Brexit

[Jack Staff]

Apart from the cash they get and somewhere to export their goods do we honestly believe they are really bothered about the UK? Judging by the attitude of their negotiating team I don't think so.
I saw this which, whilst it amused me I also felt a raw sense of irony....................

22554998_1426838497414387_6006923112118215512_n.jpg

Shame it is just Brexiter propaganda and completely untrue.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35962999

[Manoverboard]

It's in today's Daily Mail so will probably be castigated as a bunch of lies but they printed an article about many of the Heads of our publically funded Universities, on one page it demonstrated that many are raving lefties and on another that they are robust Remoaners.

Nothing wrong with these ' Heads of ' having ideals that may or may not coincide with my own views but I thought it arrogant and pompous to say the least that they dared to encourage discussion and debate on the benefits of remaining in the EU yet refused to allow any discussion at all regarding the benefits of leaving.

Their role is surely to educate our students not to fill their minds with biased propaganda ?

[Frank Manning]

It may of course be just that; Daily Mail hysteria. When I was teaching at Uni all the lecturers encouraged the students to read a broad spectrum about the topics which were part of the course and to develop their own arguments accordingly. In many degrees an understanding of geopolitics is fully justified and of great benefit to people hoping to pursue careers in multi national and or exporting companies. The Wail is being as hypocritical as ever in trying to influence the development of free and reflective learning by pillorying anyone who doesn't agree with their own view.

[oldbluefox]

Apart from the cash they get and somewhere to export their goods do we honestly believe they are really bothered about the UK? Judging by the attitude of their negotiating team I don't think so.
I saw this which, whilst it amused me I also felt a raw sense of irony....................

22554998_1426838497414387_6006923112118215512_n.jpg

Shame it is just Brexiter propaganda and completely untrue.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35962999

Did I say it was true? You take me too seriously!!!
There's probably more truth in that than George Brown's prophetical Armageddon budget to be put in place as an emergency if we voted to leave. And he was being serious.

[barney]

It may of course be just that; Daily Mail hysteria. When I was teaching at Uni all the lecturers encouraged the students to read a broad spectrum about the topics which were part of the course and to develop their own arguments accordingly. In many degrees an understanding of geopolitics is fully justified and of great benefit to people hoping to pursue careers in multi national and or exporting companies. The Wail is being as hypocritical as ever in trying to influence the development of free and reflective learning by pillorying anyone who doesn't agree with their own view.

Like you Frank, I get my news fro various sources and it's amazing how the same story is covered differently.

I'm aware of confirmation bias and the need to sell papers so fully understand the media's starting point.

I will say that the 'left' seem ever so slightly obsessed with 'right wing' papers like the Daily Mail and The Express.
It should be taken as a given that they will pander to their readership, as does the Guardian and Independent, but on the other side of the coin.

I do have a concern about the state funded BBC but the others can do what they blooming well like as far as I'm concerned.

As for teaching at schools and Uni, it's a well known and very well established fact that most teachers are idealists and as idealists, are looking for the perfect world.
Most teachers that I've met have never really left school and as such, retain an almost infantile outlook on the world.

Any sensible person would agree that a socialist utopia would be wonderful, if somewhat unachievable.

I was a raving socialist as a young man basically because I had bugger all.
As I acquired a bit of wealth, my politics slowly changed.
I'd now say that I'm left wing at heart but my wallet is 100% Tory.

I voted for the UK to leave the EU, not based on the hysterical screechings of any right wing newspaper, but because I did my own research and came to my own conclusions.
Much of which was denounced as hystrionics by the remain campaign will show to have been the truth as time goes by.

The latest EU commission dictate is to introduce equivalence in taxation, by qualified majority voting.
So, no more right of veto for Luxembourg, Ireland and Malta.
To say that they are unhappy is an understatement.
The times are a'changing.

[david63]

Latest story according to the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41774817) is that the European Investment Bank owes the UK around £3b but we cannot have it back for 35 after we have left - sounds like a good negotiating point to me.

