Brexit

[david63]

My feelings are that Mrs May is a Remainer at heart

She will be as the "official" party line at the time of the Referendum was to remain.

The basic problem is that the EU and the UK are, and always will be, poles apart in what they want. The EU want us to keep paying whatever the amount is that we are currently paying with all the strings attached. The UK want to pay as little as possible (preferably nothing) and still have full access to trade and customs with no strings attached - it's just not going to happen.

If we offer to continue paying our £350m (or whatever it is) a week then we can have a deal tomorrow (possibly even today!)

[barney]

My feelings are that Mrs May is a Remainer at heart and she is trying to satisfy the Remainers in her party whilst putting on a front that she is progressing Brexit. At the moment it's a right dog's dinner but seems to me she is allowing the EU to dictate the terms. The truth of the matter is the EU does not want us to leave since it causes more problems for them than for us but if they let us leave under favourable terms it may encourage other countries to leave, in particular those who are paying in rather than taking out of the pot. No deal means their trade will be hit just as hard as ours, probably harder since they have a surplus on trade into the UK.
If the EU continues to block everything we try to do then withdraw the £40billion (or whatever it is) and threaten to walk away. Perhaps then the EU leaders will come back to the negotiating table in a much more conciliatory mood.
They know May is weak, they know there is a strong lobby of MPs in the Commons and the Lords who are happy to knock Brexit off track and they are taking advantage. Time to walk.

Spot on OBF

It's about time that the Quislings understood the real damage that they are doing by undermining at every opportunity.

If I hear the phrase, " I understand we are leaving BUT" once more I'll scream.

There are no BUTS. The UK is leaving the EU and everyone should get behind the government of the day to ensure it's as good as it can be.

I often wonder if Labour would have done a better job because the Tories sure ain't.

Some poor, deluded fools seem to think that Labour would stop Brexit if they got into power. That couldn't be further from the truth. Jezza is a harder Brexiteer than May any day of the week.

[oldbluefox]

If we offer to continue paying our £350m (or whatever it is) a week then we can have a deal tomorrow (possibly even today!)

.................................... and we can pretend we have left the EU.

[towny44]

.............I often wonder if Labour would have done a better job because the Tories sure ain't.

Some poor, deluded fools seem to think that Labour would stop Brexit if they got into power. That couldn't be further from the truth. Jezza is a harder Brexiteer than May any day of the week.

Not sure I agree with that Barney, I think that Labour would be inclined to want to stay in the single market and the customs union with all the regulations that entails, and the dreaded ECJ as well.
Not the sort of Brexit I want at all.

[Mervyn and Trish]

The Northern Irish voted to stay in. Keep up Jack. What we used to call Scotland will now be Northern Ireland and still part of the UK but you won't need a flight or boat to get there. What used to be Northern Ireland will be Scotland and can leave the EU and join with ROI.

Oh sorry Merv. I thought you meant NI voted leave because it is part of the UK.
You think NI voted leave, in that case you are wrong
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-36614443

Of course you are right Jack. My sincere apologies.

However it actually improves my plan and gives another huge advantage. If just the Scottish Remainers moved to N. Ireland and the N. Ireland Leavers moved to Scotland, there are rathert more of the former than the latter. So not only would everybody be in or out of the EU as they desired, it would solve the UK housing crisis at a stroke and makes the net migration figures swing the other way. And we still have the miles of sea between us and Mrs Krankie as a bonus!

[Happydays]

Well Merv I don't like that idea at all I voted to leave and have bought my house etc so shall NOT be going to NI to please any of you

[towny44]

Well Merv I don't like that idea at all I voted to leave and have bought my house etc so shall NOT be going to NI to please any of you

Do keep up HD, Merv was suggesting only Scottish remainers move to NI, you would stay and be joined the NI leavers. I cannot see a problem with that scenario especially as all the SNP MSPs would end up in NI along with Ms Krankie, it might prove a problem for Ireland to swallow though.

[Happydays]

Well Merv I don't like that idea at all I voted to leave and have bought my house etc so shall NOT be going to NI to please any of you

Do keep up HD, Merv was suggesting only Scottish remainers move to NI, you would stay and be joined the NI leavers. I cannot see a problem with that scenario especially as all the SNP MSPs would end up in NI along with Ms Krankie, it might prove a problem for Ireland to swallow though.

