Brexit

[Mervyn and Trish]

The thing is Jack, none of us are actually round the table. We don't know what's going on other than what either side chooses to tell us. And the jumped up bureaucrat Juncker trying to tell us what to do is one of the reasons why I voted out.

Yes we've had crap governments of both sides, but we vote em in and we vote em out. I don't remember voting for Juncker.

But then I never voted for the EU or ever closer union or Frau Merkel or European Army either. I voted for the Common Market. And that has been twisted beyond all recognition since.

Remainers claim we have been misled by the Brexiteers. If we'd been told the truth of where we were going when the Common Market referendum was help my guess is the result would have been very different.

Anyway I have a solution to the Irish question. If the Republic don't like a hard border they can leave the EU too. Seeemples.

[Jack Staff]

The thing is Jack, none of us are actually round the table. We don't know what's going on other than what either side chooses to tell us.

You're not on Twitter then?

And the jumped up bureaucrat Juncker trying to tell us what to do is one of the reasons why I voted out.

He and May were for the deal. He did not tell us what to do, it was Theresa Mays boss, Arlene Foster DUP.

Yes we've had cr*p governments of both sides, but we vote em in and we vote em out. I don't remember voting for Juncker.

His job is elected by MEPs, that you did vote for.

But then I never voted for the EU or ever closer union or Frau Merkel or European Army either. I voted for the Common Market. And that has been twisted beyond all recognition since.
Remainers claim we have been misled by the Brexiteers. If we'd been told the truth of where we were going when the Common Market referendum was help my guess is the result would have been very different.

I would add, a project we (the populace) were unaware we were signing up for in the first place (or would you also dispute this and re-write history)

Thank you Barney, for crediting me with some kind of Orwellian Ministry of truth abilities, but I am afraid it is the Quitlings who are putting out this propaganda to fool the Beleavers of today.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... referenfum
http://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/we-wer ... oodwinked/
http://www.harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/pamphlet.htm

Anyway I have a solution to the Irish question. If the Republic don't like a hard border they can leave the EU too. Seeemples.

May does not like a hard border, as the deal she put up today shows.
The Irish do not like a hard border.
The Northern Irish do not like a hard border.
The EU does not like a hard border.
It was Mays boss that stopped the deal, because Northern Ireland is part of our country and and wants to keep it that way.
And still you claim the Brexit vote was democratic - except if you are Irish, or Scottish or Welsh.

[Jack Staff]

BTW I do not read the Express/Mail/Sun. Maybe that's why.

Perhaps if you did, albeit for a short period, you would have a better balance of opinion. Whatever you presently read obviously has a different bias but it does not automatically become factual just because you want it to.

Those of us who read Brexit supporting papers get fed with one side but the BBC certainly offers the alternative view.

I have no idea if the stories are factual or not, but the day after the monumental events in Brussels yesterday the Brexit paper headlines today are,
Express: ARCTIC FREEZE TO BLAST BACK
Mail: 200 HELD OVER CHILD SEX ABUSE
Sun: MEGAN: MY RIFT WITH DAD

It's like they don't want people to know what's actually happening. I wonder why.

[oldbluefox]

And still you claim the Brexit vote was democratic - except if you are Irish, or Scottish or Welsh.

Here was I thinking they were all part of the UK!!! I think you forgot the Democratic Republic of London who voted Remain and are still having a hissy fit.

[Jack Staff]

And still you claim the Brexit vote was democratic - except if you are Irish, or Scottish or Welsh.

Here was I thinking they were all part of the UK!!! I think you forgot the Democratic Republic of London who voted Remain and are still having a hissy fit.

I was mainly referring to Southern Ireland, in reference to Merv's comment about how they should leave the EU too. Democratic, when they have not had a vote?
But anyway, you are forgetting Grimsby, who voted leave and their hissy fit.

[Manoverboard]

BTW I do not read the Express/Mail/Sun. Maybe that's why.

Perhaps if you did, albeit for a short period, you would have a better balance of opinion. Whatever you presently read obviously has a different bias but it does not automatically become factual just because you want it to.

Those of us who read Brexit supporting papers get fed with one side but the BBC certainly offers the alternative view.

I have no idea if the stories are factual or not, but the day after the monumental events in Brussels yesterday the Brexit paper headlines today are,
Express: ARCTIC FREEZE TO BLAST BACK
Mail: 200 HELD OVER CHILD SEX ABUSE
Sun: MEGAN: MY RIFT WITH DAD

It's like they don't want people to know what's actually happening. I wonder why.

My guess would be ...

The events in Brussels are thus far encouraging albeit ' inconclusive ' so perhaps they have opted to wait a wee while until there is something concrete to report.

I certainly do not need to know every last detail, good or bad, that is an ongoing part of a very complicated process. There will be logical milestones that us Brexiteers would doubtless wish to read from time to time but unlike your good self, or so it seems, I do not need to wait then pounce on every minor hitch that I have been fed with and then milk it as though it is unsolvable.