[Frank Manning]

I'll be honest Barney in 10 years teaching at Uni I did not hear a single political point for or against the left or the right. It is true that my personal politics moved left, while I was there but not because of any influence from other lecturers but because I was telling students to read widely and develop ideas, and at the same time I began to question the motives of many of our politicians. I would never vote for a Labour party led by Jeremy Corbyn or his cronies, but neither can I vote for my MP because he is I believe PPS to Boris Johnson for whom I have no time. Even less, because, if true that he is reported to have told Lord Adonis that he believed we should Remain, but he could not bring himself to back the same side as Cameron, then that is very petty self interest before Country. There are some good politicians but unfortunately they are drowned out by the hysteria emanating from the extremes of right and left.

I am too old to worry too much about it. It is my grandson I fear for. He has his life ahead of him, and I would like him to live in a country with a sensible balance and a long term economic plan for the future, where all the people have opportunities, not just the few. At the moment it is all a mess.

[barney]

I agree that it's a bit of a mess at he moment Frank, but that is mainly due to the incompetence of this administration when handling the negotiations.
I also believe that the long term situation will be much better for our country outside of the EU, if handled correctly.

Our youngsters will have a fighting chance if we train our own and manage migration properly.

I was reading the other day that the UK population was 45 million just after the war.
It's now projected to be 70 million by the end of the decade.
That's a pretty hefty increase in anybody's book.

GDP is important, but not at any cost. We seem to have lost sight of that.

I grew up being in the EU and hardly gave it a thought until the announcement of the referendum.
It was just there.
Then I started doing a lot of research and didn't really like what I was finding out, from the horrendous level of waste to the discriminatory CAP.
The more I found out, the less I like it.

Sure, things are going to be different.
Maybe travel into Europe will be slightly more difficult, but I doubt it.
I was chatting to a friend of mine who works for TUI.
They are in a bit of turmoil because as a company, they should be working on holidays for 2019, but cannot be sure that planes will fly, unhindered into Europe because of the Openskies agreement.
So, do they not sell them?
Do they prioritise holidays outside the EU?
Will the European hoteliers be happy with a massive drop in rooms sold?
Who will take up the slack?
These things cannot and will not be left until the last minute because these holidays are sold a year in advance.
Imagine Juncker saying to the minister for tourism in Spain, sorry senor, but 13 million Brits won't be visiting in 2019 because we cannot guarantee flights.
This is a massive part of their income.

As anyone knows, ultimately, the customer is King.
The EU countries will have no choice but to agree a deal because they will lose out massively if they don't.

[Manoverboard]

Sorry Frank but you cannot claim that any newspaper is wholly wrong just because you have an alternative view.

The Mail may actually have been right on this occasion and, for me anyway, it is entirely possible that some ( albeit not all ) of the universities ( red brick or so called ) did prohibit debate aimed at supporting Brexit ... regardless of how it used to work in a bygone era.

[Frank Manning]

I think if that were the case more of the students might have turned out to vote. I would be surprised in the extreme if a university lecturer prohibited debate. Quite the opposite, indeed a students work needs to contain balanced arguments in its development and all supported by references which the marker checks for correctness.

There is an unhealthy undertone reminiscent of the extremes of political dogma in demanding that names of academics be revealed lest they be departing from "the approved script".

The further into the mire that the process goes, the more hysterical are the screams such as "Traitors" from the far right who fear that the people might come to realise that they have been duped. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Hence as the Tories move right Labour moves left. Beware the electoral consequences of that Mr Rees Mogg et al because if Corbyn gets into No 10 you may find a different kind of message being required.

[Mervyn and Trish]

If Mr Corbyn gets into No. 10 then I may be applying for Greek citizenship!

[towny44]

You may be in a a fairly large queue Merv all trying to escape in that case.

[Mervyn and Trish]

We could charter a very large cruise ship!

[oldbluefox]

Thanks you lot!! Going to bed with the thought of Corbyn, McDonnell, Thornberry, Abbott, Chakrabarti & Co in my mind how am I expected to sleep? If you thought Brexit was bad wait until that little lot get in.

