Current Affairs

[Mervyn and Trish]

Hydrogen is only emission free at the exhaust pipe.

However the Hydrogen fuel has to be generated by electrolysis, turning water into hydrogen and oxygen, the reverse of the process which powers the car, re-creating water as the exhaust product.

Electrolysis requires electricity, which has to be generated. So Hydogen fuel is only as clean as the electricity source used to make it. And has the same problem as electric vehicles. If it became the fuel of choice it would cripple the national grid.

There is another factor with carrying a tank of Hydrogen round too. Anyone remember the Hindenberg and the R101?

Just goes to prove the old saying "there's no such thing as a free lunch." Now where did I put those elastic bands?.

Has no one told you about the environmental impact of elastic bands?

[Frank Manning]

They can be painful if they twang and trap your fingers.....hmmm!

[Mervyn and Trish]

Or worse!

[towny44]

I can just about accept electricity as being valid under current affairs, but surely not elastic bands.

[Quizzical Bob]

I do rather fancy a plug in hybrid,

Currently plug in hybrids are not that practical. Firstly you have to have a charging point at home which costs several hundred pounds and the infrastructure for charging away from home is pretty poor - there are several companies that offer the service but they are unique in that if you subscribe to one you cannot use another one. Having said that this situation should improve over the next few years.

I was reading an interesting report a few weeks ago which said that the present electricity network is totally incapable of supporting plug-in electric vehicles in the domestic environment - if there were to be six cars in one street all charging at once then it would bring the area down and if you use a high speed charger at home you would not be able to boil a kettle at the same time!

Not sure about this David, my son is considering a plug in hybrid for his next company car and will have a high speed charger installed at home. I believe, from what he said, that this will be on a totally separate system to his normal domestic supply so I assume it will have no impact on his normal usage. I have read some articles about the possible impact of lots of cars charging at once, but I think these are a bit like the doomsayers of the impact of Brexit, full of hot air but little true facts.

Towny, like your views on Brexit you are far too complacent. Changing from oil-powered to Electric Vehicles will need the equivalent of several new nuclear power stations. That energy has to come from somewhere. Then there is the problem that electric vehicles still generate a lot of polution in the form of brake dust and tyre debris. If you think hat electric traction is clean then I suggest that you spend a few days on the Northern Line!

My institution the IEE (as it was then) did sme studies on this a decade or two ago and when all the losses in power transmission and battery conversion efficiency were taken into account the overall savings were not very great. All it does is move the polluting element a lot further away.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 23496.html
https://www.ft.com/content/11528c98-66f ... 38dcaef614

[Quizzical Bob]

Hydrogen is only emission free at the exhaust pipe.

However the Hydrogen fuel has to be generated by electrolysis, turning water into hydrogen and oxygen, the reverse of the process which powers the car, re-creating water as the exhaust product.

Electrolysis requires electricity, which has to be generated. So Hydogen fuel is only as clean as the electricity source used to make it. And has the same problem as electric vehicles. If it became the fuel of choice it would cripple the national grid.

There is another factor with carrying a tank of Hydrogen round too. Anyone remember the Hindenberg and the R101?

Hydrogen is used in vehicles in California and is regarded as about as safe as gasoline. The hydrogen can be obtained from hydrocarbons.

https://www.slashgear.com/fuel-cell-saf ... -19479069/
https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/8- ... -cars.html

[towny44]

I do rather fancy a plug in hybrid,

Currently plug in hybrids are not that practical. Firstly you have to have a charging point at home which costs several hundred pounds and the infrastructure for charging away from home is pretty poor - there are several companies that offer the service but they are unique in that if you subscribe to one you cannot use another one. Having said that this situation should improve over the next few years.

I was reading an interesting report a few weeks ago which said that the present electricity network is totally incapable of supporting plug-in electric vehicles in the domestic environment - if there were to be six cars in one street all charging at once then it would bring the area down and if you use a high speed charger at home you would not be able to boil a kettle at the same time!

