Brexit

[david63]

David Davis thinks that a rerun referendum would end up 60-40 in favour of leave, I think I would agree with him.

I am not convinced, it would all depend on the "propaganda" and it could easily go the other way.

[Onelife]

It's 2/7 on 5/2 against there being ha 2nd referendum...You don't get many 2/7 shots turned over especially in a two horse race.

[Jack Staff]

Jack
A little light reading for you just to redress the balance

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... advantage/

Gerrymandering ?

Can't read most of it because I am too tight to pay a subscription.

But I can read "the like of which should be outlawed in future votes, an independent commission has suggested."

.. and that is the point. Remain was legal, whether you think that was right or not.

Both Leave groups broke the law. It was a flawed vote.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Could you not read the words Remain, Unfair and Advantage?

[Jack Staff]

Could you not read the words Remain, Unfair and Advantage?

Can you read the word illegal?

[towny44]

Could you not read the words Remain, Unfair and Advantage?

Can you read the word illegal?

No Jack, the leave campaign broke the election laws but, for you sad to say, that does not, never has and never will invalidate an election result.
Only sore losers can't accept that they lost Jack.

[Jack Staff]

Could you not read the words Remain, Unfair and Advantage?

Can you read the word illegal?

No Jack, the leave campaign broke the election laws

Yes, both Leave campaigns broke British law.

but, for you sad to say, that does not, never has and never will invalidate an election result.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36681475
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24436773
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/worl ... dinga.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian ... tion,_2004

Only sore losers can't accept that they lost Jack.

Cheaters never win.

[towny44]

Could you not read the words Remain, Unfair and Advantage?

Can you read the word illegal?

No Jack, the leave campaign broke the election laws

Yes, both Leave campaigns broke British law.

but, for you sad to say, that does not, never has and never will invalidate an election result.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36681475
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24436773
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/worl ... dinga.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian ... tion,_2004

Only sore losers can't accept that they lost Jack.

Cheaters never win.

Wrongly counting postal votes has nothing whatsoever to do with overspending by campaigners, for goodness Jack stop squirming you're embarrassing yourself.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Cheaters never win.

So you don't think that being unfair is cheating then Jack? In your world it is okay to be unfair so long as it is not actually illegal. Grest lesson in morality. I must pass that on to my grandchildren.

[Jack Staff]

Cheaters never win.

So you don't think that being unfair is cheating then Jack? In your world it is okay to be unfair so long as it is not actually illegal. Grest lesson in morality. I must pass that on to my grandchildren.

Thank you Merv. Maybe you are starting to get it.
I think something that is illegal is illegal. The law. British law, not to be broken. You should be thinking why was it broken and who broke it.
Something that is legal is legal. If you don't like it, you campaign to have the law changed.

Breaking the law on the vote, calling judges "traitors", bypassing parliamentary control and the rest.
In your brave new Brexity world it is ok to ignore British law to achieve your aim.
This is why I said cheaters never win. It will now be ok for any group to do whatever they want.
What forces are you unleashing? I hope your grandchildren will be taught this period in school, as a warning.

[barney]

I've got shock news Jack. Leave has already won. It's over. It's either Mays offer or WTO.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Cheaters never win.

So you don't think that being unfair is cheating then Jack? In your world it is okay to be unfair so long as it is not actually illegal. Grest lesson in morality. I must pass that on to my grandchildren.

Thank you Merv. Maybe you are starting to get it.
I think something that is illegal is illegal. The law. British law, not to be broken. You should be thinking why was it broken and who broke it.
Something that is legal is legal. If you don't like it, you campaign to have the law changed.

Breaking the law on the vote, calling judges "traitors", bypassing parliamentary control and the rest.
In your brave new Brexity world it is ok to ignore British law to achieve your aim.
This is why I said cheaters never win. It will now be ok for any group to do whatever they want.
What forces are you unleashing? I hope your grandchildren will be taught this period in school, as a warning.

You didn't answer that bit Jack.

No I don't think it is right to break the law.

But apparently a modest overspend, while it may be illegal, and may land the guilty in hot water, does not mean the referendum was illegal. Unless the lawyer Tony Blair has missed a trick in the time since the poll.

[Stephen]

1. The country voted
2. The majority voted to leave the EU
3. End of.

What happens next is in the lap of politicians and EU bureaucrats, but don't panic, the world won't end.

[Jack Staff]

Cheaters never win.

So you don't think that being unfair is cheating then Jack? In your world it is okay to be unfair so long as it is not actually illegal. Grest lesson in morality. I must pass that on to my grandchildren.

Thank you Merv. Maybe you are starting to get it.
I think something that is illegal is illegal. The law. British law, not to be broken. You should be thinking why was it broken and who broke it.
Something that is legal is legal. If you don't like it, you campaign to have the law changed.

