Brexit

[Ray Scully]

Regards

Maybe, she should tell the EU that if they don't stop p**s f****ng around she will resign and support Boris for leader and PM, if they think the UK don't know what their negotiating position is under May, whatever will they think with Boris at the helm?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvZex3Qf7QQ

[Manoverboard]

Gill, you have seen how less than a dozen people on here can go round 'n' round in circles for ever and a day …. how many circles would we have trod trying to make the changes from within.

No chance of ever achieving anything significant ( Call me Dave proved that ) so the only way to get what WE need is for US to leave the circus that is entrenched within the EU Biro-crats.

[barney]

Unintended consequence

https://www.politico.eu/article/nigel-f ... -election/

That'd serve 'em

[towny44]

Gill, you have seen how less than a dozen people on here can go round 'n' round in circles for ever and a day …. how many circles would we have trod trying to make the changes from within.

No chance of ever achieving anything significant ( Call me Dave proved that ) so the only way to get what WE need is for US to leave the circus that is entrenched within the EU Biro-crats.

Why not Moby, Jack keeps spouting that we still have a veto, well we could use it on everything and bring the bureaucracy to a standstill, not very friendly but then neither are they.

[Stephen]

Unfortunately the current UK management haven't got the balls to put the EU bureaucrats straight, and they know it so are making it as difficult as possible in the hope that anyone else will think twice about applying to come out of Europe. Just my opinion.

I was watching the smug gits last night, all swooning around each other and patting all they're clicky group on the back. Makes me sick. I know what I'd like to do with the lot of them.

[Gill W]

Gill, you have seen how less than a dozen people on here can go round 'n' round in circles for ever and a day …. how many circles would we have trod trying to make the changes from within.

No chance of ever achieving anything significant ( Call me Dave proved that ) so the only way to get what WE need is for US to leave the circus that is entrenched within the EU Biro-crats.

So far, at this late stage, we are no where near getting what YOU (Brexiters) want.

I genuinely don’t know how any benefit to the U.K. is going to be achieved by this charade.

[Gill W]

Unfortunately the current UK management haven't got the balls to put the EU bureaucrats straight, and they know it so are making it as difficult as possible in the hope that anyone else will think twice about applying to come out of Europe. Just my opinion.

I was watching the smug gits last night, all swooning around each other and patting all they're clicky group on the back. Makes me sick. I know what I'd like to do with the lot of them.

That would really help with reaching an agreement!

[Stephen]

Can't make it any worse

[Onelife]

It's easy to play the blame game when most of the cards have already been laid on the table. The Government have had to  play the cards they've  been dealt them, albeit through there own misjudgment in calling a snap election which has significantly compromised the way our Government has gone about Brexit negotiations. 

What has happened since is of our own making.

At the start of Brexit negotiations we had two options open to us...deal or no deal ....within a week or so of the referendum  the remainers gave hope that the democratic vote could/should be overturned . The EU lapped this up... A few months after that we find out that you don't  leave the EU on negotiated terms you leave the EU on their terms....or so they would have us belive.  A few months after this we see a couple of resignations....The EU lapped this up. The following weeks and months after this we had several Brexit options on the table....WTO....Canadian+++....Norwegian. ...Free trade area......The EU absolutely  lapped this up....In fact l wouldn't  be surprised  if Davis, Johnson and Mogg were in line for some kind of EU..."thanks for playing into our hands medal".

Is it any wonder that the EU are playing hard ball when all they see is a country with several influential people pulling Brexit in different directions?

I have reconciled myself to believing the chequers plan is the sensible option for our country and if, and it's becoming an increasingly bigger 'if' we can show a united front the better chance we will have of finally getting out of this prison.


I thought it interesting what Moggy said this morning when asked whether or not Theresa May should be removed...He said 'No' he Di quilify that but my dinner is on the table......

