Brexit

[barney]

It appears to me however that as we gradually move towards a successful compromise and trade deal with our friends in Europe the Remoaners are getting increasingly desperate to state and re-state their case even though they no longer have one.

Viva la Brexitte

Perhaps then you might like to take this opportunity to restate the Leave camps case?
You know, the £350 million, Turkey joining the Union, being able to trade freely around the world, how Ireland would follow us out, and the best one, that the EU would offer us and even better deal than the one we already have because they are so desperate to keep us in the EU. Any more I've forgotten?

you seem to have a penchant for re-writing history to suit your argument because I have no recollection of any of those 'facts'

Issue 1. The bus said that we send £350 million a week to the EU - technically untrue agreed because of rebates etc - but it never said that the government would spend it on the NHS. A simple google will prove this Jack.
Issue 2 . Turkey was well on the way with it's application and then along came Erdogan. He changed the momentum and direction, not the EU.
Issue 3. Trade freely, well we will won't we, and it won't take years. USA and Australia agreed a trade deal in ten months.
issue 4. Ireland ?? that's a new one on me.
Issue 5. Any halfwit would understand that the relationship will be different.

And there was me thinking that Remainers where supposed to be oh so bright ?

For some inexplicable reason, you still don't seem to have come to terms with the simple fact of the matter.
End of March 2019 the UK is leaving.
That is irreversible. Article 50 says so clearly, except if the UK all 27 agree to change it.
That simply won't happen Jack.

Even if there was a snap election before then, the Labour government would continue, but in a slightly different vein.

The only hardcore remain, besides your good self and the Guardian are the LibDems and the single Green MP.
They could hold a meeting in my down stairs loo.

You have fallen into the Remain campaign trap of only stating the 'potential' negatives of leaving while offering no good reason to stay in.
That is why they lost.
Surely you can see that.
Project Fear failed so let's try Project Uncertainty eh?
You are happy to highlight the Leave untruths, what about the remain untruths?
From what we all read, the world should have ended by now.
Even Carney has admitted that the forecasts were over pessimistic, and that's something coming from Mr doom n gloom.

We'll be fine Jack. You are worrying unnecessarily. In my social group, Brexit is rarely mentioned and when it is, it's just to say get on with it.
Things will be different for a while and then it will all settle down and we'll go back to talking about smoking and tipping on ships

[Stephen]

Things will be different for a while and then it will all settle down and we'll go back to talking about smoking and tipping on ships

[Jack Staff]

you seem to have a penchant for re-writing history to suit your argument because I have no recollection of any of those 'facts'

Issue 1. The bus said that we send £350 million a week to the EU - technically untrue agreed because of rebates etc - but it never said that the government would spend it on the NHS. A simple google will prove this Jack.
Issue 2 . Turkey was well on the way with it's application and then along came Erdogan. He changed the momentum and direction, not the EU.
Issue 3. Trade freely, well we will won't we, and it won't take years. USA and Australia agreed a trade deal in ten months.
issue 4. Ireland ?? that's a new one on me.
Issue 5. Any halfwit would understand that the relationship will be different.

And there was me thinking that Remainers where supposed to be oh so bright ?

For some inexplicable reason, you still don't seem to have come to terms with the simple fact of the matter.
End of March 2019 the UK is leaving.
That is irreversible. Article 50 says so clearly, except if the UK all 27 agree to change it.
That simply won't happen Jack.

Even if there was a snap election before then, the Labour government would continue, but in a slightly different vein.

The only hardcore remain, besides your good self and the Guardian are the LibDems and the single Green MP.
They could hold a meeting in my down stairs loo.

You have fallen into the Remain campaign trap of only stating the 'potential' negatives of leaving while offering no good reason to stay in.
That is why they lost.
Surely you can see that.
Project Fear failed so let's try Project Uncertainty eh?
You are happy to highlight the Leave untruths, what about the remain untruths?
From what we all read, the world should have ended by now.
Even Carney has admitted that the forecasts were over pessimistic, and that's something coming from Mr doom n gloom.

We'll be fine Jack. You are worrying unnecessarily. In my social group, Brexit is rarely mentioned and when it is, it's just to say get on with it.
Things will be different for a while and then it will all settle down and we'll go back to talking about smoking and tipping on ships

I was just trying to be helpful in suggesting some Leave claims.

Perhaps you might like to take this opportunity to restate any of the Leave camps case that was true?

[towny44]

Jack, neither the leave nor the remain camp could make any claims that at present could be considered to be true, because of course until we know the final terms we have no idea what will happen when we leave.
Generally the leave camp accept this, but it is the remain camp that seem to find this uncertainty to be such a major problem and they appear desperate to have answers to impossible questions. You must be patient.

[Jack Staff]

Jack, neither the leave nor the remain camp could make any claims that at present could be considered to be true, because of course until we know the final terms we have no idea what will happen when we leave.
Generally the leave camp accept this, but it is the remain camp that seem to find this uncertainty to be such a major problem and they appear desperate to have answers to impossible questions. You must be patient.

Seeing my country shrink in stature and economic standing by the day means patience is in short supply.

