Brexit

[johnds]

Please stop with "the people" propaganda, I might be forced to quote the figures yet again and we are all aware how forum members are fed up with being reminded how close that vote actually was.

Yawn.............

[Jack Staff]

As Brexit is not going to happen, I'm quite happy thanks!

Jack
I've asked this before without response
If you are so convinced of this why are you bothering to waste your time posting every bit of negtaive news that you can find on here in what you must realise is a fruitless atempt to get anyone to change their minds.

Because you need to know just how bad Brexit would be.

Well I'm not sure i trust you to educate me

You don't have to trust me. Read what our government says....
https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio ... th-no-deal

[johnds]

Jack
I've asked this before without response
If you are so convinced of this why are you bothering to waste your time posting every bit of negtaive news that you can find on here in what you must realise is a fruitless atempt to get anyone to change their minds.

Because you need to know just how bad Brexit would be.

Well I'm not sure i trust you to educate me

You don't have to trust me. Read what our government says....
https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio ... th-no-deal

Yawn ....

[barney]

Jack
I've asked this before without response
If you are so convinced of this why are you bothering to waste your time posting every bit of negtaive news that you can find on here in what you must realise is a fruitless atempt to get anyone to change their minds.

Because you need to know just how bad Brexit would be.

Well I'm not sure i trust you to educate me

You don't have to trust me. Read what our government says....
https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio ... th-no-deal

Have you actually opened that link and read the contents.
It all seems very sensible advice to me.
I don't see any problem in highlighting technical difficulties in the event of no agreement.


This is the sort of thing my sister in law has been working on for eighteen months while the doom merchants have been bemoaning the 'fact' that we not making preparations.
Waht would you prefer Jack? Do nothing?

I know that you are still under the illusion that we are not actually leaving the EU but Macrh 30th you'll realise that your anti democrat mates have sold you a pup.

[towny44]

Jack
I've asked this before without response
If you are so convinced of this why are you bothering to waste your time posting every bit of negtaive news that you can find on here in what you must realise is a fruitless atempt to get anyone to change their minds.

Because you need to know just how bad Brexit would be.

Well I'm not sure i trust you to educate me

You don't have to trust me. Read what our government says....
https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio ... th-no-deal

Jack, these are only in the event of a no deal brexit, if there is a deal then most likely little will change, at least initially. So stop spreading Project Fear the final boring sequel, 'Jack doesn't want to leave'.

[barney]

Do you want to be lied to?

That's what got us into this mess in the first place.

That would be the lie that told us that if we dared to vote leave there would have to be an emergency budget within days, would it ?

Let's be real. BOTH sides told lies, untruths exagerations, call it what you will

It is unfortunately called politics

In the case of Leave, I and the law of this country call it illegal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44856992

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rexit.html

It appears that even some of your facts my be inaccurate .
Not so much being illegal as given the wrong answer when asking for information.
Q. Can we divert this additional funding?
A. Yes.
At least they have done the honourable thing and fallen on their sword.

Keep clutching at those straws. there will be another one along in a minute.

[Jack Staff]

To paraphrase these responses:
I don't want to be educated.
The government is putting itself and the country on a war footing (for a war on itself). Democracy now means nobody has a say any more.
Don't want to know how bad the decision to leave was.

[barney]

"Democracy now means nobody has a say any more."

You get your say at the next election or next referendum (which ever comes sooner)

You've had you say in 2016.
You voted and the side you voted for lost.
Surely you cannot just keep flogging this dead horse.
It's borderline madness.
It's like a toddler who won't take no for an answer.

I was watching Soubry the other night and have serious concerns for her welfare.
The same with Alistair Campbell.
The TV companies keep trotting him out to spout his irrelevant rubbish when really he needs to be being looked after, not exploited.
He's clearly suffering mentally from his latest obsession.

The next GE is 2022 or sooner.
Keep your powder dry and vote for which ever party declares that they will take us back into the EU by way of securing enough seats to carry it through.

THAT is democracy Jack.

[Gill W]

Sitting back and saying ' I told you so'?

Gill

With respect it seems to me that you entered panic mode about Brexit 3 or 4 months ago and believe all of the negative propaganda that abounds.

Yes Brexit is proving difficult
It is proving difficult because of the intransigence of many factions.
In no particular order :-
Te Labour party by treating the whole thing as a political game in order to try to overthow the government
The right wing of the Conservative party ( Boris etc) by insisting in trying to achieve the unachievable
The left wing of the Conservative party (Soubery, Grieve etc) by refusing to accept in any way the democratic decion of the populous whilst standing on a manifesto that accepted that decision and promised to implement it.
Teresa May who threw away a General election and now finds herself unable to withdraw the whip from either side and is unable to rid herself of a lack lustre chancellor
The EU in general and Mr Barnier in particular whose approach has been the familiar one of non negotiation and making things so difficult in the belief that they would persuade us to give up on Brexit as they have done before.