[oldbluefox]

Do you think they would treat Maggie Thatcher as they have treated TM? I think not!! And I also think the negotiations would have got a lot further. It was she, after all, who negotiated the rebate and Bliar (the staunch Remainer who is spouting so much) who gave most of it away!!!
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/dec/17/eu.world
We should have taken a much firmer stance right from the beginning. The EU saw UK as a soft touch and they have taken advantage.

[Onelife]

Hi foxy.....l know all about strong women...squeak! squeak!......Regarding the two laddies in question l personally wouldn't argue with either of them but Maggie would get my vote to give the EU a good spanking any day of the week...mind you she did have a Majority and a cabinet that backed her up.

Must dash, time to wash up....yes' coming love!!

[oldbluefox]

'Maggie' and 'a good spanking' all in the same sentence. I'm fascinated how your mind works OL!!!

[Onelife]

'Maggie' and 'a good spanking' all in the same sentence. I'm fascinated how your mind works OL!!!

let's not go there foxy

[Gill W]

Unfortunately the EU is not for reforming or changing in any way Gill.
Whether we are members or not, their policy is enlargement and more centralisation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11283616

This was never on the referendum paper and many who voted to remain thought that they were voting for the status quo.

in my opinion, it will eventually destroy itself anyway.
It cannot keep taking in poor countries and expecting the wealthier ones to subsidise it all.

It's like taking a roast dinner round to your neighbour while your own family live on bread and dripping.

The mistake that you and others are making is that you think that it's all about trade.
It is not.
It is a political alliance with Brussels at the centre of it all.
They want to harmonise everything to make it one homogenous, single entity.
Be it taxation, military or anything else.
Brussels will rule and you will do as you are told.
Just take a look at the Italy budget situation and you will see what I mean.

The dream is a United States of Europe.

You and others may be quite happy with that.
I and many others are not.

Love Europe
Hate the EU.

No, I'm not making that mistake at all.

The EU is about everything. At 23.00 on 29th March 2019, everything comes to an end, all the treaties and arrangements we have made over 40+ years in the EU - all gone. When I first started posting back in the summer, I said exactly the same thing and that time was running out to make any sort of arrangements so that there wouldn't be disruption to day to day living. Three months later, we haven't moved forward at all, and the situation is becoming even more dire because there's even less time, and there's even less chance that anything tangible is going to be agreed.

However, I stopped talking about it, because I got bored of guffaws and jibes about project fear.

I'd have thought that the best way to fight the format of a United States of Europe would have been from inside. But, like everything else, we are throwing all that away.

Maybe you think all the upcoming uncertainty, chaos and havoc is worth it, just because Brexiters don't like the cut of Albania's jib. That's your prerogative.

[Gill W]

I have reconciled myself to believing the chequers plan is the sensible option for our country and if, and it's becoming an increasingly bigger 'if' we can show a united front the better chance we will have of finally getting out of this prison.

I think it's just you and Teresa May now think that Chequers is not deceased.

If Chequers were still breathing, then surely there'd have been some progress this week. Instead, the EU have said, move along, nothing to see here. So we drift along for another couple of months until the next summit on December 13.

If May is still talking about Chequers by then, God help us all

[barney]

Unfortunately the EU is not for reforming or changing in any way Gill.
Whether we are members or not, their policy is enlargement and more centralisation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11283616

This was never on the referendum paper and many who voted to remain thought that they were voting for the status quo.

in my opinion, it will eventually destroy itself anyway.
It cannot keep taking in poor countries and expecting the wealthier ones to subsidise it all.

It's like taking a roast dinner round to your neighbour while your own family live on bread and dripping.

The mistake that you and others are making is that you think that it's all about trade.
It is not.
It is a political alliance with Brussels at the centre of it all.
They want to harmonise everything to make it one homogenous, single entity.
Be it taxation, military or anything else.
Brussels will rule and you will do as you are told.
Just take a look at the Italy budget situation and you will see what I mean.

The dream is a United States of Europe.

You and others may be quite happy with that.
I and many others are not.

Love Europe
Hate the EU.

No, I'm not making that mistake at all.