OK, I will go along with that getting rid of the remainwers and Krankie for me would be win win
Sorry Merv, that I misunderstood

[oldbluefox]

Why are we bothering with Brexit? Martin Schulz, Leader of the German SDP openly calls for a United States of Europe. He also says that any country who refuses should be booted out of the EU. He could be saving us a lot of money and a lot of hassle.
It also gives you a good idea of the direction the EU is moving; something which the Remainers don't like to mention.

[david63]

It also gives you a good idea of the direction the EU is moving

I have said this before - Germany is doing by the "back door" what it failed to do 70 years ago!

[barney]

The status quo was never on the ballot paper. It was either leave or continued expansion and more EU. The Remoaners and Quislings seem oblivious to this fact.

[oldbluefox]

These are the bits the Remoaners do not want to acknowledge. All ideas of the Federal Europe are conveniently swept under the carpet but if we stay this is where we are headed.
How ironic that this was forecasted 42 years years ago by Michael Foot. Uncanny really. But maybe those who voted for Brexit were a little more savvy than they are given credit for.

[towny44]

All this pesky talk about nearing a deal on the NI border is ruining the competitiveness of Sterling for UK exporters, it's nearly back to pre-referendum levels!

[Manoverboard]

Ireland .... tick.

So at last we are heading for the trade talks ... what looming disaster will Jack flag up next I wonder ?

[barney]

It's apparent that for all the posturing, the EU team recognise the need for a smooth exit and some sort of trade deal.
It's mutually beneficial.

So, the question to be asked is, tariffs or tariff free and to cover which areas.
If it's to be tariffs, then at what level.
We are in a position to agree to anything they want as it would benefit the UK.


It is only as complicated as the EU wish to make it, to save face.

They clearly cannot be seen to give the UK any deal that is equal to what we have as a full member.
That would lead to other net contributors questioning the sense of remaining.

I personally can't see how this agreement can work, but hey ho, that's for them to sort out.
Outside the single market and outside the customs union, but with the same regulations ?????
I don't know how the EU can square that circle when the UK starts doing it's own trade deals around the world.

What this government mustn't do is allow the EU to cherry pick what they want from any deal.
IE an agreement of food and manufacturing for example but not for the financial service industry.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.

[david63]

I think I must be having a "senior moment" here - the agreement is that there will be no hard border in NI, EU citizens living in the UK will have their rights protected as will UK citizens living in the EU and we have agreed a "divorce" bill of less than had been previously suggested. All of this was on the table six months ago!

I think I have lost the plot (again!) and am rapidly loosing the will to live

[towny44]

Just watching Daily Politics and Jo Cockburn trying to fully understand what the NI deal entails, as if anyone outside the actual negotiations has any clue what went on. My guess is that we will need to wait 30 years until the relevant cabinet discussions will be available under the freedom of information act, by which time it will be even less relevant than it is today.
About the only thing I am pleased about is that the talking heads on all these TV programmes are not involved in the negotiations.

[oldbluefox]

I think I must be having a "senior moment" here - the agreement is that there will be no hard border in NI, EU citizens living in the UK will have their rights protected as will UK citizens living in the EU and we have agreed a "divorce" bill of less than had been previously suggested. All of this was on the table six months ago!

I think I have lost the plot (again!) and am rapidly loosing the will to live

It sounds good but is the devil in the detail? The EU are sounding very positive and conciliatory at the moment. Have they woken up and realised we are leaving so best to talk to us or has a quiet deal been made with them which will eventually come out quietly in the wash thus preventing a huge furore?
No mention of the ECJ................ Time will tell.

[barney]

I understand that the ECJ will have jurisdiction over disputes concerning EU citizens for eight years after the UK has left.
A nice compromise in my book.
The UK wanted none, the EU wanted inperptuity

[Manoverboard]

The ECJ, it was said on the BBC Breakfast show this morning, will have ' a say ' for approx eight more years but only in a small number of cases and nothing of major significance. Their involvement related to EU citizens only.

No mention of Albanian murderers and the like, at this stage.

ps ... sorry Barney, didn't see your post.


.

[oldbluefox]

EU.jpg

[screwy]

Where's Jack.??

[Manoverboard]

He's waiting for some negative Brexit news

[towny44]

He is obviously not watching the BBC then, since that's all you ever get from them.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I'm definitely going off that Laura Kuennsberg.

If the EU decided to give us free trade and paid us £50bn per year for it she'd spot a snag!

Is she Jack's love child?