In so dong they underestimate the resilience of the British people

Just because Brexit is difficult is no reason to give in and give it up.

If in the dark days of 1942 my country had adopted that approach they would have invited Herr Hitler to cross the chanel and handed him the keys.

We didn't do that and to coin an overused phrase "kept calm and carried on"

In 1967 I voted for the country to join a free trade area. When that changed via Maastricht etc into a full blown poilitiacl union the Govenment of the day did not dare to give people a vote bec\use they knew they would lose. Repeat.

Now the peole have expressed their view and we should get on with it, warts and all, because the prize is a free and independent country which will be able to make its own way in the world.

The 'wink' smilie showed I was making a little joke

However.......

No - you are wrong.

I'm not in any sort of panic mode at all.

I'm noting what knowledgeable people have said and I'm making my plans accordingly.

I can't help thinking that the Brexiters are clinging on to their ideologies and rhetoric in a desperate attempt to ignore what is happening all around them. In a week where the news has included the National Audit Office advising that the UK Border is not ready for a no-deal Brexit, the cabinet reacts with shock and disbelief that the government is planning to charter ships to bring in medicines and food, and Liam Fox's plans for 'cut and paste' WTO trade deals have been scuppered, I think there's every reason to think that Brexit really isn't a good idea and will most likely leave us in a far worse position than we're in now.

I really don't know what has happened to this country, where we are shooting ourselves in the foot, and insist we have to carry on shooting ourselves in the foot because we decided it would be a good idea 2 years ago.

I'm glad you mentioned the war - it's been said we are putting ourselves on a war footing. But the madness is, it's all self inflicted.

Come March, there'll be a lot of people in a panic, but I won't be one of them.

[Gill W]

And so say all of us.. give or take a few

Well, you are all wrong, aren't you?

[Onelife]

And so say all of us.. give or take a few

Well, you are all wrong, aren't you?

Hi Gill...We may well be shooting ourselves in the foot but it would be more favorable than having a gun held against our heads having taken the decision to leave. We would become the EU's puppets should we allow our destiny to be decided by them. ...."not that they haven't been pulling our strings for years anyway".

"Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely"
Lord Acton.

We are at the stage where EU power has corrupted...but not absolutely?.....which is why we need to get out before absolute power dose corrupt absolutely.

Regards

Keith

[Gill W]

This forum has become a peculiar place.

I spend time on Twitter, and it can be quite extreme there, but even on Twitter there is no where near the level of fear and loathing of the EU than there is on this forum. It’s like you Brexiters are all stoking each other’s paranoia. It’s quite astonishing to see.

I can only think it helps you all justify the way you voted, and insulates you from facing the impending calamity of Brexit.

I hope for your sakes you don’t have a rude awakening some time in early April.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Twitter is a strange place in that we choose to follow whom we wish. We therefore tend to see the views of like minded people who think the way we do and reinforce our view. Just like choosing whether to read the Guardian or the Mail. The only true measure of fear, loathing or simply mistrust of the EU was the referendum where the majority of those who could be bothered to vote chose to leave. Of course those who voted to stay believe it was the wrong choice and they are fully entitled to their view. But that doesn't make the result less valid.

[barney]

Maybe the average poster on this subject on here is more aware than the average Twitterati.

I certainly have no fear or loathing of the EU and sincerely hope that they flourish after we have left.
We need wealthy trading partners, wherever they may be.

Those who bother to do the research know full well which way the EU is going and it's not the way that I want our country to go.

Maybe the ones who wish to remain in it are fine with that.

I think a telling question is, would this country vote to join the EU if there was a vote tomorrow?

What do you think, honestly?

With all the facts exposed before the vote.

Maybe the referendum result wasn't really to leave the EU but to not remain in it?

[towny44]

We are all really going round in circles on this, all of us reiterating our main reasons for our voting decisions, which seems unlikely to change, so until there is a final decision on whether there is some sort of agreement or no deal at all, its unlikely there will be anything new to discuss.
I do believe that we all now know far more about leaving the EU than we did back in 2016, but that still does not seem to have changed our voting decisions, now how far we can extrapolate that to the rest of the electorate I don't really know, but I suspect it does reflect the current situation, despite Gill thinking all brexiters are plain daft.

[Manoverboard]

Those of us on here who voted to leave are, I believe, generally more intelligent and wise than some of the idiots who post on ' Twitter '.

Most of us are also of an age where we have experienced life with and indeed without the influences of the EU. We voted to join way back believing that our future would be brighter. However we can see clearer than some which way the EU is heading and want NO part of it … that does not equate to a loathing of the EU and it is well out of order to suggest otherwise.

