Brexit

[Onelife]

You are very good in picking up any negative news Jack. Why do you never publish the positive news?

I never see any. Perhaps you could provide some positives of Brexit?

A year or so back economists were saying leaving the EU would be 'catastrophic'...now they are using words such as 'gloomy'...


Thats gota be good new!

[Gill W]

I post on the Brexit Topic from time to time and NOTHING is, nor ever has been, at the personal level … nor can it possibly be as none of us ( to my knowledge ) had or has any influence in any regard of the process … bar our initial individual vote perhaps.

As far as I can tell all other posters think exactly the same way so … Gill … why do you think otherwise ?

You've in part answered your question - as far as you can tell all other posters think the same. Well, most of you do - you are nearly all Leavers, and are quite happy to see comments about scheming Remainers and Saboteurs. Whereas, if you are a Remainer, that sort of language can be construed as inflammatory or provocative. I'm being really mindful about my language on here, as I don't want to cause offence, and I'm suspect you wouldn't be quite so sanguine if I started dropping certain descriptive words relating to Brexiters. I would never do that on a personal basis, but feel it wouldn't even be appropriate on this forum to even mention these descriptions to make a point or illustration.

I will accept that your comments weren't personal - but if I see posts that I think are potentially inflammatory I will call them out. Can't say fairer than that

[Gill W]

Gill...the remainers didn't just talk they took to the streets giving fuel to the undemocratic remainer MPs gripes!....whilst all this has been going on our 'family' cough, splutter have been lapping it and taken full advantage in thinking they can screw us even harder.

“An agreement was reached at Chequers. It lasted about 3 days before Brexiters started resigning. Perhaps it’s the actions of Brexiters in the Government that are hindering the process?”

I would agree Gil, in that some MPs (Brexiters) are more principled than others but our exit from the shackles of the EU was never going to be made easy (the would be EU superstate would crumle in months if we got all that we wanted) so some compromises are inevitable...the question is who will crack first?

Regards

Keith

There's protests all the time, nearly every weekend some group or other takes to the streets to protest about something or other.

We have the right in a democracy to speak out and protest. If you passionately believe in something, shouldn't you give voice to it, instead of sit there meekly as you believe your country is making one of the biggest mistakes in history?

The Leave campaign made out that leaving the EU was going to be easy. When you think about it, untying 40 years of shared legislation was never going to be straight forward, and I still remain surprised that so many believed the Leave campaign on this point.

In answer to your question - I can't see the EU compromising.

[Gill W]

I'm buying a horse just in case.
We can always eat it when things get as bad as Jack says

On a serious note, I am surprised that the travel companies are selling fly holidays into EU countries with no absolute guarantee of being able to fulfill their obligation.
that's a bit risky in my opinion.

Like everyone else they don't have a crystal ball. If necessary, they'd just have to give refunds

You are very good in picking up any negative news Jack. Why do you never publish the positive news? Or is this symptomatic of the die-hard Remainers prophesy of doom and gloom?

What good news? Please post some. (it doesn't count if its anything from the Mail or Express)

[david63]

I can't see the EU compromising.

They can, and they will - they have no option.

I have said this before that the "negotiations" are all about one thing - money. When we leave the EU will have a big black hole to fill and there are only two ways to fill it, those who pay in will have to pay in more or those that take out will have to take out less (actually there is a third option which is a bit of both and the most likely outcome). So if there is no trade deal with the UK/EU it will be loose, loose for the EU whereas it will be win, win for us - or at worst we will be no worse off.

The whole of the Brexit negotiations are just a pantomime being acted out so that nobody looses face and the "deal" (which in my opinion has already been agreed) will be struck at the eleventh hour.

[Jack Staff]

I can't see the EU compromising.

They can, and they will - they have no option.

I have said this before that the "negotiations" are all about one thing - money. When we leave the EU will have a big black hole to fill and there are only two ways to fill it, those who pay in will have to pay in more or those that take out will have to take out less (actually there is a third option which is a bit of both and the most likely outcome). So if there is no trade deal with the UK/EU it will be loose, loose for the EU whereas it will be win, win for us - or at worst we will be no worse off.

The whole of the Brexit negotiations are just a pantomime being acted out so that nobody looses face and the "deal" (which in my opinion has already been agreed) will be struck at the eleventh hour.

The EU is bound by rules that we (in part) wrote. Good British rules designed not to be bent and abused by some third party foreign country trying take advantage of the EU.
It is unfortunate that it is now us who are trying to do exactly that.

[Onelife]

I'm buying a horse just in case.
We can always eat it when things get as bad as Jack says

On a serious note, I am surprised that the travel companies are selling fly holidays into EU countries with no absolute guarantee of being able to fulfill their obligation.
that's a bit risky in my opinion.

