Brexit

[towny44]

The clocks ticking Jack, you need to get a caravan bought in Benidorm and get the removal men and Ferry booked.Oh, and no nipping back for your healthcare.

You can have NHS or Brexit. Not both.

I will be fascinated to read your justification for this comment Jack, and please don't trot out the current false news that EU nationals are leaving the NHS in droves, that was debunked by a correct interpretation of the latest statistics. That's something the remain camp seem unable to get to grips with.

[Jack Staff]

You can have NHS or Brexit. Not both.

I will be fascinated to read your justification for this comment Jack, and please don't trot out the current false news that EU nationals are leaving the NHS in droves, that was debunked by a correct interpretation of the latest statistics. That's something the remain camp seem unable to get to grips with.

How many reasons do you want?
I would like to see those 'latest statistics' as everything I have seen and even anecdotally points to staff shortages.
The £350m per week for the NHS has been replaced with £3 billion for Brexit preparation.
Most government ministers already own shares in health companies, ready for privatisation.
That'll do for now.

[oldbluefox]

I have seen this trotted out so often it becomes tiresome.
Who said there would be £350million per week for the NHS?
If you give up any subsidies, capital projects etc there could be £350 million per week but did anybody actually believe this was feasible. The truth is there would be £350 million per week we can spend as we think fit, not as directed by the EU and none of which would be squandered on bureaucrats in Brussels, Strasbourg and Luxembourg.

Now can you explain what you meant by 'You can have NHS or Brexit. Not both' as requested by towny.

And what does #FBPE mean?

[Jack Staff]

I have seen this trotted out so often it becomes tiresome.
Who said there would be £350million per week for the NHS?

Boris Johnson
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09 ... 0m-eu-nhs/
Jacob Rees-Mogg
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... e-campaign
Michael Gove
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 98651.html
A big red bus

Surely that will do for now?

If you give up any subsidies, capital projects etc there could be £350 million per week but did anybody actually believe this was feasible. The truth is there would be £350 million per week we can spend as we think fit, not as directed by the EU and none of which would be squandered on bureaucrats in Brussels, Strasbourg and Luxembourg.

So how come Hammond can find £3Billion for Brexit planning? Squandered on bureaucrats in Westminster.

Now can you explain what you meant by 'You can have NHS or Brexit. Not both' as requested by towny.

The Conservatives want to privatise the NHS, always have done. By cutting the money to the service, it makes an American style health service the only option. With big profits for the shareholders.
Once Brexit has happened the country will no longer have enough tax receipts to fund it.
The NHS is reliant on EU staff, who are leaving in droves. Though I believe I will have new information to review shortly on this subject.

And what does #FBPE mean?

It is a secret symbol of an arm of the Bresistance. Much like a Masonic hanshake, or Christians scratching a fish in the dirt, it allows us to identify each other. So secret is it that it takes Google 0.33 seconds to return the answer, but I am on a slow connection.

[oldbluefox]

Johnson: "£350 million per week better off after leaving the EU and that the money could be spent on the NHS."
Rees Mogg: “We promised £350 million for the NHS so we must deliver it.”
Gove: "The ex-cabinet minister, who fell from grace during the Tory leadership contest, claimed the argument was still robust as the sum of money could be spent by a future government if it chose to".

"A spokeswoman for the Department of Health said: "There are 3,193 more EU nationals working in the NHS than at the time of the referendum........"
May has already indicated that those EU nationals already here will be allowed to stay but it is the EU dragging its heels. Meanwhile Remoaners are suggesting they will have to return which is a blatant lie.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-41556997

#FBPE = Florida Board of Professional Engineers, delivered on Google in 0.22 seconds. Change your broadband supplier.

[Jack Staff]

Johnson: "£350 million per week better off after leaving the EU and that the money could be spent on the NHS."
Rees Mogg: “We promised £350 million for the NHS so we must deliver it.”
Gove: "The ex-cabinet minister, who fell from grace during the Tory leadership contest, claimed the argument was still robust as the sum of money could be spent by a future government if it chose to".

So the Brexit vote was all based on a fantasy of more money for the NHS?
Do you mean they were telling porkies before the referendum or they are telling those porkies now?
Will the NHS get it's money or not?