Breaking the law on the vote, calling judges "traitors", bypassing parliamentary control and the rest.
In your brave new Brexity world it is ok to ignore British law to achieve your aim.
This is why I said cheaters never win. It will now be ok for any group to do whatever they want.
What forces are you unleashing? I hope your grandchildren will be taught this period in school, as a warning.

You didn't answer that bit Jack.

No I don't think it is right to break the law.

But apparently a modest overspend, while it may be illegal, and may land the guilty in hot water, does not mean the referendum was illegal. Unless the lawyer Tony Blair has missed a trick in the time since the poll.

[Jack Staff]

1. The country voted
2. The majority voted to leave the EU
3. End of.

What happens next is in the lap of politicians and EU bureaucrats, but don't panic, the world won't end.

... and then what?
With the fabric of British law trashed by the Brexit shenanigans, what is to stop the Sharia Front of Great Britain stealing a vote?

[Mervyn and Trish]

Just for the record Jack, I was not convinced to vote Leave by the Vote Leave campaign, irrespective of whether it was illegal or misleading.

My inclination was towards Leave even before the referendum was called, because, among other things, of the way the EU was riding roughshod over national governments, and the will of the UK people, and their mantra about ever closer union. More of the same and worse. Because of the crass rulings of the European courts. Because of their inefficiency. Where in any sane society would you relocate parliament for one week per month at huge cost in time and money to appease one member country? Where in a "Common Market" would you sacrifice one country's industry to benefit another's? There is nothing Common about the market, and nothing Union about the EU, It's all about those thirsty for power and domination over their neighbours. Including second rate Sir Humphreys like Juncker and Tusk.

I don't know about you Jack but I travel in Europe and have seen the damage the EU and the Euro have done, making the poorer countries poorer and the richer countries richer, quite the opposite of the founding principles of the EU. Creating mass unemployment, especially for young people. You bang on, speculatively, about the impact of Brexit on our grandchildren. I've seen the evidence right now of the impact of the EU on children and grandchildren in other countries. We have a flow of EU migrants to the UK, not because it's so wonderful here but because conditions are dire in their home countries.

My heart said I wanted nothing more to do with that circus.

Despite all that, I really wanted to be persuaded to vote Remain.

But I did not do so because of Call Me Dave's pathetic negotiation with the EU, their attitude to him and the clear concerns of many of our people, his decision to use public resources to campaign for one side (my money and yours Jack - the Leave funds may have been declared illegal but they were freely given, no-one asked me if they could use my money to campaign for one side or the other) and the toxic nature of the Remain campaign. That campaign utterly failed to promote the benefits of staying, but concentrated entirely on the problems of leaving - on most of which proved to be completely wrong or overstated. The biggest sticking point seems to be the Irish border. I don't remember that being raised in the campaign.

It was the dreadful, misconceived Remain campaign that finally convinced me to vote Leave, not anything the Leave campaign said.


Yes I am twitchy about the way negotiations are going - or at least the public reports of them. But that doesn't alter my belief that I voted the right way. In fact every utterance from the EU (as opposed to the member countries) further cements that belief. It is clear they have learned nothing form the clear demonstration of anti EU feeling here, and elsewhere too. This entire negotiation is about crushing the latter by defying the former.

[Jack Staff]

"...the Leave funds may have been declared illegal but they were freely given..."

Don't you think we should know who freely gave that money?

[Mervyn and Trish]

I know it wasn't me Jack. Whereas I did contribute without my permission to the Remain campaign.

But you missed, deliberately I imagine, my point. And I'm not repeating nor further explaining it.

[Jack Staff]

I know it wasn't me Jack. Whereas I did contribute without my permission to the Remain campaign.

But you missed, deliberately I imagine, my point. And I'm not repeating nor further explaining it.

I thought you made a number of points, I was still mulling them over. Hey ho. Never mind then.

[towny44]

Merv, I agree with everything you said in your excellent post #1066, even its number was somehow symbolic, I trust you won't mind me copying it to my Canadian BIL, who cannot understand why I voted leave

[Manoverboard]

Exactly Merv, yours are the same reasons that I voted to leave

… and absolutely nothing Jack has posted convinces me that my choice was in any way incorrect.

[barney]

According to the Telegraph old Vince is in the process of setting up an Anti Brexit Party. So Jack now has somewhere to call home. Let's see how popular it is.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I've decided to vote leave on this thread as well as the EU.

It seems a number of us agree, leaving Jack pretty lonely on the other side.

No-one is going to change their mind here.

Or in the country

We are leaving the EU. The End!

I'm going back to the fun and cruising threads.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Merv, I agree with everything you said in your excellent post #1066, even its number was somehow symbolic, I trust you won't mind me copying it to my Canadian BIL, who cannot understand why I voted leave

[Quizzical Bob]

Apart from the cash they get and somewhere to export their goods do we honestly believe they are really bothered about the UK? Judging by the attitude of their negotiating team I don't think so.
I saw this which, whilst it amused me I also felt a raw sense of irony....................

22554998_1426838497414387_6006923112118215512_n.jpg

Some people will believe anything.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35962999