Be patient my friend, the end of the World is not upon us.

[Jack Staff]

My guess would be ...

The events in Brussels are thus far encouraging albeit ' inconclusive ' so perhaps they have opted to wait a wee while until there is something concrete to report.

Well it was pretty big news, causing 'urgent' questions in the House replacing TM the PMs scheduled big announcement.

I certainly do not need to know every last detail, good or bad, that is an ongoing part of a very complicated process. There will be logical milestones that us Brexiteers would doubtless wish to read from time to time but unlike your good self, or so it seems, I do not need to wait then pounce on every minor hitch that I have been fed with and then milk it as though it is unsolvable.

So self censorship then. You do not wish to hear bad news. That does explain how Beleavers think Brexit is going well.

Be patient my friend, the end of the World is not upon us.

So all the other newspapers, including the Times, Telegraph, plus TV channels should now just shut up until we achieve 'final victory'?

[Manoverboard]

My guess would be ...

The events in Brussels are thus far encouraging albeit ' inconclusive ' so perhaps they have opted to wait a wee while until there is something concrete to report.

Well it was pretty big news, causing 'urgent' questions in the House replacing TM the PMs scheduled big announcement.

I certainly do not need to know every last detail, good or bad, that is an ongoing part of a very complicated process. There will be logical milestones that us Brexiteers would doubtless wish to read from time to time but unlike your good self, or so it seems, I do not need to wait then pounce on every minor hitch that I have been fed with and then milk it as though it is unsolvable.

So self censorship then. You do not wish to hear bad news. That does explain how Beleavers think Brexit is going well.

Be patient my friend, the end of the World is not upon us.

So all the other newspapers, including the Times, Telegraph, plus TV channels should now just shut up until we achieve 'final victory'?

Of course it was big news but it was also news that we should expect during a negotiating process.

The Daily Mail didn't carry it on the front page but it was certainly comprehensively covered. It wasn't the news that I had hoped for but come the weekend, this or maybe the next, it will all be sorted out and we can all press on with serious matter of trade talks. Your preferred newspapers and TV channels can proclaim whatever they wish, they are simply in the business of selling news albeit not necessarily to me.

[david63]

So all the other newspapers, including the Times, Telegraph, plus TV channels should now just shut up until we achieve 'final victory'?

Yes please - I have heard enough of the "B" word to last me a lifetime - wake me up when it is settled.

[Mervyn and Trish]

And still you claim the Brexit vote was democratic - except if you are Irish, or Scottish or Welsh.

Here was I thinking they were all part of the UK!!! I think you forgot the Democratic Republic of London who voted Remain and are still having a hissy fit.

I was mainly referring to Southern Ireland, in reference to Merv's comment about how they should leave the EU too. Democratic, when they have not had a vote?
But anyway, you are forgetting Grimsby, who voted leave and their hissy fit.

Oh Jack you fail to recognise satire!

But Northern Ireland, which is part of the UK, voted to leave.
Maybe the Irish could move to Scotland and the Scots to Northern Ireland. Then they'll all be happy re the EU. The Irish in Scotland will be joined to England and we'll all be out and don't need a border. And the Scots in Northern Ireland can be in with the Republic and not need to have a border.

And the big plus. We'll be free of Mrs Krankie. That surely is worth £40billion alone?

p.s. Jack, before you bother to respond this is more satire.

[Jack Staff]

So all the other newspapers, including the Times, Telegraph, plus TV channels should now just shut up until we achieve 'final victory'?

Yes please - I have heard enough of the "B" word to last me a lifetime - wake me up when it is settled.

Not sure you got the implications of 'final victory'.

[Jack Staff]

And still you claim the Brexit vote was democratic - except if you are Irish, or Scottish or Welsh.

Here was I thinking they were all part of the UK!!! I think you forgot the Democratic Republic of London who voted Remain and are still having a hissy fit.

I was mainly referring to Southern Ireland, in reference to Merv's comment about how they should leave the EU too. Democratic, when they have not had a vote?
But anyway, you are forgetting Grimsby, who voted leave and their hissy fit.

Oh Jack you fail to recognise satire!

But Northern Ireland, which is part of the UK, voted to leave.
Maybe the Irish could move to Scotland and the Scots to Northern Ireland. Then they'll all be happy re the EU. The Irish in Scotland will be joined to England and we'll all be out and don't need a border. And the Scots in Northern Ireland can be in with the Republic and not need to have a border.

And the big plus. We'll be free of Mrs Krankie. That surely is worth £40billion alone?

p.s. Jack, before you bother to respond this is more satire.

You can call it satire if you want. I call it bovine poo.

[barney]

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-plac ... f-its-own/

After march 2019, we can happily add the UK to that list

[Jack Staff]

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-plac ... f-its-own/

After march 2019, we can happily add the UK to that list

Lovely, the palm trees, mega yachts and the quaint shanty towns.