"A spokeswoman for the Department of Health said: "There are 3,193 more EU nationals working in the NHS than at the time of the referendum........"
May has already indicated that those EU nationals already here will be allowed to stay but it is the EU dragging its heels. Meanwhile Remoaners are suggesting they will have to return which is a blatant lie.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-41556997

Took me awhile to find that line of 'good news' in what to me was a very damning article on the effects of Brexit on the NHS. But of course the quote was from the Dept. of Health, so, well the would say that.

Them having to return is dependent on us crashing out, which looks more likely by the day.

#FBPE = Florida Board of Professional Engineers, delivered on Google in 0.22 seconds. Change your broadband supplier.

It is a very long under sea cable, that might explain the slow figure.

[oldbluefox]

So the Brexit vote was all based on a fantasy of more money for the NHS?

I see you have switched the argument That figure, for those who haven't realised it was used to show how much COULD be spent. Once out of the EU we should certainly have more money to spend as we wish. Furthermore the Brexit vote was based on much more than finance despite what the Remoaners say.

Took me awhile to find that line of 'good news' in what to me was a very damning article on the effects of Brexit on the NHS. But of course the quote was from the Dept. of Health, so, well the would say that.

It seems clear to me that you struggle to cope with positive news. Try these:
https://news.sky.com/story/record-numbe ... t-11127835
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... tain-rises
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 96151.html
The article also states that we should be training more of our own nurses and doctors, something I agree with wholeheartedly.

Them having to return is dependent on us crashing out, which looks more likely by the day.

If you say so............. The evidence and the rhetoric suggest otherwise.

#FBPE = Florida Board of Professional Engineers, delivered on Google in 0.22 seconds. Change your broadband supplier.

[Jack Staff]

So the Brexit vote was all based on a fantasy of more money for the NHS?

I see you have switched the argument That figure, for those who haven't realised it was used to show how much COULD be spent. Once out of the EU we should certainly have more money to spend as we wish. Furthermore the Brexit vote was based on much more than finance despite what the Remoaners say.

You are saying there could be £350 million if we wanted it?
Well a lot of people do want it.
So what else was the Brexit vote based on? Please don't say Parliamentary sovereignty, as the Quitlings have done all they can to bypass this since the vote.

Took me awhile to find that line of 'good news' in what to me was a very damning article on the effects of Brexit on the NHS. But of course the quote was from the Dept. of Health, so, well the would say that.

It seems clear to me that you struggle to cope with positive news. Try these:
https://news.sky.com/story/record-numbe ... t-11127835
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... tain-rises
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 96151.html
The article also states that we should be training more of our own nurses and doctors, something I agree with wholeheartedly.

I thought we were talking about the NHS. These articles are predominantly about workers/employees (ok, that could be NHS workers). We are losing qualified staff to be replaced by cheap labour.
I agree training of our own doctors and nurses is very good, but that takes both time and investment. Something this government hasn't got.

Them having to return is dependent on us crashing out, which looks more likely by the day.

If you say so............. The evidence and the rhetoric suggest otherwise.

Really? have I missed something? How have they solved the NI border?

[oldbluefox]

You are saying there could be £350 million if we wanted it?
Well a lot of people do want it.

Once we are out of the EU it becomes a possibility.

So what else was the Brexit vote based on?

You mean, after all of these posts you don't know yet.

I thought we were talking about the NHS. These articles are predominantly about workers/employees (ok, that could be NHS workers). We are losing qualified staff to be replaced by cheap labour.

I thought the general consensus was that all our EU migrants were returning home if the Remainers are to be believed. Clearly this is not the case and those who are coming are not all cheap labour either unless you know them all personally.

Them having to return is dependent on us crashing out, which looks more likely by the day.

That's your opinion. I wasn't aware the negotiations had been completed.

Really? have I missed something?

If you are asking that question I think you have missed quite a lot.
Unfortunately you are trotting out the same argument ad nauseum. No point in continuing going round and round in the same circles.
Kind regards to you and your secret society!!!

[Jack Staff]

I too am tired of going round in circles. Not one Beleaver has ever given me a valid reason for this insanity. I wonder why...
Anyway I think we can leave this alone for a while now. There's plenty more fun to come!

[oldbluefox]

Not one Beleaver has ever given me a valid reason for this insanity. I wonder why...