[Manoverboard]

After Brexit you wont be permitted to take up Greek Citizenship ... according to the Daily Telegraph

[Frank Manning]

At least the 'Torygraph' isn't fixated on 'pert derrier's, side boobs', etc Moby. I would not choose an eu country if Corbyn or Rees Mogg drove me out. Canada, thats the place.

[Manoverboard]

At least the 'Torygraph' isn't fixated on 'pert derrier's, side boobs', etc Moby. I would not choose an eu country if Corbyn or Rees Mogg drove me out. Canada, thats the place.

Are you suggesting that Daily Mail readers subscribe for a glimpse of a heaving bazoom ?

The paper for the common man eh, thick as two short planks and Brexit voters for sure ... an interesting theory Frank

[Mervyn and Trish]

If the Mail has a p3 it passed me by!

[towny44]

I doubt anyone buys a paper anymore for page 3 titillation, Game of Thrones provides that in spades.

[barney]

What do others think about the three stooges taking themselves to Brussels to speak to the EU chief negotiator Barnier, on behalf of the UK

So, we had Ken Clarke who should be put out to grass by now. He was a good chancellor in his day, but that day has long passed.
Then Nick Clegg, who was soundly rejected by his constituents but is no doubt hanging around and waiting for another chance to spout his rubbish.
Last but by all means least, Lord Adonis, who has never be elected to a single position in his life.

I suppose the real question is why would Barnier waste his time discussing Brexit with has beens and the never were?

Clegg said that they were there to discuss an alternative view ????

No wonder the EU can't figure out what is going on in the UK.
The PM should immediately withdraw the Tory whip from Clarke and tell Barnier to ignore the other two clowns as they speak for no one.

This country has become a farce in the eyes of others. Why can't these halfwit Remoaner protesters see the damage that they are doing to the UK negotiating stance.
Some lightweight nobody from Finland was on TV today saying that many abroad still think that Brexit won't happen because of idiots like this, spouting opinions as if they are facts.

Such a shame that May won the Tory leadership unopposed.
This country needs a leader at a time like this, and that she ain't, unfortunately.

[towny44]

A bit harsh on Theresa Barney, she was looking good until the election but without a majority she's never going to rival the iron lady. And its no good blaming her for the election when lots of Tories, me included, thought it was a great idea to cash in on such a commanding opinion poll lead. Could it be that all the polls were run by bremoaners who deliberately set out to mislead her, or is that a conspiracy theory too far?

[Mervyn and Trish]

Latest news is the Bank of England predicting job losses in the City. Will this be their first prediction to actually be right?

[Frank Manning]

No good you guys blaming remoaners for the Tories terrible election campaign. They misjudged the whole thing. Even I would prefer a stronger government than we now have. The current situation brexit or no brexit is bad for the country.
I am not going to get into one of these round and round arguments, they will only waste time that I don't have. You keep patting each other on the back and I'll stay off the forum.

[Mervyn and Trish]

No doubt Frank the election outcome was the result of two things. Uncosted unaffordable bribes by Labour. And spectacular own goals by the Tories. Both those pro and anti Brexit were entitled to the choices they made. And I agree the result helps no one.

[Manoverboard]

No good you guys blaming remoaners for the Tories terrible election campaign. They misjudged the whole thing. Even I would prefer a stronger government than we now have. The current situation brexit or no brexit is bad for the country.
I am not going to get into one of these round and round arguments, they will only waste time that I don't have. You keep patting each other on the back and I'll stay off the forum.

As a Moderator I would advise ....

Frank, we would obviously prefer to see you ' remain ' on the Site but views on Brexit will not be based on the preferences of one Member, if you feel that you may be offended by any of the postings then it may be best if you don't read the ' Brexit ' Forum.

Kindly note, in case you missed it, the Mods will meanwhile ensure that Brexit related matters will be confined to the Brexit Forum, any comments posted elsewhere will be deleted.

OK