The EU is about everything. At 23.00 on 29th March 2019, everything comes to an end, all the treaties and arrangements we have made over 40+ years in the EU - all gone. When I first started posting back in the summer, I said exactly the same thing and that time was running out to make any sort of arrangements so that there wouldn't be disruption to day to day living. Three months later, we haven't moved forward at all, and the situation is becoming even more dire because there's even less time, and there's even less chance that anything tangible is going to be agreed.

However, I stopped talking about it, because I got bored of guffaws and jibes about project fear.

I'd have thought that the best way to fight the format of a United States of Europe would have been from inside. But, like everything else, we are throwing all that away.

Maybe you think all the upcoming uncertainty, chaos and havoc is worth it, just because Brexiters don't like the cut of Albania's jib. That's your prerogative.

I fully understand your concerns Gill, but as I've said previously, my sister in law is a senior civil servant currently seconded to DexEU.
They are working long hours on existing treaties and how to overcome problems.
It may surprise you to find out that most counties are happy to transpose the current EU agreement with a unique UK one.
That is, copy and paste the existing terms into UK terms.
She said that there were some holding out for a better deal but most didn't want to lose any of the very lucrative UK markets.
Even deals that haven't been struck yet can be sorted out easily.
see attached
https://www.politico.eu/article/singapo ... rade-deal/

What this leaving exercise has really highlighted is the massive control and influence that the EU has over it's member states.
Remain tried to play all that down during the referendum, as tried to preach that it was some sort of benevolent organisation that we couldn't live without.
In reality, it's an endless money pit with thousands riding the gravy train.

The EUs's raison d'etre is more EU.
End of.
They say it publicly.
Verhofstadt says it everytime he opens his mouth.
Macron says it publicly. More power to the EU, less to the member states.
Half an hours research will prove that point.

I wish them all the best in their 'project' but have no wish to be part of it.
I also think that the EU will be far less attractive without the clout of the UK.
I wish to be part of a progressive, forward thinking, innovative world class trading nation.
I don't think that we can do that when others are dictating our policies.

[Gill W]

It may surprise you to find out that most counties are happy to transpose the current EU agreement with a unique UK one.
That is, copy and paste the existing terms into UK terms.
She said that there were some holding out for a better deal but most didn't want to lose any of the very lucrative UK markets

Firstly, I'll believe it when I see it (no offence to you) and secondly, all of this would would depend on getting an agreement on our withdrawal terms. And thirdly, bureaucracy takes time - which we are running out of. Whatever the outcome, there will almost certainly be some sort of disruption to our daily lives

Even deals that haven't been struck yet can be sorted out easily.

I've heard that before somewhere!

What this leaving exercise has really highlighted is the massive control and influence that the EU has over it's member states.

The UK helped shape the leaving procedure. Article 50 was written by a British Diplomat. Who'd have thought we'd shape EU policy, and then complain about it !

The EUs's raison d'etre is more EU.
End of.
They say it publicly.
Verhofstadt says it everytime he opens his mouth.
Macron says it publicly. More power to the EU, less to the member states.
Half an hours research will prove that point.

Of course what are looking at the interests of their member states, what else would you expect them to do? It's us that's decided to leave. I think the trouble is, many people think we should be treated as a special case. We're not. We want to leave, and we have to abide by the rules that, as I said above, we were instrumental in drawing up.

[towny44]

It may surprise you to find out that most counties are happy to transpose the current EU agreement with a unique UK one.
That is, copy and paste the existing terms into UK terms.
She said that there were some holding out for a better deal but most didn't want to lose any of the very lucrative UK markets

Firstly, I'll believe it when I see it (no offence to you) and secondly, all of this would would depend on getting an agreement on our withdrawal terms. And thirdly, bureaucracy takes time - which we are running out of. Whatever the outcome, there will almost certainly be some sort of disruption to our daily lives
Gill only a no deal would require immediate action in April next year, any agreement gives us until the end of 2020 to sort out the paperwork.

Even deals that haven't been struck yet can be sorted out easily.

I've heard that before somewhere!
the negative view was part of project fear.

