Brexit

[gilly88]

Oh come on we must be, all the liberal southerners said we were.

Can I come out of hiding now that it's safe? I take it the world has not come to an end and GB Inc has not collapsed?

not quite yet foxy, if the lords have anything to do with it we will be crashing out with no deal. they are doing this country a great disservice if they continue to vote down all the options. Theresa may will have her hands tied as she goes to the final line and the EU know it and will take advantage of her weaknesses.

[barney]

I'm actually amazed that so called educated people could think that it's better to stay within the Customs Union than leave it and strike our own deals around the world.
Surely they understand that once we leave in April next year BUT remain in the Customs Union, that all future EU legislation will apply to us even though we can not have a say in it.
So, basically, the EU Commission makes the rules and we abide by them.
How mental is that ?????
No trade deals with countries outside of the EU, unless they negotiate on our behalf.
Any knew legislation will apply to the UK even though we are outside of the EU.
We will continue to contribute and continue with free movement of all EU citizens.
Oh ! and the ECJ will still over rule UK High Courts.

But, technically, we will have left the EU.

It almost defies belief that anyone can think that will be acceptable to the public.

The handling of all of this is nothing short of a disgrace by the Tory government.
Shame on May and shame on all of those MPs who are disregarding their constituants vote.

I still believe that our stance should have been that we are leaving in April 2019. If we can negotiate a deal before then, then fine.
If not, we leave on that date and we'll continue to talk as any other 'third country' to see if a trade agreement can be reached.
In the mean time, we trade with all other countries on standard WTO terms.
If EU countries want full and free access to the UK market, a deal has to be done.

[Ray Scully]

AND IT WAS ALL GOING TO BE SO EASY. THE EU WOULD BE FALLING OVER THEMSELVES TO GIVE US WHAT WE WANTED. CONNED DOESN'T START TO DESCRIBE THE SITUATION

[towny44]

AND IT WAS ALL GOING TO BE SO EASY. THE EU WOULD BE FALLING OVER THEMSELVES TO GIVE US WHAT WE WANTED. CONNED DOESN'T START TO DESCRIBE THE SITUATION

Hardly conned Ray, we all knew the EU would play hard ball to try and coerce us into timidly staying in the EU.. But even Barnier admits that about 75% is agreed and the only major stumbling block is the Irish border, and as I have said before if we were to subcontract this to Amazon I reckon they would sort it in a couple of weeks.

[barney]

It's not that difficult Ray if the will was there from our so called leaders.if we didn't do difficult you and I would be speaking German now.

[oldbluefox]

Archbishop Sentamu made a valid point on QT today. He asked what is so difficult about trading with the EU and the rest of the world? The problem is the EU want total control over their member states and our political leaders in the Commons and the Lords all have vested interests in the EU. The EU are going to drive a hard bargain. They will want to preserve as much of the status quo as they can and the EU need us as much as we need them. If no agreement is reached I say we walk away with no deal. No deal is better than a bad deal. Some seem to think a bad deal is the better option.
On the other hand Switzerland is party to a bilateral agreement. Their citizens rejected membership of the EU (which was accepted unlike the tantrums we are experiencing) and that seems to satisy both sides. Agreement is not an impossibility unless somebody is playing silly beggars.

[Ray Scully]

AND IT WAS ALL GOING TO BE SO EASY. THE EU WOULD BE FALLING OVER THEMSELVES TO GIVE US WHAT WE WANTED. CONNED DOESN'T START TO DESCRIBE THE SITUATION

Hardly conned Ray, we all knew the EU would play hard ball to try and coerce us into timidly staying in the EU.. But even Barnier admits that about 75% is agreed and the only major stumbling block is the Irish border, and as I have said before if we were to subcontract this to Amazon I reckon they would sort it in a couple of weeks.

Conned mislead lied too, take your pick. Messrs Bojo and cohorts did not even suggest the negotiations would be anything but 'a walk in the park'

[Mervyn and Trish]

You must have heard a different campaign from me Ray. I never heard anyone say it would be an easy transition.

I did hear the Remain campaign say interest rates would rise rapidly. Unemployment would increase. There'd be an emergency budget to raise taxes. We'd go into recession. And I heard Call Me Dave say that whichever way we voted he'd lead us through it. Oh yes on reflection you're right. There were a lot of lies weren't there.