Like everyone else they don't have a crystal ball. If necessary, they'd just have to give refunds

You are very good in picking up any negative news Jack. Why do you never publish the positive news? Or is this symptomatic of the die-hard Remainers prophesy of doom and gloom?

What good news? Please post some. (it doesn't count if its anything from the Mail or Express)

News Opinion Lifestyle Culture Sport Search Comment There is plenty of good Brexit news, we’re just ignoring it Brexit has not been as gloomy as some people predicted (Photo: Getty) Kathy Gyngell 1 yearThursday July 27th 2017 The i newsletter News for open-minded people. It is difficult to believe something is good or going well when everyone around you tells you it’s not; when you are confronted with an unmitigated diet of negative stories whenever you turn on the TV or open a newspaper. I am talking about Brexit. From the current negotiations, doomed of course (all the cards are in the EU hands you see) to any post-Brexit Britain scenario – business, trade, travel or the general economy – the message is the same. It’s all a disaster. In fact, the apocalypse is imminent. Brexit now threatens even our very safety. One snowflake civil servant, terrified of having his “safe” space violated, reports how “it is proving worse than anyone guessed”. ADVERTISING Is it though? Not if you look behind and beyond the headlines. Against this relentlessly pessimistic picture of gloom, doom and uncertainty; of plunging economic prospects (untrue); of collapsing of consumer confidence (untrue); of a drying up of investment (untrue); of job freezes (untrue); of skills shortages because of the ending of free movement (untrue); of the inevitable introduction of tariffs; and of impossible renegotiation (untrue), positive news stories have been, and are consistently, under-reported. Brexit reporting ignores good news When Brexit good news does crack the surface it is routinely skewed too. “Despite Brexit” reporting is an editorial technique that particular newspapers excel at. Should the UK’s economy prove “resilient”, it is despite, never because of, Brexit. If ever there was a case of cognitive dissonance it’s this method of rationalising every failed gloomy prediction. Yet there was good news from the start. Within weeks Britain experienced an economic boom; the much-needed depreciation of the pound had an immediate impact on exports and set off a tourism bonanza. Then no less than 27 countries with a combined GDP of more than £40 trillion – over two-thirds of the global economy – were up for taking advantage of Brexit and striking new trade deals with the UK dwarfing the benefits of the EU’s £12 trillion single market. Nor did British or international companies succumb to the nervous breakdowns expected. Au contraire. The US tech giant Amazon doubled down on its commitment to the UK, creating hundreds more highly skilled tech jobs. SoftBank committed to substantial new investment; so too did Google with its development plans for huge new London headquarters. No such gloom and doom “We didn’t hear it because good news stories like this are not just not widely reported – they are often not reported at all.” As for the gloom and doom-mongers who thought the City couldn’t survive without the European Investment Bank, there is no shortage of alternative cash for start-ups. In fact, the rigid approach to venture capital typified by the EIF hindered not helped tech investing. The Channel Tunnel operator is far from the only company to be positive about Brexit – its net profit rose 20 per cent to €30m this last year. And this week we have had the most bullish CBI Survey of UK manufacturing virtually ever. The volume of output is the highest since January 1999, and total order books are the highest since October 1988. Did we see that in headlines across the press yesterday? I don’t think so. We didn’t hear it because good news stories like this are not just not widely reported – they are often not reported at all. Only some defy the rule. The German car manufacturer BMW picked Oxford over Germany and Netherlands to build its new electric Mini. A story hard to ignore. Demands by Germany’s Free Democrat Party for a special “Brexit cabinet” in Berlin, to safeguard the vital interests of their country, hardly got a mention. Yet the growing alarm among industrial and manufacturing companies there at EU attempts to humiliate Britain is good news for us. Meanwhile, trade talks have started – Japan is seeking an early deal, and Liam Fox has been impressing free trade advocates in Washington this week. The White House has made it clear it is in US interest to make the deal succeed and has said it will. In fact the current economic picture in the Britain is “a complete vindication of the Brexit vote” as Britain’s leading investor Jim Mellon – the UK’s answer to the US billionaire Warren Buffett – put it. Economic outlook is good “The German banking system will need a bailout soon” The outlook is good. Models of countries thriving through their freedom to trade internationally are not to be found in the EU but outside it. New Zealand’s success story of reform and liberalisation started when Britain joined the EU in 1973. Now it engages in half of world trade in sheep meat and one-third in dairy products. Its supply chains span the globe. Singapore, the Asian powerhouse, has averaged a GDP Growth Rate of 6.77 per cent since 1975. It is the perfect model of how Britain can survive and thrive outside the European Union’s customs union. Such success is only possible if we break free from suffocatingly negative and anti-democratic EU and the shackles of its failed economic environment. Deep structural flaws remain within the euro and in its big regional imbalances. The 19-country currency zone at the heart of the failing EU project only grew by 0.3 per cent in the last quarter, just half the rate of the UK. The German banking system will need a bailout soon while the Southern European economies are forced to break the EU’s rules to keep their economies afloat. Yet Brussels profligacy continues to know no bounds. That’s before we even mention an EU immigration crisis of catastrophic proportions, which its appears the EU has no will or ability to control, and which is spilling over to us. If we stay, their problems will be our problems. We will be well out of it and that is very good news. It’s time to reject the safe space, terminal fear-of-change disease that drives the negative Brexit news machine.

