Brexit

[Jack Staff]

You do make me laugh Barney.

[barney]

Thanks

I aim to please

Things that don't appear in the British press

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit- ... l-reached/

I bet you it's a total fudge and stitch up.

[Manoverboard]

You do make me laugh Barney.

Barney makes me laugh too

You, on the other hands are a miserable old sod who constantly goes on like a prophet of doom.

ps well done Barney

The people have spoken so get over it y'all

Gill … those who ' voted ' to Remain are not at all to blame in my book, it's the ostrich style Politicos who are using the Remain loss to foster their own greed, benefit and interest.

[Ray Scully]

A remainer friend recently suggested that should we leave without a deal and there is calculable harm to peoples jobs income etc, "it will be the fault of the Remainers for not supporting Leave". Please is there anyone out there who can help me understand this?

[towny44]

A remainer friend recently suggested that should we leave without a deal and there is calculable harm to peoples jobs income etc, "it will be the fault of the Remainers for not supporting Leave". Please is there anyone out there who can help me understand this?

Its possible he may have meant remainers should have accepted the result and put their backing behind the leave cause to ensure the Govt. had the full backing of the electorate behind them, and were able to obtain the best terms possible, and were not distracted by calls for a second vote.

[barney]

A remainer friend recently suggested that should we leave without a deal and there is calculable harm to peoples jobs income etc, "it will be the fault of the Remainers for not supporting Leave". Please is there anyone out there who can help me understand this?

That is totally inexplicable Ray.
It make no sense at all.

While I don't think that we should leave without a deal, it will be very difficult to achieve one that is mutually agreeable.
These current talks are not even about any deal.
They are about the terms in which we depart.
The EU want to totally dictate those terms and make leaving as unattractive as possible.
That is exactly why May has mishandled the whole thing and jumped to the EU's timetable and conditions.

In my humble opinion, the terms of departure should have been carried out in conjunction with the actual trade agreement.
The two are inextricably linked.
That is, if a trade deal is done, the Irish border issue becomes irrelevant.
The UK should have played hardball in the beginning and insisted on this as part of the negotiation.
Had the EU not agreed, then we'd all know where we stand at the beginning.
The EU insisted on separating the two issues and the UK said OK.
Unbelievable.

May and her advisors have handled it about as badly as they could.

[Gill W]

A remainer friend recently suggested that should we leave without a deal and there is calculable harm to peoples jobs income etc, "it will be the fault of the Remainers for not supporting Leave". Please is there anyone out there who can help me understand this?

Its possible he may have meant remainers should have accepted the result and put their backing behind the leave cause to ensure the Govt. had the full backing of the electorate behind them, and were able to obtain the best terms possible, and were not distracted by calls for a second vote.

How would that have changed anything?

We’d have still been in the position that May recklessly invoked Article 50, the same unless negotiating team and the same issues with the Irish border (which were raised on the day after the Brexit referendum by those clear sighted enough to have coherent thought).

Therefore I haven’t got a clue what Ray’s friend is on about.

To no one’s surprise, talks last night went nowhere.

As Danny Dyer said, Brexit is a riddle that no one can solve.

But, hey, for reasons that now completely escape me we must press on regardless.

Note - just seen Barney’s comments. I agree with him ( in part)

[Ray Scully]

A remainer friend recently suggested that should we leave without a deal and there is calculable harm to peoples jobs income etc, "it will be the fault of the Remainers for not supporting Leave". Please is there anyone out there who can help me understand this?

That is totally inexplicable Ray.
It make no sense at all.

While I don't think that we should leave without a deal, it will be very difficult to achieve one that is mutually agreeable.
These current talks are not even about any deal.
They are about the terms in which we depart.
The EU want to totally dictate those terms and make leaving as unattractive as possible.
That is exactly why May has mishandled the whole thing and jumped to the EU's timetable and conditions.

In my humble opinion, the terms of departure should have been carried out in conjunction with the actual trade agreement.
The two are inextricably linked.
That is, if a trade deal is done, the Irish border issue becomes irrelevant.
The UK should have played hardball in the beginning and insisted on this as part of the negotiation.
Had the EU not agreed, then we'd all know where we stand at the beginning.
The EU insisted on separating the two issues and the UK said OK.
Unbelievable.

May and her advisors have handled it about as badly as they could.

Barney
I fear that it is no longer, or perhaps never has been about coming to a mutually advantages agreement. For both sets of negotiators and for many who voted in the referendum, it's about their side winning or losing.

[Gill W]

Theresa May to make a statement to Parliament this afternoon, about Brexit negotiations, at 3.30pm.

[Onelife]

Hi Gill.....l have penciled this time slot into my household duties...it should be interesting.

[barney]

How very underwhelming

Nothing has changed but she thought she should let us all know that nothing has changed.

Mind you, it's nice to see that she in concerned for Northern Ireland when the EU clearly don't give a flying fig about Ireland.

[Gill W]

Groundhog Day all over again!

[towny44]

Groundhog Day all over again!

If Brexit the movie is half as good as that, it will be a roaring success.