[towny44]

Jack, neither the leave nor the remain camp could make any claims that at present could be considered to be true, because of course until we know the final terms we have no idea what will happen when we leave.
Generally the leave camp accept this, but it is the remain camp that seem to find this uncertainty to be such a major problem and they appear desperate to have answers to impossible questions. You must be patient.

Seeing my country shrink in stature and economic standing by the day means patience is in short supply.

Jack, I just do not see the same problems as you, the UK still seems to be the favoured destination for 90% of todays economic migrants, they don't appear concerned so why should you.

[Jack Staff]

Jack, I just do not see the same problems as you,

That is exactly why I am concerned for the future of my country.

the UK still seems to be the favoured destination for 90% of todays economic migrants, they don't appear concerned so why should you.

Because we are losing the people we need for the well being of all of us. It is the doctors, scientists, engineers that are going. They may well be being replaced by 'economic migrants', which I am at least grateful for, as we are already seeing crops rotting.

[towny44]

Because we are losing the people we need for the well being of all of us. It is the doctors, scientists, engineers that are going. They may well be being replaced by 'economic migrants', which I am at least grateful for, as we are already seeing crops rotting.

Jack, where is your data to support these spurious claims, and please don't point me to left wing think tanks and Union propaganda because they will spin you around until you're dizzy. Equally the NFUs scare tactics about rotting crops is meant to persuade the Govt to maintain their supply of cheap EU labour when Brexit is agreed.
If you are unable to differentiate between fake news and reality, then I will bring this current saga between us to a close.

[Jack Staff]

Jack, where is your data to support these spurious claims, and please don't point me to left wing think tanks and Union propaganda because they will spin you around until you're dizzy. Equally the NFUs scare tactics about rotting crops is meant to persuade the Govt to maintain their supply of cheap EU labour when Brexit is agreed.
If you are unable to differentiate between fake news and reality, then I will bring this current saga between us to a close.

As you have already proved you will not consider any evidence that does agree with your opinion, I think that is an excellent idea.

[oldbluefox]

As you have already proved you will not consider any evidence that does agree with your opinion, I think that is an excellent idea.

You have so far discounted any positive evidence arising since Brexit.

[Jack Staff]

As you have already proved you will not consider any evidence that does agree with your opinion, I think that is an excellent idea.

You have so far discounted any positive evidence arising since Brexit.

I must have have missed it. So far I have seen nothing. Please repost it and I will gladly look again. I think we all need some good news.

[oldbluefox]

I think you know EXACTLY what I am talking about Jack and are perfectly capable of finding the numerous examples for yourself. But nice try!!!

[Jack Staff]

I think you know EXACTLY what I am talking about Jack and are perfectly capable of finding the numerous examples for yourself. But nice try!!!

I honestly see no good in Brexit. I was hoping someone would have the confidence in their beliefs to tell me how it will make my life, as a British citizen, better. BTW I do not read the Express/Mail/Sun. Maybe that's why.

[Manoverboard]

I think you know EXACTLY what I am talking about Jack and are perfectly capable of finding the numerous examples for yourself. But nice try!!!

I honestly see no good in Brexit. I was hoping someone would have the confidence in their beliefs to tell me how it will make my life, as a British citizen, better. BTW I do not read the Express/Mail/Sun. Maybe that's why.

Perhaps if you did, albeit for a short period, you would have a better balance of opinion. Whatever you presently read obviously has a different bias but it does not automatically become factual just because you want it to.

Those of us who read Brexit supporting papers get fed with one side but the BBC certainly offers the alternative view.

[Ray Scully]

Give it up guys it is just not going to happen The best cases scenario for Brexit supporters is that
1) e will leave the EU
2) We will pay upwards of £50B as a divorce payment
3)We will remain in the customs union
4) The ECJ will still have a big influence on our law making
5) We will make annual payments to be in the customs union
6) Immigration will be fudged but there will still be big numbers of EU nationals coming into the country. If only because we need them.
7) We won't have the hassle of having an input anymore to EU decisions

[Jack Staff]

I think you know EXACTLY what I am talking about Jack and are perfectly capable of finding the numerous examples for yourself. But nice try!!!

I honestly see no good in Brexit. I was hoping someone would have the confidence in their beliefs to tell me how it will make my life, as a British citizen, better. BTW I do not read the Express/Mail/Sun. Maybe that's why.

Perhaps if you did, albeit for a short period, you would have a better balance of opinion. Whatever you presently read obviously has a different bias but it does not automatically become factual just because you want it to.

Those of us who read Brexit supporting papers get fed with one side but the BBC certainly offers the alternative view.

The papers all owned by Billionaire tax haven Brexiters? They are some of the very few people who benefit from this current fiasco.

The BBC is not the alternative view. Many occasions I have found their coverage biased towards Brexit. A little example R4 "Today the Pound is trading at ..." when it falls, or "The pound rose today to ..." . Must not annoy the Beleavers. However, I still have faith in our state broadcaster and as I know it upsets people on either side, generally neutral rather than the alternative.