Kathy Gyngell

[towny44]

I can't see the EU compromising.

They can, and they will - they have no option.

I have said this before that the "negotiations" are all about one thing - money. When we leave the EU will have a big black hole to fill and there are only two ways to fill it, those who pay in will have to pay in more or those that take out will have to take out less (actually there is a third option which is a bit of both and the most likely outcome). So if there is no trade deal with the UK/EU it will be loose, loose for the EU whereas it will be win, win for us - or at worst we will be no worse off.

The whole of the Brexit negotiations are just a pantomime being acted out so that nobody looses face and the "deal" (which in my opinion has already been agreed) will be struck at the eleventh hour.

The EU is bound by rules that we (in part) wrote. Good British rules designed not to be bent and abused by some third party foreign country trying take advantage of the EU.
It is unfortunate that it is now us who are trying to do exactly that.

And I keep telling you Jack that "Rules are for the guidance of wise men, and the observance of fools", sadly the EU lacks the former, but is stuffed full of the latter.

[Gill W]

I'm really sorry, Onelife, I simply can't read that big blob of text.

However, it appears to be more of an opinion piece rather than news - I do wonder whether Kathy Gyngell, editor of Conservative Woman, author of recent Blogpost 'is Bojo getting his mojo back', is entirely objective in her opinions.

I said the Mail and Express didn't count - I've got to rule this one out as well!

[Jack Staff]

And I keep telling you Jack that "Rules are for the guidance of wise men, and the observance of fools", sadly the EU lacks the former, but is stuffed full of the latter.

Boris Johnson
Liam Fox
David Davis
Need I go on?

[Onelife]

Gill...the remainers didn't just talk they took to the streets giving fuel to the undemocratic remainer MPs gripes!....whilst all this has been going on our 'family' cough, splutter have been lapping it and taken full advantage in thinking they can screw us even harder.

“An agreement was reached at Chequers. It lasted about 3 days before Brexiters started resigning. Perhaps it’s the actions of Brexiters in the Government that are hindering the process?”

I would agree Gil, in that some MPs (Brexiters) are more principled than others but our exit from the shackles of the EU was never going to be made easy (the would be EU superstate would crumle in months if we got all that we wanted) so some compromises are inevitable...the question is who will crack first?

Regards

Keith

There's protests all the time, nearly every weekend some group or other takes to the streets to protest about something or other.

We have the right in a democracy to speak out and protest. If you passionately believe in something, shouldn't you give voice to it, instead of sit there meekly as you believe your country is making one of the biggest mistakes in history?

The Leave campaign made out that leaving the EU was going to be easy. When you think about it, untying 40 years of shared legislation was never going to be straight forward, and I still remain surprised that so many believed the Leave campaign on this point.

In answer to your question - I can't see the EU compromising.

Then we should walk away.......Yes it will take time to pull together bilateral trade agreement but it can be done.......not to do so would be catastrophic for all concerned.

[oldbluefox]

You are very good in picking up any negative news Jack. Why do you never publish the positive news?

I never see any. Perhaps you could provide some positives of Brexit?

So in your world all the predictions of Osborne's Project Fear have come to pass. No matter how you try to twist the truth that was a load of baloney. What happened to the emergency budget he prepared?

[Onelife]

I'm really sorry, Onelife, I simply can't read that big blob of text.

However, it appears to be more of an opinion piece rather than news - I do wonder whether Kathy Gyngell, editor of Conservative Woman, author of recent Blogpost 'is Bojo getting his mojo back', is entirely objective in her opinions.

I said the Mail and Express didn't count - I've got to rule this one out as well!

Hi Gill.....little fibber l bet you did read it

[Jack Staff]

You are very good in picking up any negative news Jack. Why do you never publish the positive news?

I never see any. Perhaps you could provide some positives of Brexit?

So in your world all the predictions of Osborne's Project Fear have come to pass. No matter how you try to twist the truth that was a load of baloney. What happened to the emergency budget he prepared?

So Osborne quitting is your best positive of Brexit?

[oldbluefox]

And I keep telling you Jack that "Rules are for the guidance of wise men, and the observance of fools", sadly the EU lacks the former, but is stuffed full of the latter.

Boris Johnson
Liam Fox
David Davis
Need I go on?

