Brexit

[towny44]

You cannot argue against political doctrine towny.

Preserving the Brussels gravy train over rides everything else.

Political stupidity more likely Barney, I am beginning to be seriously worried that we are not going to be allowed to leave, which presumably will please Jack and Ray.

[Jack Staff]

Hi Barney, we have common ground, who'd have thought!

I should just point out that a party system works in the EU in the same way as Westminster. UK MEPs are usually members of a group in the EU.
As well as the EU Parliaments Brexit negotiator, Guy Verhofstadt is the leader of the ALDE (Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe Party) and as such it should come as no surprise that they meet. Being a pro-EU party I'm sure "best ways of undermining and disrupting Brexit" are high on the agenda.

I'm sure the UKIP members have regular meetings with their continental far right colleagues to discuss ways of disrupting the EU as well.

Did you know that 20 UK MEPs, lead by the single Liberal in Brussels, have a monthly meeting with Guy Verhofstadt to discuss the best ways of undermining and disrupting Brexit.

[Jack Staff]

Political stupidity more likely Barney, I am beginning to be seriously worried that we are not going to be allowed to leave, which presumably will please Jack and Ray.

We are allowed to leave as long as we abide by the rules which we the British wrote. (John Kerr, Baron Kerr of Kinlochard)

[towny44]

Political stupidity more likely Barney, I am beginning to be seriously worried that we are not going to be allowed to leave, which presumably will please Jack and Ray.

We are allowed to leave as long as we abide by the rules which we the British wrote. (John Kerr, Baron Kerr of Kinlochard)

Do please remember Jack that rules are for the guidance of wise men and the observance of fools.
Mind you its almost impossible to find a wise man in Brussels.

[barney]

Political stupidity more likely Barney, I am beginning to be seriously worried that we are not going to be allowed to leave, which presumably will please Jack and Ray.

We are allowed to leave as long as we abide by the rules which we the British wrote. (John Kerr, Baron Kerr of Kinlochard)

you clearly haven't read Article 50 Jack or you would know the content.

Should any member wish to leave then two years notice must be given (we have) and that BOTH parties are obliged to see that there is an orderly departure.
To a layman, it appears that the EU are doing everything possible to make sure that our departure is anything but orderly.

You know my view.
I'd simply leave on the given date
No transition.
No 'divorce' payment.
We should have all the port infastruture in place by know both between us and the continent and us and Ireland.
Maybe charge them a small fee for passing through and ruining our roads.
No border our side in Ireland, if the EU feel the need to protect their external border, they can explain it to the Irish.
Then start discussing any trade deals, should they wish to.

After contibuting over £250 billion into EU coffers over our memebrship, you'd think that they would be a bit grateful.
Our tax, yours and mine Jack, assuming you pay any, has financed and rebuilt half of Eastern Europe.

[Ray Scully]

Well well!!! its going from bad to worse, our new best friend Donald is showing his true colours with respect to trade policies, that of the playground bully. Now I am sure that anyone who has tried to befriend the playground bully knows that it ends in tears.

[barney]

Of course that is not aimed at us Ray. It is aimed at the EU. We are merely collateral damage by association. That will hopefully change.

[Jack Staff]

you clearly haven't read Article 50 Jack or you would know the content.

Should any member wish to leave then two years notice must be given (we have) and that BOTH parties are obliged to see that there is an orderly departure.

And to that end the EU have asked us what we intend to do about EU citizens in the UK post Brexit and the Irish border.

To a layman, it appears that the EU are doing everything possible to make sure that our departure is anything but orderly.

As WE have not yet answered these questions, it is us that is not ensuring an orderly departure.

You know my view.
I'd simply leave on the given date
No transition.
No 'divorce' payment.
We should have all the port infastruture in place by know both between us and the continent and us and Ireland.

The Dutch have recruited thousands of customs officers, vets and the like already. We haven't.

Maybe charge them a small fee for passing through and ruining our roads.

Not now required. New direct ferry services are on hand between Ireland and the continent. This will ruin the town of Holyhead and the (trunk) roads are currently part subsidised by the EU.

No border our side in Ireland, if the EU feel the need to protect their external border, they can explain it to the Irish.

I thought controlling our borders was the motive of Brexit, if not what was it all for?

Anyway, a border is required for a country to trade under WTO rules. We HAVE to have one or not leave the SM/CU. The government can't grasp this either.

Then start discussing any trade deals, should they wish to.

Who with? We will have annoyed the EU so much by implementing your plan I'd be surprised if they ever talked to us again! Trumps America first means tariffs from the get go and everyone else is far more interested with their own EU trade deal.

After contibuting over £250 billion into EU coffers over our memebrship, you'd think that they would be a bit grateful.

Why? Because British money is better than anyone elses?

Our tax, yours and mine Jack, assuming you pay any, has financed and rebuilt half of Eastern Europe.

I pay a lot of tax, thank you. It has also rebuilt Wales, but they are foreigners too right?

[Jack Staff]

Of course that is not aimed at us Ray. It is aimed at the EU. We are merely collateral damage by association. That will hopefully change.

Hopefully we can have chlorinated chicken, hormone beef and American healthcare.

Remember "America first" and "Make America grate again" - no mention of us.

[Manoverboard]

That'll be due to the coal they want to sell I take it

[Jack Staff]

That'll be due to the coal they want to sell I take it

Well I thought it was funny. Though the emphasis was not mine.

