Brexit

[Mervyn and Trish]

If you wish to persist in your interpretation of the result Jack I would point out that under your rules a majority of the electorate did not vote to be in the EEC in 1975.

[Ranchi]

We didn’t vote in the election and it wasn’t due to apathy. We had a seven day cruise booked on the west coast. Include a day to travel there and a day back, so we were away from home for 9 days. We applied for a postal vote and assumed that all would run smoothly. About a week before we were due to travel we still had not heard anything. We went in to our local council offices and were told that postal voting forms would be delivered on or after 16th of the month. Great. We left home on the 15th and returned on the 24th. While I realise that our two votes would not have made a difference in our area I was appalled at a system which is so inflexible. We were offered the opportunity of a proxy vote but it was not viable.

[towny44]

Nice ploy - change the subject. Don't let facts get in the way of fiction.

err, I have no idea what you are on about now.

The majority disagree with you?

The 'majority' can do what they like, it doesn't change the fact that only 26.7% of the population or 17,410,742 people voted to leave, and that is not a majority of the people.

That is living in the past, 2016. I know you wish to take us back further.

By your interpretation Jack every election and government we have ever had should be invalid, since none of them ever exceeded 50% of the population in their favour.

[Jack Staff]

No wonder you guys fell for all the Brexit lies if you can not (or simply won't) accept that 17 million people are not the 'the people'.

How many more times do you need this explaining, I'm not talking about your precious vote, except that it indicated that Brexiters were only ever one in four people.

The fact is we had a referendum. Everybody who was eligible to vote had the opportunity to vote for their preferred option. The Leave vote won, the Remain vote lost and no matter which way you try to manipulate the figures, no matter what excuses you come up with the plain fact is you lost the vote, a fact many Remainers struggle to accept. You lost because fewer voters voted to remain than to leave. And that Jack is the plain truth.

I have no problem with that.

You do the reputation of Brexiters no good at all.

[oldbluefox]

No wonder you guys fell for all the Brexit lies if you can not (or simply won't) accept that 17 million people are not the 'the people'.

How many more times do you need this explaining, I'm not talking about your precious vote, except that it indicated that Brexiters were only ever one in four people.

The outcome happened because people did not believe the lies put out by Project Fear. How many more times do we have to tell you, no matter how you massage the figures you lost? Stop making excuses.

The fact is we had a referendum. Everybody who was eligible to vote had the opportunity to vote for their preferred option. The Leave vote won, the Remain vote lost and no matter which way you try to manipulate the figures, no matter what excuses you come up with the plain fact is you lost the vote, a fact many Remainers struggle to accept. You lost because fewer voters voted to remain than to leave. And that Jack is the plain truth.

I have no problem with that.

You do the reputation of Brexiters no good at all.

"I have no problem with that"
"You do the reputation of Brexiters no good at all"
Make your mind up Jack. To be honest I don't care less what Remainers think of me. I am looking forward to the day when we are free from the shackles of this carbuncle of an institution.

[Jack Staff]

So you still can't get it. Never mind, let's leave that for now.

[david63]

The majority of the "population" did not vote for Brexit - fact.

The majority who voted in the referendum did vote for Brexit - fact.

The argument should be whether the voting system is fair. Under the current system there would have only needed one person to vote (one way or the other) and everyone else be apathetic and not vote and that one vote would have carried the decision.

Arguably the result of a referendum should be 50% + 1 of the electorate - but it's not and we are stuck with the system that we have.

Don't blame the people for the system.

[towny44]

So you still can't get it. Never mind, let's leave that for now.

Not quite sure what we don't get Jack, if you want us to agree that only 17.4 m voted to leave out of a voting population of 44m, then I believe we have alreay accepted this. What you don't seem to be willing to accept is that under the rules of the referendum this resulted in a win for the leave voters, regardless that this was less than 50% of those entitled to vote, and even less against the total population.

[Jack Staff]

The majority of the "population" did not vote for Brexit - fact.

The majority who voted in the referendum did vote for Brexit - fact.

The argument should be whether the voting system is fair. Under the current system there would have only needed one person to vote (one way or the other) and everyone else be apathetic and not vote and that one vote would have carried the decision.

Arguably the result of a referendum should be 50% + 1 of the electorate - but it's not and we are stuck with the system that we have.

Don't blame the people for the system.

David, Thank you for explaining better than my attempts.

[Manoverboard]

… It was the comment by a mod ""I post on the Brexit Topic from time to time and NOTHING is, nor ever has been, at the personal level … "

One of mine of course …

As a Member I posted this in response to ' Gill ' and the context was to advise that Members who are Remainers are NOT attacked at the personal level … as indeed they are not.

Your reference to a n other posting … which will not be re-quoted.

The ' Team ' will remove anything and everything that breaks the rules but as often is the case it is necessary to remove related and innocent postings to prevent the matter getting out of hand.

For me the incident is closed, how it was dealt with is not for public consumption.

Regards MobyMod

[Gill W]

Just in case you've missed this.

Everything I've seen over the last few days suggests public opinion is turning on Brexit. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -to-remain

If Remain was Project Fear, then Leave was Project Fantasy.

Truth is none of us really knew what would happen. Two years down the line the reality is becoming more apparant. When the actual deal (or no deal) is known perhaps we do need anther vote, as there'll be something tangible to vote for or against.

[Ray Scully]

Yes Gill let us have another vote but this time we can introduce project REALITY to fear and fantasy.

Ray

[oldbluefox]

Thank goodness you can always rely on The Guardian to give you a straw to clutch at.