I can help you out there Jack..................

index.jpg

[Jack Staff]

Not one Beleaver has ever given me a valid reason for this insanity. I wonder why...

I can help you out there Jack..................
index.jpg

Of course! Their voice doesn't get out of the sand. Also explains why they think everything is going so well.

[oldbluefox]

index.jpg

[Manoverboard]

I voted to leave to avoid our Grandchildren having to pay for the excesses, inefficiencies and greed of the EU and its beaurocracy.

The only way to stop it and cause serious overdue reform was to remove a serious part of the EU funding, ie ' ours '.

Is that a valid reason or was I misguided, not that it matters cos thankfully we will be exiting anytime soon.

[towny44]

I agree with your comments entirely Moby those are the reasons I voted leave, rather like topsy the EU bureaucracy continues to grow and wants to duplicate a lot of the work currently undertaken by the supposedly sovereign state members.
Additionally I do not agree with a one size fits all currency and worried that those countries not in the euro zone would become increasingly sidelined whilst the EU battled to keep the euro-zone struggler's afloat and diverted more and more to its financing.
Immigration, at least from most of the EU was not a major influence, however I do feel that countries should be able to set their own rules within a framework, and EU immigrants should have a valid job before they are allowed in.
I do not want to cut the UK off from Europe, rather I want us to continue to be a close ally and trading partner, which is just what I signed up for when I voted to remain in the EEC, nothing more nothing less.

[barney]

You can go round in circles until the cows come home but the bottom line is that we are leaving the EU and every British person trying to sabotage this should hang their heads in shame.
Why on earth would you want your own country to get a bad deal just so you could say that you were right all along?
Anyone who wants to throw their hat in with the EU side should be graciously invited to move there, because the vast majority just want to get on with it.
The referendum counting was broken down into 373 counting areas.
258 voted to leave
115 voted to remain.
The majority of Labour seats voted to leave
The majority of Tory seats voted leave

If you took London out of the equation, the vote to leave was massive.

No matter how you choose to interpret this result, the facts cannot be denied.
Leave won!

The Quislings should give up fighting the battle that they have already lost and concentrate on winning the war to get our country the best deal possible.

From a personal view, I'd have walked away already and told the EU 'negotiators' to give us a call when they are serious about a trade discussion.

[oldbluefox]

As far as I am concerned the sooner we leave, the better, deal or no deal. Happy to be an ally to Europe but I don't want to be ruled by them.

[Stephen]

Just wish they would stop all this faffing about and get on with it.

[Jack Staff]

I voted to leave to avoid our Grandchildren having to pay for the excesses, inefficiencies and greed of the EU and its beaurocracy.

The only way to stop it and cause serious overdue reform was to remove a serious part of the EU funding, ie ' ours '.

Is that a valid reason or was I misguided, not that it matters cos thankfully we will be exiting anytime soon.

But you are OK with David Davis taking a RAF plane to and from Brussels? Not like there are plenty of scheduled flights or dare I say it a train direct from central London.

Our funding for the EU isn't serious. It is a cheap price to pay for all the benefits we enjoy, thanks to serious politicians like Maggie.

I am afraid you were misguided, as you have confined your Grandchildren to a poorer future, restricted in their ambitions to our little island.

[Jack Staff]

I agree with your comments entirely Moby those are the reasons I voted leave, rather like topsy the EU bureaucracy continues to grow and wants to duplicate a lot of the work currently undertaken by the supposedly sovereign state members.

We suddenly need new (or super inflated) Authorities to oversee aviation, medicine, nuclear, customs, car safety, ....

Additionally I do not agree with a one size fits all currency and worried that those countries not in the euro zone would become increasingly sidelined whilst the EU battled to keep the euro-zone struggler's afloat and diverted more and more to its financing.

As we are not currently members of the Eurozone, this does not concern us. The money we pay to the EU has nothing to do with the Euro. This will change when we rejoin and have to adopt the Euro as a new member.

Immigration, at least from most of the EU was not a major influence, however I do feel that countries should be able to set their own rules within a framework, and EU immigrants should have a valid job before they are allowed in.

This is almost exactly as the rules are in most EU countries. We could have done it here too, but our then Home Secretary didn't bother. I May be able to recall her name....
This, whilst being a major cock up by our government, also goes to show that it is not the EU who make OUR rules.