[barney]

It will be interesting to see which way it goes with Italy's budget.
The EU have rejected it and said go back and do a new one.
Italy have said that they will not change a single comma.
https://www.politico.eu/article/matteo- ... he-budget/
So, one side will have to give ground.

I suppose that it begs the question of, is it the EU's job to set a countries budget.
They got away with it with Greece, but Italy is a different ball game.

May in Brussels cry 'the rules, the rules' but then happily turn a blind eye when Germany break 'the rules'
https://viribusnews.com/germany-break-eu-rules/

See, a little bit of research shows the EU up for what it really is.
Many Remainers choose to ignore the facts that don't bolster their argument against a free and democratic vote.

[Ray Scully]

Those of us on here who voted to leave are, I believe, generally more intelligent and wise than some of the idiots who post on ' Twitter '.

Most of us are also of an age where we have experienced life with and indeed without the influences of the EU. We voted to join way back believing that our future would be brighter. However we can see clearer than some which way the EU is heading and want NO part of it … that does not equate to a loathing of the EU and it is well out of order to suggest otherwise.

Moby Folk have as many differing views on the EU as there are on the differing reason why we should be leaving, resulting in an inconclusive dog's breakfast.

[towny44]

Those of us on here who voted to leave are, I believe, generally more intelligent and wise than some of the idiots who post on ' Twitter '.

Most of us are also of an age where we have experienced life with and indeed without the influences of the EU. We voted to join way back believing that our future would be brighter. However we can see clearer than some which way the EU is heading and want NO part of it … that does not equate to a loathing of the EU and it is well out of order to suggest otherwise.

Moby Folk have as many differing views on the EU as there are on the differing reason why we should be leaving, resulting in an inconclusive dog's breakfast.

That's a very cynical view Ray, just about everything we have opinions about will throw up a wide variation of reasons why people hold them, without them being called a dog's breakfast.

[barney]

Those of us on here who voted to leave are, I believe, generally more intelligent and wise than some of the idiots who post on ' Twitter '.

Most of us are also of an age where we have experienced life with and indeed without the influences of the EU. We voted to join way back believing that our future would be brighter. However we can see clearer than some which way the EU is heading and want NO part of it … that does not equate to a loathing of the EU and it is well out of order to suggest otherwise.

Moby Folk have as many differing views on the EU as there are on the differing reason why we should be leaving, resulting in an inconclusive dog's breakfast.

Surely Ray, the different reasons for leaving the EU are irrelevant now, as are the differing views on why we should ignore the vote.

The inconclusive dogs breakfast has not been caused by the vote to leave, it's been caused by the Government of the day.
Had May decided a route out, whatever that happened to be, and stuck to it, most of these problems could have been avoided.
Labour's policy is outside of the single market and an end to free movement but remaining in the/a customs union.
We'll never know if they could have seen that through as they lost the last election. At least they had a plan.

May's policy of flip, flopping around and trying to please all has ended with pleasing no one.

May is the problem, not the vote to leave.

Had she taken a stance from the beginning and stuck to it, she might have had a better chance of seeing it through.
She should have stated her position and selected a cabinet that agreed with her, then gone for it, whatever it was.
You cannot govern by consensus at that level.

History will judge her badly as a PM.
All we've had from her is Brexit means Brexit !!!!

Her main quality seems to be exceptional at being a punch bag.

A leader leads. She has shown no leadership in my opinion.
She has allowed the EU to dictate all of the negotiating terms and timetables and that shows weakness.

She should never have put herself up for the job, without the ability to do a good one.

She is doomed as the PM, it's just a matter of when.

[Ray Scully]

Those of us on here who voted to leave are, I believe, generally more intelligent and wise than some of the idiots who post on ' Twitter '.

Most of us are also of an age where we have experienced life with and indeed without the influences of the EU. We voted to join way back believing that our future would be brighter. However we can see clearer than some which way the EU is heading and want NO part of it … that does not equate to a loathing of the EU and it is well out of order to suggest otherwise.

Moby Folk have as many differing views on the EU as there are on the differing reason why we should be leaving, resulting in an inconclusive dog's breakfast.

That's a very cynical view Ray, just about everything we have opinions about will throw up a wide variation of reasons why people hold them, without them being called a dog's breakfast.

Cynical! not really John considering that our future relationship with the EU is the most important decision facing the country in my lifetime.

[barney]

Those of us on here who voted to leave are, I believe, generally more intelligent and wise than some of the idiots who post on ' Twitter '.

Most of us are also of an age where we have experienced life with and indeed without the influences of the EU. We voted to join way back believing that our future would be brighter. However we can see clearer than some which way the EU is heading and want NO part of it … that does not equate to a loathing of the EU and it is well out of order to suggest otherwise.

Moby Folk have as many differing views on the EU as there are on the differing reason why we should be leaving, resulting in an inconclusive dog's breakfast.