Anna Soubry
Lord Mandelson
Ken Clarke
Gina Miller
George Soros
Tony Bliar
We Brits never quit Cameron?

[Jack Staff]

And I keep telling you Jack that "Rules are for the guidance of wise men, and the observance of fools", sadly the EU lacks the former, but is stuffed full of the latter.

Boris Johnson
Liam Fox
David Davis
Need I go on?

Anna Soubry
Lord Mandelson
Ken Clarke
Gina Miller
George Soros
Tony Bliar
We Brits never quit Cameron?

Your point?

[Jack Staff]

Here's some good Brexit news - We won't starve before August 2019!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... rmers-warn?

[oldbluefox]

You are very good in picking up any negative news Jack. Why do you never publish the positive news?

I never see any. Perhaps you could provide some positives of Brexit?

So in your world all the predictions of Osborne's Project Fear have come to pass. No matter how you try to twist the truth that was a load of baloney. What happened to the emergency budget he prepared?

So Osborne quitting is your best positive of Brexit?

Stop wriggling Jack. Did Osborne's Project Fear come to pass: yes or no? What happened to his emergency budget having prophesied our economy would collapse? It did happen or it didn't?
On the question of Brexit positives do you never read the newspapers or only those which present your own cosy EU world, otherwise you would not be asking that question? Personally I looked at the Leave argument and the Remain argument and made my decision accordingly. However it seems easy for you to keep repeating the same mantra which, after a while does become predictable and a tad tiresome.

[oldbluefox]

And I keep telling you Jack that "Rules are for the guidance of wise men, and the observance of fools", sadly the EU lacks the former, but is stuffed full of the latter.

Boris Johnson
Liam Fox
David Davis
Need I go on?

Anna Soubry
Lord Mandelson
Ken Clarke
Gina Miller
George Soros
Tony Bliar
We Brits never quit Cameron?

Your point?

Nice selection there of snake oil salesmen. I wasn't so sure what your point was so I gave you my own.

[Jack Staff]

I never see any. Perhaps you could provide some positives of Brexit?

So in your world all the predictions of Osborne's Project Fear have come to pass. No matter how you try to twist the truth that was a load of baloney. What happened to the emergency budget he prepared?

So Osborne quitting is your best positive of Brexit?

Stop wriggling Jack. Did Osborne's Project Fear come to pass: yes or no? What happened to his emergency budget having prophesied our economy would collapse? It did happen or it didn't?
On the question of Brexit positives do you never read the newspapers or only those which present your own cosy EU world, otherwise you would not be asking that question? Personally I looked at the Leave argument and the Remain argument and made my decision accordingly. However it seems easy for you to keep repeating the same mantra which, after a while does become predictable and a tad tiresome.

Before we do the whataboutery of Osborne, perhaps you could stop wriggling and provide a positive of Brexit?
Remember, I asked first and it would be sensible to clear that up first.

[Jack Staff]

Boris Johnson
Liam Fox
David Davis
Need I go on?

Anna Soubry
Lord Mandelson
Ken Clarke
Gina Miller
George Soros
Tony Bliar
We Brits never quit Cameron?

Your point?

Nice selection there of snake oil salesmen. I wasn't so sure what your point was so I gave you my own.

And I keep telling you Jack that "Rules are for the guidance of wise men, and the observance of fools", sadly the EU lacks the former, but is stuffed full of the latter.

[oldbluefox]

I think John's quote was more relevant.

[Golden Princess]

I wish to comment on this part of post by Mamoverboard @ 9.14 today. "
"I post on the Brexit Topic from time to time and NOTHING is, nor ever has been, at the personal level … "

There was an extremely vile, vulgar and offensive post on this thread directed at one of the posters personally.
(It was removed)

I referred to it on the 'Boring Thread' post (did not mention what was actually written) and my post was removed!!!
I did write to express my disquiet (to the moderator and 2 others). I received no apology, nor even a reply, or acknowledgement.

Either you belong to the clique , or you are ridiculed.

I fully expect this post to be removed in one ...... two.......... three..................

[Gill W]

I'm really sorry, Onelife, I simply can't read that big blob of text.

However, it appears to be more of an opinion piece rather than news - I do wonder whether Kathy Gyngell, editor of Conservative Woman, author of recent Blogpost 'is Bojo getting his mojo back', is entirely objective in her opinions.

I said the Mail and Express didn't count - I've got to rule this one out as well!

Hi Gill.....little fibber l bet you did read it

lol, skim read it before I went cross eyed!

[barney]

It may all depend on your outlook in life to decide how you feel about Brexit. Some are totally risk adverse. Others are happy to take a chance. Some are always cup half full. Some are cup half empty. Then you get the few who's cup is totally empty. The absolute truth is that no one really knows how it will all turn out. It could be an absolute disaster OR it could be the best thing we've ever done and the country will flourish. We'll soon find out.