[Jack Staff]

Thank goodness you can always rely on The Guardian to give you a straw to clutch at.

Thank goodness you can always blame the messenger to give you a straw to clutch at.

[Ray Scully]

Project FEAR or a touch of REALITY? take your pick

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -m7cbfb257

[oldbluefox]

Predictions so far have been wrong so where's the difference?

[Onelife]

Project FEAR or a touch of REALITY? take your pick

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -m7cbfb257

"Senior executives from some of the big four supermarkets made the alarming prediction in briefings to the Treasury on the impact on food prices of a no-deal Brexit.

The biggest tariffs on imports from the EU could include cheese, up by 44%, beef, up by 40%, and chicken, up 22%"

Sunday Times

Hopefully this will mean less EU subsidies and more home produced products .....something our farmers have been paid not to do for years

[Ray Scully]

Project FEAR or a touch of REALITY? take your pick

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -m7cbfb257

"Senior executives from some of the big four supermarkets made the alarming prediction in briefings to the Treasury on the impact on food prices of a no-deal Brexit.

The biggest tariffs on imports from the EU could include cheese, up by 44%, beef, up by 40%, and chicken, up 22%"

Sunday Times

Hopefully this will mean less EU subsidies and more home produced products .....something our farmers have been paid not to do for years

Have they the capacity to pick up the shortfall? I can see the Mail headline SMELLY COWS at the bottom of my garden

[david63]

The interesting thing in the Guardian report is the "swing" in Labour voters.

I have thought for a long time now that the "Labour" vote influenced the Referendum in that many traditional Labour voters saw Remain as a Conservative policy and being Labour had to vote the opposite way. This was not helped by Jeremy Corben appearing to be somewhat apathetic about the whole thing. Had JC gone round the country standing shoulder to shoulder with DC I think that the outcome would have been significantly different.

[Jack Staff]

Have they the capacity to pick up the shortfall? I can see the Mail headline SMELLY COWS at the bottom of my garden

"British food supplies would be exhausted by Aug. 7, 2019, if the country ate only its own products from Jan. 1, the National Farmers’ Union said Tuesday, highlighting the U.K.’s reliance on imports from the European Union and other regions. The group called for the government to prioritize food security in Brexit negotiations."

Here's some good Brexit news - We won't starve before August 2019!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... rmers-warn?

[Onelife]

Project FEAR or a touch of REALITY? take your pick

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -m7cbfb257

"Senior executives from some of the big four supermarkets made the alarming prediction in briefings to the Treasury on the impact on food prices of a no-deal Brexit.

The biggest tariffs on imports from the EU could include cheese, up by 44%, beef, up by 40%, and chicken, up 22%"

Sunday Times


Hopefully this will mean less EU subsidies and more home produced products .....something our farmers have been paid not to do for years

Have they the capacity to pick up the shortfall? I can see the Mail headline SMELLY COWS at the bottom of my garden

There was a time when we used to produce more than 70% of home produced products in this country the rest being more difficult to grow thus imported.

With new farming technology we have the means to produce far more fruit cultivated crops such as oranges and lemons, bananas etc, but perhaps not in the numbers required.

[Jack Staff]

There was a time when we used to produce more than 70% of home produced products in this country the rest being more difficult to grow thus imported.

With new farming technology we have the means to produce far more fruit cultivated crops such as oranges and lemons, bananas etc, but perhaps not in the numbers required.

Is this the same new technology that is going to solve the Irish border issue?

[Onelife]

There was a time when we used to produce more than 70% of home produced products in this country the rest being more difficult to grow thus imported.

With new farming technology we have the means to produce far more fruit cultivated crops such as oranges and lemons, bananas etc, but perhaps not in the numbers required.

Is this the same new technology that is going to solve the Irish border issue?

Hi Jack,


The way l see things (bearing in mind that I'm a little short sighted) is that the whole issue of the boarder between n and s is in fact being blown out of all proportion.....There never will be a hard boarder, the reason being....who the hell is going to enforce it? Who cares if the EU try to impose regulations? at the end of the day we don't  want a hard boarder neither dose North n South Ireland...who is going to make them do it?


Sooner or latter the EU will realise that they can't use bully tactics over things they have no control over...We want to control our own destiny, with them or without them, and we will.

[Gill W]

Thank goodness you can always rely on The Guardian to give you a straw to clutch at.

I see the new editor of the Daily Mail is going to change the paper’s stance to ‘let’s have the least damaging possible’ Brexit.

You know somethings up when even the Mail admits that ANY Brexit will be damaging!

[Gill W]

There was a time when we used to produce more than 70% of home produced products in this country the rest being more difficult to grow thus imported.

With new farming technology we have the means to produce far more fruit cultivated crops such as oranges and lemons, bananas etc, but perhaps not in the numbers required.

Is this the same new technology that is going to solve the Irish border issue?

Hi Jack,


The way l see things (bearing in mind that I'm a little short sighted) is that the whole issue of the boarder between n and s is in fact being blown out of all proportion.....There never will be a hard boarder, the reason being....who the hell is going to enforce it? Who cares if the EU try to impose regulations? at the end of the day we don't  want a hard boarder neither dose North n South Ireland...who is going to make them do it?


Sooner or latter the EU will realise that they can't use bully tactics over things they have no control over...We want to control our own destiny, with them or without them, and we will.

Ireland are part of the EU. Any agreement has to be approved by the 27 EU countries. Ireland can’t just go it alone and make an agreement with us. You are basically calling for no deal and all the problems that people are worried that’ll cause.