[barney]

A massive week for Turncoat Teresa with the 'brexit cabinet' meeting later this week.
If the papers are to be believed, she's about to totally sell out the majority vote and not only agree to a 'customs arrangement' but also give priority to EU citizens with reference to incoming migration.

I've already decided that should our sell out PM agree to this, I shall never bother to vote again at any future elections.

If however, she sticks to her manifesto pledges, the Tory Remoaners will most certainly attempt to bring her down and it will pave the way for a Labour government.

Which ever way it goes, I can easily see May gone within a few weeks.

Whether a Brexiteer can muster enough MP votes to become the new leader is debatable.
Whether that would satisfy the electoate for a second time also remains to be seen.

Anyway, Vince Cable is on standby to form a Government.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Vince Cable doesn't have enough MPs to form a rugby league team, let alone a government!

[Ray Scully]

Well it is certainly looking as though the tail is not going to wag the dog

[oldbluefox]

Has Ray resorted to talking in riddles? I think he's been listening to Diane Abbott.

[Mervyn and Trish]

If Diane Abbot ever becomes Home Secretary I hope we can stay in the EU so I can emigrate. Anywhere.

[Ray Scully]

Ms Abbot is one of the 3 reasons why I as a socialist will not be voting Labour in the near future

[barney]

Let me take an absolutely wild stab at the other two Ray.

Could it be Corbyn & Mcdonnell by any chance?

Better get used to them mate because there is a better than even chance that they will be forming the next government.
The days of a left of centre Labour Party are gone for a generation.
It' seems that the public will not be satisfied until they have been given their chance to muck up.

The very best thing about being in opposition is that you only have to say what you are going to do without having to actually do it.
So, free beer for all and a unicorn for every child.

[oldbluefox]

I see the EU is set to increase the seven year budget post Brexit to 1.25 trillion Euros. Eight Eastern European members have voted to accept it. Well, since they are the ones who will benefit they would wouldn't they? I wonder how the Germans, French, Italians & Co feel about having to dig a little bit deeper.

[towny44]

Whilst I am very glad to be leaving the EU, I am surprised that few pundits seem to have laid the blame for this fiasco with the leaders of the EU for their stupidity in not agreeing to more favourable re-negotiation terms with David Cameron.
A more conciliatory approach from them during his discussions, and deeper concessions to DC's demands would quite probably have resulted in a vote to remain back in 2016.
I would have been deeply disappointed with that result but would have been quite prepared to accept it and hope that the UK could have helped to anchor in some of the more extreme federal aspirations of Germany and France.

[oldbluefox]

In all the debates nobody has mentioned the lengths Cameron went to to secure better terms for the UK in the EU which could well have satisfied many voters and would have swung the vote in favour of remaining. He literally returned pre-referendum with nothing to offer, which only goes to show the intransigence of EU states. His forays into Europe and attempts to sway the vote are largely ignored by the Remain camp.

[Ray Scully]

In all the debates nobody has mentioned the lengths Cameron went to to secure better terms for the UK in the EU which could well have satisfied many voters and would have swung the vote in favour of remaining. He literally returned pre-referendum with nothing to offer, which only goes to show the intransigence of EU states. His forays into Europe and attempts to sway the vote are largely ignored by the Remain camp.

For me as with other failings of the EU the blame lies at the door of Angela Merkel

[oldbluefox]

I used to think she was a great chancellor for Germany but over time I am beginning to think she is like so many strong characters and is getting too powerful and dictatorial not only in Germany but within the EU.

[barney]

In all the debates nobody has mentioned the lengths Cameron went to to secure better terms for the UK in the EU which could well have satisfied many voters and would have swung the vote in favour of remaining. He literally returned pre-referendum with nothing to offer, which only goes to show the intransigence of EU states. His forays into Europe and attempts to sway the vote are largely ignored by the Remain camp.

Many in the EU thought that the UK already had too many concessions Foxy.

We had a rebate on contributions ( far larger than any other country )
We were not in Shengen
We were not in the Euro
We often blocked new legislation that was not in our interest.
We were generally seen as the 'naughty corner' who refused to roll over and accept what the majority in the EU wanted.
Basically, we were a bit of a pain in the a*se for Brussels.