Not sure about this David, my son is considering a plug in hybrid for his next company car and will have a high speed charger installed at home. I believe, from what he said, that this will be on a totally separate system to his normal domestic supply so I assume it will have no impact on his normal usage. I have read some articles about the possible impact of lots of cars charging at once, but I think these are a bit like the doomsayers of the impact of Brexit, full of hot air but little true facts.

Towny, like your views on Brexit you are far too complacent. Changing from oil-powered to Electric Vehicles will need the equivalent of several new nuclear power stations. That energy has to come from somewhere. Then there is the problem that electric vehicles still generate a lot of polution in the form of brake dust and tyre debris. If you think hat electric traction is clean then I suggest that you spend a few days on the Northern Line!

My institution the IEE (as it was then) did sme studies on this a decade or two ago and when all the losses in power transmission and battery conversion efficiency were taken into account the overall savings were not very great. All it does is move the polluting element a lot further away.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 23496.html
https://www.ft.com/content/11528c98-66f ... 38dcaef614

QB, like most remainers you only comment on half the facts, I did in fact indicate a liking for a plug in hybrid, as you will know these vehicles only have small batteries and generally an electric only range of 50 or so miles. So this sort of vehicle would primarily use hydrocarbon fuel for long journeys, but would have the capability of being fully electric for local running. The timing for any purchase of mine is several years away, time for the new green electricity generation to come on stream as well as improvements in battery size and performance and, since wind is a 24 hr commodity then overnight charging could be made cheap enough to make electric vehicles very economic.
But maybe I should bow down to your old and possibly out of date statistics.

[Quizzical Bob]

Currently plug in hybrids are not that practical. Firstly you have to have a charging point at home which costs several hundred pounds and the infrastructure for charging away from home is pretty poor - there are several companies that offer the service but they are unique in that if you subscribe to one you cannot use another one. Having said that this situation should improve over the next few years.

I was reading an interesting report a few weeks ago which said that the present electricity network is totally incapable of supporting plug-in electric vehicles in the domestic environment - if there were to be six cars in one street all charging at once then it would bring the area down and if you use a high speed charger at home you would not be able to boil a kettle at the same time!

Not sure about this David, my son is considering a plug in hybrid for his next company car and will have a high speed charger installed at home. I believe, from what he said, that this will be on a totally separate system to his normal domestic supply so I assume it will have no impact on his normal usage. I have read some articles about the possible impact of lots of cars charging at once, but I think these are a bit like the doomsayers of the impact of Brexit, full of hot air but little true facts.

Towny, like your views on Brexit you are far too complacent. Changing from oil-powered to Electric Vehicles will need the equivalent of several new nuclear power stations. That energy has to come from somewhere. Then there is the problem that electric vehicles still generate a lot of polution in the form of brake dust and tyre debris. If you think hat electric traction is clean then I suggest that you spend a few days on the Northern Line!

My institution the IEE (as it was then) did sme studies on this a decade or two ago and when all the losses in power transmission and battery conversion efficiency were taken into account the overall savings were not very great. All it does is move the polluting element a lot further away.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 23496.html
https://www.ft.com/content/11528c98-66f ... 38dcaef614

QB, like most remainers you only comment on half the facts, I did in fact indicate a liking for a plug in hybrid, as you will know these vehicles only have small batteries and generally an electric only range of 50 or so miles. So this sort of vehicle would primarily use hydrocarbon fuel for long journeys, but would have the capability of being fully electric for local running. The timing for any purchase of mine is several years away, time for the new green electricity generation to come on stream as well as improvements in battery size and performance and, since wind is a 24 hr commodity then overnight charging could be made cheap enough to make electric vehicles very economic.
But maybe I should bow down to your old and possibly out of date statistics.

Towny, you can't avoid the basics. The energy needed for these road vehicles has to come from somewhere, and there is not enough electricity generating capacity in the UK at the moment to replace that which is currently supplied (do you see what I did there?) by hydrocarbons in the vehicle's fuel tanks. It doesn't matter whether this extra electricity is renewable, nuclear or fossil, the demand is extra to the present capabilities and as things stand now is a threat to present supplies. Off-peak supply is already accounted for to some extent. Battery performance is continually improving but we are more than 'several years' away from significant improvements.