[Onelife]

Well she didn't tell us anything that furthered our Brexit negotiations but what she did reveal was how Mogg, Smith and Johnson reacted when Theresa May responded to their questions....l can tell you now that if Theresa May can bring home her chequers deal (intact) then you'll see how quickly they fall into line.....why? Because they are all mouth and no trousers, Why? Because a Canadian style deal comes with all kinds of limitations, and a no deal comes with me having to fill my shelves even higher than what they already are now.

P.s l'm still backing Theresa.......100%

[Gill W]

Are you the new food supplies minister, Keith?

[Onelife]

Are you the new food supplies minister, Keith?

Not likely Gill

If my faith in Theresa May doesn't come to fruition then David Rutley will become a clone of Theresa May.....Dammed if he dose dammed if he doesn't....should he not come up with the goods.

I'm just sorry l ever mentioned talking up my ample food supplies as l'm now thinking l might need to invest in barbed wire fencing to protect my hord of M&S goodies

Happy Christmas and hopfully not a hungry new year to all?

Regards

Keith

[barney]

Could this get anymore humiliating for the Prime Minister ?
She is like the little puppy whose master keeps pushing it away but it keeps coming back for more.

Enough is enough Mrs May.
The EU are openly taking the pee out of you.

Another year and another 17 billion quid.
Funny that they can find that but cannot rustle up 2 billion to properly finance Universal Credit.

it really is time for her to go !

[Stephen]

Agree barney.

[Onelife]

Hi Barney,

I think it fair to say that l and indeed several others have put forward several different views as to how we think the brexit negotiations should have progressed . What l am certain of us is that none of us could have known how complex theses negotiations would turn out to be when we embarked on Brexit. I myself have suggested going down the Canadian style option....with its wishful thinking +++ add ons whatever they are? 

I have also go along with the 'sod them and walk WTO option'  but the more l have read about these two options the more l think Theresa May's 'cabinet' decision  is the right one for this country. In many ways l see an extended transition period as an unfortunate but sensible concession should it allow us to sort out the Irish boarder issue, it also allows more  time for what are going to be very complex transitional processes.....surely the ultimate  goal is to leave the EU even if it takes a little longer than first envisaged.


Barney....l'm not sure how all this is going to pan out but if Theresa May 'can' hold her cabinet together after this suggested concession then one must think that this option is better than going down a route of equally complex canadian/WTO options once outside of the EU.


Regards

[towny44]

Hi Barney,



Barney....l'm not sure how all this is going to pan out but if Theresa May 'can' hold her cabinet together after this suggested concession then one must think that this option is better than going down a route of equally complex canadian/WTO options once outside of the EU.


Regards

Maybe, she should tell the EU that if they don't stop p**s f****ng around she will resign and support Boris for leader and PM, if they think the UK don't know what their negotiating position is under May, whatever will they think with Boris at the helm?

[Gill W]

Hi Barney,

I think it fair to say that l and indeed several others have put forward several different views as to how we think the brexit negotiations should have progressed . What l am certain of us is that none of us could have known how complex theses negotiations would turn out to be when we embarked on Brexit. I myself have suggested going down the Canadian style option....with its wishful thinking +++ add ons whatever they are? 

I have also go along with the 'sod them and walk WTO option'  but the more l have read about these two options the more l think Theresa May's 'cabinet' decision  is the right one for this country. In many ways l see an extended transition period as an unfortunate but sensible concession should it allow us to sort out the Irish boarder issue, it also allows more  time for what are going to be very complex transitional processes.....surely the ultimate  goal is to leave the EU even if it takes a little longer than first envisaged.


Barney....l'm not sure how all this is going to pan out but if Theresa May 'can' hold her cabinet together after this suggested concession then one must think that this option is better than going down a route of equally complex canadian/WTO options once outside of the EU.


Regards

We did know how complex it'd be - or those of us who listened to knowledgeable people more than two years ago knew - but it was all dismissed as Project Fear.

As said on this board a couple of days ago, nothing has changed, and that is the view of the EU too, as there's to be no special summit in November. So, we drift along until December like a rudderless ship, where no doubt the whole charade will be enacted again. If by some miracle, agreement is reached, it'll be Christmas, so all the MP's will go on holiday, and it won't go before parliament until the new year. Then it's got to get through Parliament, which is not certain. Either way, come mid January, there'll most likely be nothing in place, with just a few weeks to go until Brexit.

Regarding extending the transition period, to have transition, we have to have a deal. (See above).

If the government had done their job effectively and had not messed around for two years, we wouldn't need to extend the transition period anyway. IF (big if), there's a deal, and we extend to transition to 2022, it'll mean we'll be subject to EU rules and regulations but with no say in making the rules and regulations. So much for the 'taking back control' mantra of the Brexiters!

I agree that Teresa May should go - but the problem is I can't see any individual competent enough to a) negotiate Brexit and b) to sort out the mess that we are in.

The only way that I can see out of this hole is to stop Brexit altogether. I know Brexiterrs won't agree as, for some reason or other, we must proceed with this nightmare no matter how damaging it is, but, for me, it's the only sane course of action left.