What they did like about us was the disproportionate funding that we supplied.
Germany funds more gets a massive return on the benefit of a low value Euro as opposed to a high value Mark, on exports.
France benefits hugely from the CAP, so actually runs on hardly any deficit.
The UK runs at about an £8 billion (conservative figure) deficit.
The EU leaders know this but had little else to offer Cameron.
He asked for a temporary stop on immigration, but that strikes in the face of the indivisible four pillars.

So that situation we now find ourselves in is beacuse the majority of UK voters never really bought into the 'Project'

A trading agreement would be fine for everyone, but a political project has never sat well with many in this country.

Most Remainers blind themselves to the simple fact that the constitution of the EU demands more EU. They blithly carry on as if the status quo is an option. It is not and has never been. To remain in the EU would mean more power to Brussels. An expanded EU with more poorer eastern countries joining and the richer countries (us) expected to subsidise them.

I'm content for the UK to become a 'third country'
I'm content for the UK to trade happliy with the EU 27 on what ever terms are agreed.
I'm content for the UK to trade with every other country in the world on terms that we agree with them, not with Brussels speaking on our behalf.
I'm content to hold our own politicians to account without any blame laid at the door of Brussels.
I'm content to become a normal, independent country.
That's not asking for too much is it?

[towny44]

In all the debates nobody has mentioned the lengths Cameron went to to secure better terms for the UK in the EU which could well have satisfied many voters and would have swung the vote in favour of remaining. He literally returned pre-referendum with nothing to offer, which only goes to show the intransigence of EU states. His forays into Europe and attempts to sway the vote are largely ignored by the Remain camp.

Many in the EU thought that the UK already had too many concessions Foxy.

We had a rebate on contributions ( far larger than any other country )
We were not in Shengen
We were not in the Euro
We often blocked new legislation that was not in our interest.
We were generally seen as the 'naughty corner' who refused to roll over and accept what the majority in the EU wanted.
Basically, we were a bit of a pain in the a*se for Brussels.

What they did like about us was the disproportionate funding that we supplied.
Germany funds more gets a massive return on the benefit of a low value Euro as opposed to a high value Mark, on exports.
France benefits hugely from the CAP, so actually runs on hardly any deficit.
The UK runs at about an £8 billion (conservative figure) deficit.
The EU leaders know this but had little else to offer Cameron.
He asked for a temporary stop on immigration, but that strikes in the face of the indivisible four pillars.

So that situation we now find ourselves in is beacuse the majority of UK voters never really bought into the 'Project'

A trading agreement would be fine for everyone, but a political project has never sat well with many in this country.

Most Remainers blind themselves to the simple fact that the constitution of the EU demands more EU. They blithly carry on as if the status quo is an option. It is not and has never been. To remain in the EU would mean more power to Brussels. An expanded EU with more poorer eastern countries joining and the richer countries (us) expected to subsidise them.

I'm content for the UK to become a 'third country'
I'm content for the UK to trade happliy with the EU 27 on what ever terms are agreed.
I'm content for the UK to trade with every other country in the world on terms that we agree with them, not with Brussels speaking on our behalf.
I'm content to hold our own politicians to account without any blame laid at the door of Brussels.
I'm content to become a normal, independent country.
That's not asking for too much is it?

Not asking too much at all Barney, but the Remainers think you made the wrong choices and would like to re-educate you, and with a little help from the unelected Lords, they hope to do just that.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Whilst I am very glad to be leaving the EU, I am surprised that few pundits seem to have laid the blame for this fiasco with the leaders of the EU for their stupidity in not agreeing to more favourable re-negotiation terms with David Cameron.
A more conciliatory approach from them during his discussions, and deeper concessions to DC's demands would quite probably have resulted in a vote to remain back in 2016.
I would have been deeply disappointed with that result but would have been quite prepared to accept it and hope that the UK could have helped to anchor in some of the more extreme federal aspirations of Germany and France.

I blame them and Cameron too. He was so out of touch in his metropolitan bubble he never believed we'd vote out. He should have had the balls to tell the other EU leaders that their minimal concessions weren't good enough and he was going home to lead the Out campaign. Instead I have no doubt he told them the exact opposite.

[Manoverboard]

Once we are out and ' sorted ' it will deffo be time to reform the House of Lords

[Ray Scully]

Once we are out and ' sorted ' it will deffo be time to reform the House of Lords

The revolution will take center stage once folk realise the effects on them of Brexit and that they had been mighty conned