What this leaving exercise has really highlighted is the massive control and influence that the EU has over it's member states.

The UK helped shape the leaving procedure. Article 50 was written by a British Diplomat. Who'd have thought we'd shape EU policy, and then complain about it !
There are lots of pro EU officials littering up desks in our civil service.

The EUs's raison d'etre is more EU.
End of.
They say it publicly.
Verhofstadt says it everytime he opens his mouth.
Macron says it publicly. More power to the EU, less to the member states.
Half an hours research will prove that point.

Of course what are looking at the interests of their member states, what else would you expect them to do? It's us that's decided to leave. I think the trouble is, many people think we should be treated as a special case. We're not. We want to leave, and we have to abide by the rules that, as I said above, we were instrumental in drawing up.

I doubt that the thousands of unemployed youths in the Med states would agree with you Gill.
It's interesting that the EU has not much made of the Irish border issue if there is a no deal, presumably WTO rules would require some sort of border checks, but the EU seem happy with the possibility of no deal, rather than giving serious consideration to TM's chequers proposal.

[oldbluefox]

I'd have thought that the best way to fight the format of a United States of Europe would have been from inside. But, like everything else, we are throwing all that away.

Time and again that has been tried, the last one by Cameron. Enough is enough.

[Ray Scully]

I'd have thought that the best way to fight the format of a United States of Europe would have been from inside. But, like everything else, we are throwing all that away.

Time and again that has been tried, the last one by Cameron. Enough is enough.

To be strictly accurate we did get our way on occasions, staying out of the Euro and Schengen was not insignificant.

But can't spend any more time on her, popping down to London with a friend to join the March. The first time I have had such a long helicopter ride.

[Onelife]

I have reconciled myself to believing the chequers plan is the sensible option for our country and if, and it's becoming an increasingly bigger 'if' we can show a united front the better chance we will have of finally getting out of this prison.

I think it's just you and Teresa May now think that Chequers is not deceased.

If Chequers were still breathing, then surely there'd have been some progress this week. Instead, the EU have said, move along, nothing to see here. So we drift along for another couple of months until the next summit on December 13.

If May is still talking about Chequers by then, God help us all

Hi Gill

It's correct to say l've backed a few donkeys in my time but you must ask yourself why no one else has put themselves forward to take Brexit negotiations in a different direction? If her chequers plan is such a disaster for this country surely one of the prominent Brexiteers would have put a stop to it by now? The truth is at this stage of the negotiations there is only one option worth perusing, less of course you would like to see our only realistic chance of a deal toppled by a gang of brexieers who couldn't put together any realistic alternative other than to keep spouting... "we could do this or that" without really knowing what "this or that" would really mean for this country.

Regards

Keith

[barney]

****EARLY BREXIT BONUS****

The Uber hypocrtite Nick Clegg is leaving the country to take a a job with …… Facebook.

Yep, that is the very same Facebook that he has been slagging off for a number of years for not paying the correct income tax.

A million dollar salary apparently, and just a few short weeks ago from saying in an interview that he would never give up trying to keep the UK in the European Union.
So, ex MEP Clegg is giving up on his dream of a federal Europe for a handful of shiny stuff.

I wonder if he can find a position for Chukka Umuna

[Ray Scully]

****EARLY BREXIT BONUS****

The Uber hypocrtite Nick Clegg is leaving the country to take a a job with …… Facebook.

Yep, that is the very same Facebook that he has been slagging off for a number of years for not paying the correct income tax.

A million dollar salary apparently, and just a few short weeks ago from saying in an interview that he would never give up trying to keep the UK in the European Union.
So, ex MEP Clegg is giving up on his dream of a federal Europe for a handful of shiny stuff.

I wonder if he can find a position for Chukka Umuna

Barney, just maybe he can make more of an impact on the FB culture from the inside. I don't know, but I won't judge the situation without having the facts.

[Manoverboard]

You want facts … he's a money grabbing unprincipled git … seemples

[Ray Scully]

You want facts … he's a money grabbing unprincipled git … seemples

A trait not restricted to politicians