But we are not physically leaving Europe, so we can forget the palm trees.
The mega yachts belong to the foreigners and the shanty towns are anything but quaint when you have to live in them.

[towny44]

And still you claim the Brexit vote was democratic - except if you are Irish, or Scottish or Welsh.

Here was I thinking they were all part of the UK!!! I think you forgot the Democratic Republic of London who voted Remain and are still having a hissy fit.

I was mainly referring to Southern Ireland, in reference to Merv's comment about how they should leave the EU too. Democratic, when they have not had a vote?
But anyway, you are forgetting Grimsby, who voted leave and their hissy fit.

Oh Jack you fail to recognise satire!

But Northern Ireland, which is part of the UK, voted to leave.
Maybe the Irish could move to Scotland and the Scots to Northern Ireland. Then they'll all be happy re the EU. The Irish in Scotland will be joined to England and we'll all be out and don't need a border. And the Scots in Northern Ireland can be in with the Republic and not need to have a border.

And the big plus. We'll be free of Mrs Krankie. That surely is worth £40billion alone?

p.s. Jack, before you bother to respond this is more satire.

It may be satire but it's still a darned good idea.

[Jack Staff]

I don't see how this solves your problem. Scotland will be an independent country in the EU.

[towny44]

I don't see how this solves your problem. Scotland will be an independent country in the EU.

Jack, do please keep up, we are suggesting that all scots emigrate to NI and vice versa.

[Jack Staff]

I don't see how this solves your problem. Scotland will be an independent country in the EU.

Jack, do please keep up, we are suggesting that all scots emigrate to NI and vice versa.

I still don't understand. NI and Scotland will be independent countries. I admit having EU borders at the North of England and Chepstow to Chester will be inconvenient, oh and the M25 and Cornwall and Grimsby.

[Mervyn and Trish]

The Northern Irish voted to stay in. Keep up Jack. What we used to call Scotland will now be Northern Ireland and still part of the UK but you won't need a flight or boat to get there. What used to be Northern Ireland will be Scotland and can leave the EU and join with ROI.

[Jack Staff]

The Northern Irish voted to stay in. Keep up Jack. What we used to call Scotland will now be Northern Ireland and still part of the UK but you won't need a flight or boat to get there. What used to be Northern Ireland will be Scotland and can leave the EU and join with ROI.

Oh sorry Merv. I thought you meant NI voted leave because it is part of the UK.
You think NI voted leave, in that case you are wrong
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-36614443

[oldbluefox]

I don't see how this solves your problem. Scotland will be an independent country in the EU.

Next time you have your crystal ball out can you look up the lottery numbers for this weekend.
Whilst Sturgeon is keen to bring more immigrants into Scotland maybe she would be well served by housing her own compatriots if those begging on the streets of Glasgow are anything to go by. Of course matters will only improve if they remain in the EU.

[towny44]

I see similarities between football and parliamentary govt. England gave both to the World and the world created FIFA and the arch criminal Sepp Blatter, as well as the EU and drunken Juncker and his oily french predecessor Jacques Delors.
I cannot help but think the World would have been much better if England had retained the rights to both sports.

[barney]

Well, after today's absolute farce from this government there appears to be only two options left.

The first is go cap in hand to the EU and tell them it was all a terrible mistake and can we please stay inside the EU with the same terms and conditions.
It will then be up to the remaining 27 to agree or disagree. My guess is that there would once again be loads of conditions.

The second (and my preferred) is to tell them that the UK cannot and will not meet their pre-contract conditions, so we will be leaving in March 2019 irrespective of if any deal is reached.

There is a very simple question to be asked to the EU team.
That is, do you want a free trade deal with the UK?
Without a straight yes to that question, everything else becomes irrelevant.

As Yanis Varoufakis said in his book, they are impossible to deal with.
Who are the UK actually 'negotiating' with ?
One minute it's Barnier, then Tusk, then Juncker, then Varadakar

It really is time to walk, and if May can't do it, then she needs to be replaced with someone who can.

[oldbluefox]

I never thought I would say it but maybe we should have listened to Michael Foot in 1975.

[oldbluefox]

My feelings are that Mrs May is a Remainer at heart and she is trying to satisfy the Remainers in her party whilst putting on a front that she is progressing Brexit. At the moment it's a right dog's dinner but seems to me she is allowing the EU to dictate the terms. The truth of the matter is the EU does not want us to leave since it causes more problems for them than for us but if they let us leave under favourable terms it may encourage other countries to leave, in particular those who are paying in rather than taking out of the pot. No deal means their trade will be hit just as hard as ours, probably harder since they have a surplus on trade into the UK.
If the EU continues to block everything we try to do then withdraw the £40billion (or whatever it is) and threaten to walk away. Perhaps then the EU leaders will come back to the negotiating table in a much more conciliatory mood.
They know May is weak, they know there is a strong lobby of MPs in the Commons and the Lords who are happy to knock Brexit off track and they are taking advantage. Time to walk.