I do not want to cut the UK off from Europe, rather I want us to continue to be a close ally and trading partner, which is just what I signed up for when I voted to remain in the EEC, nothing more nothing less.

We currently trade all over the world, via our EU membership. By leaving the EU we are cutting ourselves off from more than just Europe.

[Jack Staff]

You can go round in circles until the cows come home but the bottom line is that we are leaving the EU and every British person trying to sabotage this should hang their heads in shame.

I am very proud of trying to protect my country from this debacle.

Why on earth would you want your own country to get a bad deal just so you could say that you were right all along?

I don't want a bad deal. I want the very good deal we have already.

Anyone who wants to throw their hat in with the EU side should be graciously invited to move there, because the vast majority just want to get on with it.
The referendum counting was broken down into 373 counting areas.
258 voted to leave
115 voted to remain.
The majority of Labour seats voted to leave
The majority of Tory seats voted leave

If you took London out of the equation, the vote to leave was massive.

No matter how you choose to interpret this result, the facts cannot be denied.
Leave won!

Some very impressive spin there Barney! Except of course it was a referendum, not an election. Your figures are meaningless in this instance.
I do not think that 1,269,501 out of ~ 65,000,000 can ever be described as a "vast majority". 51.9% of the participating UK electorate doesn't sound that decisive to me.
“If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy”. David Davis 2012.

The Quislings should give up fighting the battle that they have already lost and concentrate on winning the war to get our country the best deal possible.

That is exactly what I and many others are doing. The deal we currently have is the best deal possible.

From a personal view, I'd have walked away already and told the EU 'negotiators' to give us a call when they are serious about a trade discussion.

That is what they are doing to us. Telling us we have to get our own house in order (EU nationals, NI Border) before they will talk trade, this timetable, previously agreed to by David Davis

[oldbluefox]

The deal we currently have is the best deal possible.

Take your rose tinted Euro glasses off Jack. If the deal we currently have was the best the Remainers would have won.

[barney]

While I admire your tenacity Jack, please try and make a sentence out of these words.

Horse, dead, flogging.

You are living in denial of the facts.

It's over mate!

The UK is leaving the EU at the end of March 2019 because both major UK political parties want it.

All that is up for discussion is on what terms.

It's absolutely clear that all the EU are concerned about is money and protecting their project. I would add, a project we (the populace) were unaware we were signing up for in the first place (or would you also dispute this and re-write history)

As I said, I'd have walked already. I'm amazed at the patience of our Government.

I must admit that I quite admire the last tactic of a bit more money but with conditions.
The choice is now their's.
A bit more money or nothing may focus their minds.
I would never have agreed to the three conditions in the first place but then to quote Juncker, nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.

[Manoverboard]

I voted to leave to avoid our Grandchildren having to pay for the excesses, inefficiencies and greed of the EU and its beaurocracy.

The only way to stop it and cause serious overdue reform was to remove a serious part of the EU funding, ie ' ours '.

Is that a valid reason or was I misguided, not that it matters cos thankfully we will be exiting anytime soon.

But you are OK with David Davis taking a RAF plane to and from Brussels? Not like there are plenty of scheduled flights or dare I say it a train direct from central London.

Our funding for the EU isn't serious. It is a cheap price to pay for all the benefits we enjoy, thanks to serious politicians like Maggie.

I am afraid you were misguided, as you have confined your Grandchildren to a poorer future, restricted in their ambitions to our little island.

Not at all, once we sever the links they will be able to work anywhere in the World providing they have the skills required and will be able to do so without having to conform to regulation decreed by unelected EU B-euro-fat cats. Virtually every regulation determined by the EU is about self containment within the class of 27, I think we will fare better in the longer term by trading with a wider audience.

[david63]

Is it me, or have I lost the plot? (I think I lost the plot with Brexit ages ago!)

I was of the understanding that Barnier, et al, were conducting the Brexit negotiations on behalf of ALL the EU member states - now the Irish Government are sticking their oar in and saying that they will veto trade negotiations unless Britain stays in the single market and Customs Union and that there is no "hard" border (according to BBC news this morning).

If this is a sign of things to come then there will never be an agreement of the agreement, so we might as pack up now and stop wasting everyone's time, and taxpayer's money.