (the could not negotiate themselves out of a paper bag!) - all they know is how to "bully" countries into accepting whatever it is on their terms, basically a "take it or leave it" attitude, and now they have met their match they don't know how to handle it so revert to type.

[CaroleF]

Now I'm definitely not suggesting another referendum - Heaven forbid! However, I wonder how many people would vote to us just to leave and let the EU get on with it, give them nothing and say, Well that's what happens when you try to force us into giving you yet more money - you've had enough out of us!

[qbman1]

Thank you Merv - you are a star - I shall avoid this topic like the plague

You and me both Jan

I'm out too - especially if this one goes round and round in never decreasing circles like the last one !

[oldbluefox]

I think barney has summed up my attitude to the EU superbly.
Not bad for a Gills supporter.

[david63]

Time for a "conspiracy theory"

Everything that is going on now is nothing more than postulating as the deal on how much we are going to be paying for access to the single market has already been agreed. Everyone is trying to "save face" and not make the announcement until the last possible moment.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Interesting theory. Should we open a poll on the number?

I heard someone from the EU last week saying it wasn't enough for the UK to meet our legal commitments! Hmmm.

But in the last few days it's become clear no one on either side wants a "no deal" outcome. Which rather fits with David's idea.

[towny44]

Is it just me or do the EU keep moving the goal posts? Up till recently Barnier was saying we had to agree the divorce payment before talks on any new trade deal could begin, now he seems to be saying that trade talks cannot start until after we leave the EU in March 2019!!!!

[david63]

do the EU keep moving the goal posts?

But do you not have to have some goal posts before you are able to move them?

[oldbluefox]

On trade the EU knows it needs us as much as we need them but neither side wants to be seen as backing down. The EU have a further concern that any deal made with UK, if it is seen as favourable, would give the green light to others in the EU breaking away on similar terms.

[david63]

The EU have a further concern that any deal made with UK, if it is seen as favourable, would give the green light to others in the EU breaking away on similar terms.

Which is why we will be paying more or less the same amount to the EU that we are paying now for access to the "free" market.

Why nobody can/will say that we are going to pay £300m a week for this access and to the customs union and then get on with sorting out the "nitty gritty" I don't know - well actually I do, neither the Labour Party nor the UK electorate would stand for it!"

[towny44]

The EU have a further concern that any deal made with UK, if it is seen as favourable, would give the green light to others in the EU breaking away on similar terms.

Which is why we will be paying more or less the same amount to the EU that we are paying now for access to the "free" market.

Why nobody can/will say that we are going to pay £300m a week for this access and to the customs union and then get on with sorting out the "nitty gritty" I don't know - well actually I do, neither the Labour Party nor the UK electorate would stand for it!"

Just because you are now officially an "Old Codger" does not entitle you to be such an old grouch.

[Mervyn and Trish]

What I struggle with is Barnier says one thing, then Juncker says another, then Merkel says another, then it all starts again.

The message changes daily.

[gfwgfw]

Hey Ho

A very late decision for the Giant and my Ferrets

We all voted "Leave"

Now I consider it a major slap legs error

Lubboo all

gfw

[GillD46]

Hey Ho

A very late decision for the Giant and my Ferrets

We all voted "Leave"


gfw

I didn’t!

[Frank Manning]

Nor me. The way these clowns in parliament are behaving I'm even more glad that I voted remain. When it is all over It wont have changed the underlying factors which prompted the brexitears.

[towny44]

There may be some clowns in Parliament but it seems there are many more jokers in the EU, the whole Brexit negotiations are begining to resemble a Monty Python script.

[Mervyn and Trish]

The reality is the EU don't want us to leave.

Germany doesn't want to have to pick up a bigger bill.

The recipient countries don't want to lose money.

It's all about the cash. They haven't a clue how to balance the budget without us.

Hence the latest suggestion we could change our minds if we wanted to and the heavily EU driven OED's claim that it would all be alright if we had another referendum.

[oldbluefox]

Apart from the cash they get and somewhere to export their goods do we honestly believe they are really bothered about the UK? Judging by the attitude of their negotiating team I don't think so.
I saw this which, whilst it amused me I also felt a raw sense of irony....................

22554998_1426838497414387_6006923112118215512_n.jpg

[towny44]

It does sum up the overarching, and often pointless, bureaucracy that is the EU, which was one of the many reasons I voted leave.