It is a great shame that in this day and age, experts and specialists are considered "the alternative view", that they are 'saboteurs' or 'enemies of the people'.

How come todays front pages of the Mail and Express are not mentioning the bill?

[Ray Scully]

I think you know EXACTLY what I am talking about Jack and are perfectly capable of finding the numerous examples for yourself. But nice try!!!

I honestly see no good in Brexit. I was hoping someone would have the confidence in their beliefs to tell me how it will make my life, as a British citizen, better. BTW I do not read the Express/Mail/Sun. Maybe that's why.

Perhaps if you did, albeit for a short period, you would have a better balance of opinion. Whatever you presently read obviously has a different bias but it does not automatically become factual just because you want it to.

Those of us who read Brexit supporting papers get fed with one side but the BBC certainly offers the alternative view.

The papers all owned by Billionaire tax haven Brexiters? They are some of the very few people who benefit from this current fiasco.

The BBC is not the alternative view. Many occasions I have found their coverage biased towards Brexit. A little example R4 "Today the Pound is trading at ..." when it falls, or "The pound rose today to ..." . Must not annoy the Beleavers. However, I still have faith in our state broadcaster and as I know it upsets people on either side, generally neutral rather than the alternative.

It is a great shame that in this day and age, experts and specialists are considered "the alternative view", that they are 'saboteurs' or 'enemies of the people'.

How come todays front pages of the Mail and Express are not mentioning the bill?

I don't know if this section of society would benefit from Brexit but the certainly did from the banking crash and the subsequent Bank of England quantative easing, whils joe public is still picking up the bill

[Jack Staff]

Give it up guys it is just not going to happen The best cases scenario for Brexit supporters is that
1) e will leave the EU
2) We will pay upwards of £50B as a divorce payment
3)We will remain in the customs union
4) The ECJ will still have a big influence on our law making
5) We will make annual payments to be in the customs union
6) Immigration will be fudged but there will still be big numbers of EU nationals coming into the country. If only because we need them.
7) We won't have the hassle of having an input anymore to EU decisions

Exactly Ray, spot on. But you did miss the £20 Billion bill for the two year transition period.

[Ray Scully]

Give it up guys it is just not going to happen The best cases scenario for Brexit supporters is that
1) e will leave the EU
2) We will pay upwards of £50B as a divorce payment
3)We will remain in the customs union
4) The ECJ will still have a big influence on our law making
5) We will make annual payments to be in the customs union
6) Immigration will be fudged but there will still be big numbers of EU nationals coming into the country. If only because we need them.
7) We won't have the hassle of having an input anymore to EU decisions

Exactly Ray, spot on. But you did miss the £20 Billion bill for the two year transition period.

I know but you can't hit a guy too hard when he is down

[Jack Staff]

I know but you can't hit a guy too hard when he is down

[CaroleF]

Give up Foxy, you're never going to alter his stance, a waste of your time but thanks for trying.


Carole

[barney]

The BBC was today reporting the drop in immigration as a negative thing.

Surely that is to be celebrated not derided?

It was STILL plus 240k per annum as opposed to it's all time high of 370k.

So, at this current rate, our population increases by a million every four years, instead of every three years.

Coming soon, another massive housing development near you !!!

The absolute irony of the situation is the very same people who don't think massive immigration is a problem to a relatively small country are the very same who complain about lack of available services, traffic problems etc.

As someone who has recently moved out of the south east, I must say that I didn't actually realise how bad the road congestion it was until I left.
You sort of get used to it and accept that getting from A to B will take ages.

[Ray Scully]

Well Barney as long as they let the Doctor Nurse and care staff that I may need as my mortal existence comes to an end

[Mervyn and Trish]

Glad to see you take the view that those who didn't vote at all are against Brexit. Including from your figures all the schoolchildren and babies in the country who aren't actually eligible to vote. Or does Jezzer now want the voting age to be reduced to 0?

Just indicating how outnumbered you guys actually are in the population. You seem to think you are headed to a wonderland where everyone is grateful for what you have done. It will not be so.

I assume you mean Corbyn. How should I know? He's one of your lot, at the moment anyway.

And by your own logic your Remainers are even more outnumbered by those who didn't vote to stay. There is no logic in assuming those who couldn't be bothered to vote, chose not to vote, were unable to vote or were ineligible to vote were aligned with one side or the other. In particular any Remainers who chose not to vote only have themselves to blame if they don't like the outcome.

[oldbluefox]

Well Barney as long as they let the Doctor Nurse and care staff that I may need as my mortal existence comes to an end

Oddly enough I have never come across a doctor or nurse from the EU but continue plucking at the heart strings, I may eventually believe you. You must be taking lessons from Jezzer who always uses the NHS to substantiate his arguments. When your mortal existence does come to an end I know a very good undertaker who is very much into cruising so you will get a good send off!!!
I have seen quite a lot of the NHS lately and I must say they have been excellent. The cardiologist is Asian but all in the tests I have had, nurses and doctors were British. This in an area which has struggled to recruit largely because of lack of investment on the back of PFI. Thank you Mr Blair.