[Ray Scully]

Of course that is not aimed at us Ray. It is aimed at the EU. We are merely collateral damage by association. That will hopefully change.

Barney I am becoming more and more an admirer of you. The worse the Brexit case looks, your stoical support is unflinching. You do show the best characteristics of a Brit, albeit a little misguided at times

[barney]

I was being slightly jokey about that Ray.

[barney]

I'm quite sure that the 17 million plus who voted to leave the EU never could have imagined the utter incompetence of the sitting government. It almost defies belief.

[screwy]

I'm quite sure that the 17 million plus who voted to leave the EU never could have imagined the utter incompetence of the sitting government. It almost defies belief.

Lets just be grateful it isn't 'the other lot ' sitting in Govt, think how catastrophic it would look then..!

[Jack Staff]

I'm quite sure that the 17 million plus who voted to leave the EU never could have imagined the utter incompetence of the sitting government. It almost defies belief.

Just imagine how the 16 million plus who voted to remain in the EU feel. This situation is not going to end well!

[towny44]

I'm quite sure that the 17 million plus who voted to leave the EU never could have imagined the utter incompetence of the sitting government. It almost defies belief.

Just imagine how the 16 million plus who voted to remain in the EU feel. This situation is not going to end well!

I doubt it will ever end, its likely to become our real live groundhog day!

[Jack Staff]

I doubt it will ever end, its likely to become our real live groundhog day!

... and all because a certain David Cameron (remember him?) thought a referendum would solve the internal problems of the Conservative party.

[Manoverboard]

I'm quite sure that the 17 million plus who voted to leave the EU never could have imagined the utter incompetence of the sitting government. It almost defies belief.

Surely the Government is trying to please everybody and not just the small majority … I voted to leave but didn't expect the Remainers and the EU to be swept aside in a tide of ' Yippee, we're out at last '.

[towny44]

I doubt it will ever end, its likely to become our real live groundhog day!

... and all because a certain David Cameron (remember him?) thought a referendum would solve the internal problems of the Conservative party.

Possibly true but he was fulfilling a manifesto promise, and if the intransigent EU had been more sympathetic and accommodating about his fairly minimal requests for change it may well ended differently. Just a shame our Groundhog day starts the day after the referendum rather than before DC's negotiations.

[Ray Scully]

A happy boy realising that his new best friend is the schoolyard bully

Happy Brexiteer.jpg

[Jack Staff]

I doubt it will ever end, its likely to become our real live groundhog day!

... and all because a certain David Cameron (remember him?) thought a referendum would solve the internal problems of the Conservative party.

Possibly true but he was fulfilling a manifesto promise, and if the intransigent EU had been more sympathetic and accommodating about his fairly minimal requests for change it may well ended differently. Just a shame our Groundhog day starts the day after the referendum rather than before DC's negotiations.

A manifesto promise to try and solve the internal problems of the Conservative party.
The EU does not like to be bullied and that is what DC had to (be seen to) do. We are quite happy when the EU says non/nine to other countries (Greece springs to mind).
However, the EU does take on board and in time, considers ideas put to it. For example workers pay, this is what the EU did this week to stop 'them comin' over 'ere, undercutting our workers' https://www.rte.ie/news/europe/2018/0529/966871-eu-pay/ But this type of thing is just not reported in the British press.
DC never could go to Brussels and demand. Rightly they told him to go away. But the problems he rose are EU wide and the solutions are coming democratically decided upon by the 27/28 nations.

It is the fault of the British that we think of the EU as a country that we are equal to, rather than a group of 27 other nations, with 10 times the population, that have to be talked to/with. Gun boat diplomacy is so 19th century.

[towny44]

I doubt it will ever end, its likely to become our real live groundhog day!

... and all because a certain David Cameron (remember him?) thought a referendum would solve the internal problems of the Conservative party.

Possibly true but he was fulfilling a manifesto promise, and if the intransigent EU had been more sympathetic and accommodating about his fairly minimal requests for change it may well ended differently. Just a shame our Groundhog day starts the day after the referendum rather than before DC's negotiations.

A manifesto promise to try and solve the internal problems of the Conservative party.
The EU does not like to be bullied and that is what DC had to (be seen to) do. We are quite happy when the EU says non/nine to other countries (Greece springs to mind).
However, the EU does take on board and in time, considers ideas put to it. For example workers pay, this is what the EU did this week to stop 'them comin' over 'ere, undercutting our workers' https://www.rte.ie/news/europe/2018/0529/966871-eu-pay/ But this type of thing is just not reported in the British press.
DC never could go to Brussels and demand. Rightly they told him to go away. But the problems he rose are EU wide and the solutions are coming democratically decided upon by the 27/28 nations.

It is the fault of the British that we think of the EU as a country that we are equal to, rather than a group of 27 other nations, with 10 times the population, that have to be talked to/with. Gun boat diplomacy is so 19th century.

You do talk a load of rubbish Jack, I accept you seem to believe this bu****t but in my opinion you are in an small extreme left wing minority.

[Jack Staff]

You do talk a load of rubbish Jack, I accept you seem to believe this bu****t but in my opinion you are in an small extreme left wing minority.

Why? What's wrong with this bu****t? Of course it is only my opinion, but I believe it to be basically correct.

Your opinion that I am in a small (very large, actually) extreme (I'm very moderate politically) left wing (definitely not, it's just that Labour currently are irrelevant) minority (the next vote will see).

[Ray Scully]

DEFINITION:

Bullsh**t An opposing point of view no matter how credible or laudable