That's a very cynical view Ray, just about everything we have opinions about will throw up a wide variation of reasons why people hold them, without them being called a dog's breakfast.

Cynical! not really John considering that our future relationship with the EU is the most important decision facing the country in my lifetime.

You are worrying un-necessarily Ray.
Of course we will have a relationship with the EU after we have left.
Do you seriously think that they can ignore the fifth largest economy in the world that is sitting on it's doorstep.

It will be a different relationship, that's all.
The EU is generally protectionist so a lot will depend on the pressure put on by member states for access to the UK market.
We do after all, have a 90 billion a year trade deficit with the 27, but it's mainly the top five.
https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/

It will be one of trading partners, the same as it has with say, Japan or South Korea.
We will buy their stuff and they will buy our stuff.
Money makes the world go round.
Have you noticed how unconcerned the City of London is about it all.
That is because the EU are planning universal European taxation of financial dealings.
This was intended to harm London's standing as a member state and equalise the process, but of course now, we are leaving so they can't influence London.
This one move would have put billions into the EU coffers at the cost to us.
They now have the worry of an independent trading nation on it's doorstep, that will dance to it's own tune.
They have every reason to be worried.
Should the EU decide to get nasty in the future, the UK simply revises it's business taxation to attract new money.

The politicians like to think that they are in charge, but in reality, it's all about the money men.
Why do you think that George Soros is chucking millions at the 'people's vote' campaign?
The status quo suits him at the moment.
Freedom of capital is very important to a speculator.

[Ray Scully]

Moby Folk have as many differing views on the EU as there are on the differing reason why we should be leaving, resulting in an inconclusive dog's breakfast.

That's a very cynical view Ray, just about everything we have opinions about will throw up a wide variation of reasons why people hold them, without them being called a dog's breakfast.

Cynical! not really John considering that our future relationship with the EU is the most important decision facing the country in my lifetime.

You are worrying un-necessarily Ray.
Of course we will have a relationship with the EU after we have left.
Do you seriously think that they can ignore the fifth largest economy in the world that is sitting on it's doorstep.

It will be a different relationship, that's all.
The EU is generally protectionist so a lot will depend on the pressure put on by member states for access to the UK market.
We do after all, have a 90 billion a year trade deficit with the 27, but it's mainly the top five.
https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/

It will be one of trading partners, the same as it has with say, Japan or South Korea.
We will buy their stuff and they will buy our stuff.
Money makes the world go round.
Have you noticed how unconcerned the City of London is about it all.
That is because the EU are planning universal European taxation of financial dealings.
This was intended to harm London's standing as a member state and equalise the process, but of course now, we are leaving so they can't influence London.
This one move would have put billions into the EU coffers at the cost to us.
They now have the worry of an independent trading nation on it's doorstep, that will dance to it's own tune.
They have every reason to be worried.
Should the EU decide to get nasty in the future, the UK simply revises it's business taxation to attract new money.

The politicians like to think that they are in charge, but in reality, it's all about the money men.
Why do you think that George Soros is chucking millions at the 'people's vote' campaign?
The status quo suits him at the moment.
Freedom of capital is very important to a speculator.

Barney, I sincerely hope your hypothesis comes to pass. However, and after listening to John McDonnell this morning, and as a backstop, I have decided to go back to college to learn to speak Mandarin, this on the assumption that we could become a northern Singapore

[barney]

The City are more concerned with a Corbyn/McDonnel government than they are about Brexit Ray.

Many of my son's friends work in finance in the City and they have concerns about Brexit but are not overly concerned.
One of his old school mates was on Bloomberg just last week saying as much.

One of my best friends is an Actuary for a major company in the City.
Last year they sent round a questionaire in his company asking about potential relaocation to Frankfurt.
Not a single taker, Ray.
My friend was/is a staunch remainer but not for the reasons that you may think.
He simply states that when we leave, he will probably have more work to do.

So far, thousands of City jobs have supposed to have been transferred to the EU.
The real number is in the hundreds.
Lloyds of London have opened a subsiduary office in brussels with about thirty staff in it
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/lloy ... 52291.html
This is purely seen as an insurance policy.

From my point of view, I wouldn't mind Labour having a go at running the place.
Austerity has gone too far in my opinion, but that's for another arguement.

[Ray Scully]

From my point of view, I wouldn't mind Labour having a go at running the place.
Austerity has gone too far in my opinion, but that's for another argument.

Well how about this as a starter Barney. NI contributions to be paid by those over 65 with an income of circa £25K (contribution to the disproportionate costs of treating we oldies) A 10% tax on house sales on bereavement of the last partner ( To provide for social care funding). A minimum wage of £10 (would help to stop taxpayer topping up low wages. A massive house building project to bring down private rents (again subsidised by the taxpayer)

Right! collecting my hard had and heading for the bunker