[barney]

"If the government had done their job effectively and had not messed around for two years, we wouldn't need to extend the transition period anyway."

100% correct Gill.

Our government should have played hardball from the very beginning and not let the EU side dictate evrything.

The stance should have been that we leave March 2019 with or without agreement.
No withdraw agreement means no bribe money.
No trade agreement means standard WTO terms.
Then and only then, after we had left should we be talking about a trade deal.

The very first question should be, does the EU want afree trade agreement with one of the most powerful and wealthy countries in the world.

I was furious last night when I was watching the Prime minister of Luxembourg saying this, the Prime minister of Lativa saying that.
The Prime minister of Lithuania saying what we should do.
Why the hell are we even trying to negotiate with these financial minnows.
This situation highlights everything that is wrong with the EU.
The tail wagging the dog.
Faceless European nobodies leading a politcal union that we never voted for in the first place.
Everytime Juncker opens his mouth it reminds me as to why I voted leave.
The GDP of the UK is equal to the GDP of 19 EU countries combined.
And she is allowing herself to be treated like that.

Walk away Teresa.
Grow a pair and stand up for the majority.

[towny44]

Hi Barney,

I think it fair to say that l and indeed several others have put forward several different views as to how we think the brexit negotiations should have progressed . What l am certain of us is that none of us could have known how complex theses negotiations would turn out to be when we embarked on Brexit. I myself have suggested going down the Canadian style option....with its wishful thinking +++ add ons whatever they are? 

I have also go along with the 'sod them and walk WTO option'  but the more l have read about these two options the more l think Theresa May's 'cabinet' decision  is the right one for this country. In many ways l see an extended transition period as an unfortunate but sensible concession should it allow us to sort out the Irish boarder issue, it also allows more  time for what are going to be very complex transitional processes.....surely the ultimate  goal is to leave the EU even if it takes a little longer than first envisaged.


Barney....l'm not sure how all this is going to pan out but if Theresa May 'can' hold her cabinet together after this suggested concession then one must think that this option is better than going down a route of equally complex canadian/WTO options once outside of the EU.


Regards

We did know how complex it'd be - or those of us who listened to knowledgeable people more than two years ago knew - but it was all dismissed as Project Fear.

As said on this board a couple of days ago, nothing has changed, and that is the view of the EU too, as there's to be no special summit in November. So, we drift along until December like a rudderless ship, where no doubt the whole charade will be enacted again. If by some miracle, agreement is reached, it'll be Christmas, so all the MP's will go on holiday, and it won't go before parliament until the new year. Then it's got to get through Parliament, which is not certain. Either way, come mid January, there'll most likely be nothing in place, with just a few weeks to go until Brexit.

Regarding extending the transition period, to have transition, we have to have a deal. (See above).

If the government had done their job effectively and had not messed around for two years, we wouldn't need to extend the transition period anyway. IF (big if), there's a deal, and we extend to transition to 2022, it'll mean we'll be subject to EU rules and regulations but with no say in making the rules and regulations. So much for the 'taking back control' mantra of the Brexiters!

I agree that Teresa May should go - but the problem is I can't see any individual competent enough to a) negotiate Brexit and b) to sort out the mess that we are in.

The only way that I can see out of this hole is to stop Brexit altogether. I know Brexiterrs won't agree as, for some reason or other, we must proceed with this nightmare no matter how damaging it is, but, for me, it's the only sane course of action left.

I am beginning to think that you are possibly correct Gill, but maybe not for the same reasons. It has become increasingly apparent that the EU has no intention of letting us leave on any terms that would be acceptable to any UK government. As a result staying in but with the declared intention of campaigning vigorously to return the EU to a free trade association and dismantle the federal bureaucracy, by using any means within our power.

[Gill W]

I agree that reform in the EU is needed, and up until now we were were one of the leading nations within the EU. We are walking away from the best trade deals, it’s like cutting off our nose to spite our faces. Staying and enjoying the trade deals that have been negotiated over 40 yrs and working for change within, makes sense to me.

However, I think we have gone beyond the point of sanity, and can’t see this being stopped, no matter how ridiculous the current situation is and how much misery will be caused.

[barney]

Unfortunately the EU is not for reforming or changing in any way Gill.
Whether we are members or not, their policy is enlargement and more centralisation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11283616

This was never on the referendum paper and many who voted to remain thought that they were voting for the status quo.

in my opinion, it will eventually destroy itself anyway.
It cannot keep taking in poor countries and expecting the wealthier ones to subsidise it all.

It's like taking a roast dinner round to your neighbour while your own family live on bread and dripping.

The mistake that you and others are making is that you think that it's all about trade.
It is not.
It is a political alliance with Brussels at the centre of it all.
They want to harmonise everything to make it one homogenous, single entity.
Be it taxation, military or anything else.
Brussels will rule and you will do as you are told.
Just take a look at the Italy budget situation and you will see what I mean.

The dream is a United States of Europe.

You and others may be quite happy with that.
I and many others are not.

Love Europe
Hate the EU.