By all means go ahead and consider a hybrid solution, I'm sure it will fulfil your needs, but if the whole country changed over tomorrow we would all have to take turns over charging them. If we are to change then an enormous investment needs to me made in the next ten years and I don't see where that money is going to come from.

None of the snide comments please, thes matters fall under my professional briefing and I am required to keep up to date with developments.

[Frank Manning]

Hi QB interesting point. Our council's argument to any traffic and motoring problems is 'use the buses or walk. Unless of course you are in an 'essential occupation. I. e. Theirs.

[oldbluefox]

Sadly when our politicians come up with these brainwaves they forget we don't all live in London. Neither public transport nor walking are alternatives in the greater part of rural areas. For the majority of the population, apart from the expense, getting to work by public transport is not feasible unless you live.................

[towny44]

None of the snide comments please, these matters fall under my professional briefing and I am required to keep up to date with developments.

I was not aware I was being snide, merely pointing out that in your own words the data you quote was a decade or two old, and with the recent major advances in electric car technology it will very likely be out of date now.
Possibly I should be upset at your suggestion that my attitude to hybrid cars was as complacent as my views on Brexit, but we Yorkshire men are more broad shouldered and do not take offence that easily.

[barney]

As soon as they make an electric car with a range of 200+ miles on a charge, I'm in.
I think it's the future and the old combustion engine has had it's day.
Can anyone tell me why they cannot produce a car with two batteries, one driving the car while the other is charging via some sort of dynamo?
Then just switch as one decreases but it immediately goes back on charge.
I expect there is a simple reason why it cannot be done.

[towny44]

As soon as they make an electric car with a range of 200+ miles on a charge, I'm in.
I think it's the future and the old combustion engine has had it's day.
Can anyone tell me why they cannot produce a car with two batteries, one driving the car while the other is charging via some sort of dynamo?
Then just switch as one decreases but it immediately goes back on charge.
I expect there is a simple reason why it cannot be done.

I think that would be called perpetual motion Barney, which I doubt we will see in our lifetime.

[Manoverboard]

We were driving slowly through Castle Point's lower level carpark ( in Bournemouth ) in a Toyota Hybrid yesterday. It was utterly silent and the slightly deaf little old lady who was pushing her Sainsbury's trolley came very close to death or worse by putting a large scrape down the side of one's chums new RAV4.

Serious point here is that there should be an over-ride to switch off the Electric drive in favour of Petrol/Diesel thus making them a lot safer ( LOUDER ) than is presently the case.

[qbman1]

Or he could get a Dukes of Hazard type air horn - that would snap her out of her stupor !

[Manoverboard]

I said ... SERIOUS point

[qbman1]

All supermarket trolleys should be fitted with an air horn as standard

[Stephen]

.... and long spikes on the wheels

[qbman1]

Don't forget the child catcher on the front

[Stephen]

Bull bars for me to shift the lard ar*es that stand chatting in the door way and isles

[Jack Staff]

So, Fallon has gone.
Time for a reshuffle then, I wonder if disgraced former Defense Minister Fox will get his old job back?

[qbman1]

Ridiculous - if we were all caught touching someone's knee 30 years ago, the prisons would be full to overflowing !

[Stephen]

What makes me laugh is why the women in question don't complain and pursue it when the alleged event happend, not five+ years later just because it is suddenly making news and they want they're five minutes of fame.

[Jan Rosser]

Ridiculous - if we were all caught touching someone's knee 30 years ago, the prisons would be full to overflowing !

I have to agree with you there Cubie - there's "inappropriate behaviour" and "inappropriate behaviour" and I was more riled about being expected as the new girl in the office to have to make the tea for the "boys" than an arm around my shoulder. After I left school I worked in the Engineers' department at my local council and there was only myself and two other women - the rest being the "boys" - I never ever felt anyone overstepped the mark - bit of banter - I imagine today however even that would be frowned on. One thing I do remember particularly was no bad language - the lack of vocabulary skills and the frequent use of the "f" word is a sad reflection of society today.

[Jack Staff]

Ridiculous - if we were all caught touching someone's knee 30 years ago, the prisons would be full to overflowing !

You haven't seen 'the list' then....