Brexit

[barney]

I personally wouldn't object to another referendum as long as the question was the same.
I.E.
Would you like to remain in the EU?
Would you like to leave the EU?

I'd have a punt on the result being pretty much the same.

Project Fear would go into hyper drive and be called Project Hysteria!
But still a small majority would remain unconvinced that membership of the EU is best for the long term prosperity of this nation.

A peak into the future shows that next year, Juncker is gone, likely to be replaced by Weber.( federalist)
Tusk will be gone, likely to be replaced by a federalist.
The EU will have a new parliament. Who can say how that goes?
Albania and Macedonia will enter the EU.
Then there is the Italian problem.
Then there is the EU migration problem.
The EU stumbles from crisis to crisis.
We can do without the aggro to be honest.

[Manoverboard]

Donald Tusk tells EU to approve deal after Spain withdraws its threat to boycott the summit.



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[david63]

EU agree draft agreement

[barney]

As Theresa jets off to Brussels l hope she is of mind to tweak the withdrawal draft with a clause that states "other countries can't undermine the process for their own political gain".

There should be no concessions to Spain over Gibraltar whatsoever....it belongs to the UK.....get over it Spain.

This is a very simple circle to square.
Spain is a democracy.
The UK is a democracy.
Gibraltar is a democracy.
So, simply ask the resident voters of Gibraltar under which administration they wish to live and abide by the result.
If they choose Spain so be it.
I was there last week at it did seem to be more British than my local high street, but democracy must trump everything else.

From Spain's PM today
“I declare myself a militant pro-European,” he said, sitting on a white leather chair beneath a painting by Joan Miró. “I believe that the challenge facing the EU is to write a new social contract that we are not going to be able to build or write at the level of the member states, and we have to do it at a joint level, at the level of the EU. And in that sense, with the misfortune of Brexit, with the anti-Europeanism that Italy, the Italian government, is showing right now, I believe that … the axis that should be articulated is that of Berlin, Paris, Madrid — to which I would also add Lisbon.”

[Onelife]

As Theresa jets off to Brussels l hope she is of mind to tweak the withdrawal draft with a clause that states "other countries can't undermine the process for their own political gain".

There should be no concessions to Spain over Gibraltar whatsoever....it belongs to the UK.....get over it Spain.

This is a very simple circle to square.
Spain is a democracy.
The UK is a democracy.
Gibraltar is a democracy.
So, simply ask the resident voters of Gibraltar under which administration they wish to live and abide by the result.
If they choose Spain so be it.
I was there last week at it did seem to be more British than my local high street, but democracy must trump everything else.

From Spain's PM today
“I declare myself a militant pro-European,” he said, sitting on a white leather chair beneath a painting by Joan Miró. “I believe that the challenge facing the EU is to write a new social contract that we are not going to be able to build or write at the level of the member states, and we have to do it at a joint level, at the level of the EU. And in that sense, with the misfortune of Brexit, with the anti-Europeanism that Italy, the Italian government, is showing right now, I believe that … the axis that should be articulated is that of Berlin, Paris, Madrid — to which I would also add Lisbon.”

Hi Barney,

As long as we keep shipping in the monkey's the rock should be safe in our hands ..or as Peter Caruana (former Gibraltar Chief Minister) said... “There is more chance of hell freezing over than the people of Gibraltar accepting Spanish sovereignty in any shape or form.

Unfortunately the historic cannons have been replaced with veto's and your guess is probably better than my as to what happens when/if we come to make trade deals








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[Manoverboard]

... Someone said, many months back, that the final deal won't be done until the 11 hour, this could well turn out to be the case …

That ' someone ' was me but other Members could have also made the same assessment

Probably before you Mob

According to a Topic Search it was indeed Moi …. see #2948

[Onelife]

Don't get patting yourself on the back quite yet Mob, there's still 123 days 12 hours, 15 minutes and counting to go before you get a box of keefy chocolates.

[Stephen]

Don't get patting yourself on the back quite yet Mob, there's still 123 days 12 hours, 15 minutes and counting to go before you get a box of keefy chocolates.

Check the use by date Moby.

[Manoverboard]

Don't get patting yourself on the back quite yet Mob, there's still 123 days 12 hours, 15 minutes and counting to go before you get a box of keefy chocolates.

Check the use by date Moby.

Dead right, I will also check to see if they've been re-sealed as he's likely to swap the coffee ones with coconut ones

[barney]

EXPOSED: The backstop has nothing to do with an Irish border.

“The French President said that unless a new fishing agreement is agreed by the end of 2020, maintaining reciprocal access to waters and imposing the same quotas as today, he would seek to trigger the ‘backstop’ included in the UK’s divorce deal, keeping it under EU customs rules.“

May has been well and truly conned by the ultimate conmen of the EU.
In business terms, she has been mugged off .
Shame on her.

[Manoverboard]

NON … Monsieur Macron is just making suitable loud noises to appease his extremely militant fishermen, it will be farmers next week.

[Onelife]

It could just be that Maccaroni and the others are threatening blackmail to re-enforce Brussels stance that there is no other deal avaliable?

[barney]

It could just be that Maccaroni and the others are threatening blackmail to re-enforce Brussels stance that there is no other deal avaliable?

Don't you believe it Keefy !

With what May has 'negotiated' the UK will be tied to the EU until the EU says so.
There is no unilateral release from the agreement.
She has capitualted at every turn in true Remainer style.
I think that it's slightly immaterial anyway because anyone who can read and has a basic knowledge of English could drive a bus through this 'deal'
So, the UK leaves leaves the EU March 2019 but ... remains in the EU ad infinitum.
Parliament will never stand for it.
And rightly so.

[Gill W]

It could just be that Maccaroni and the others are threatening blackmail to re-enforce Brussels stance that there is no other deal avaliable?

Don't you believe it Keefy !

With what May has 'negotiated' the UK will be tied to the EU until the EU says so.
There is no unilateral release from the agreement.
She has capitualted at every turn in true Remainer style.
I think that it's slightly immaterial anyway because anyone who can read and has a basic knowledge of English could drive a bus through this 'deal'
So, the UK leaves leaves the EU March 2019 but ... remains in the EU ad infinitum.
Parliament will never stand for it.
And rightly so.

Apart from the standard dig at Remainers, I agree with most of what you say.

There hasn't been much adverse comment on this forum regarding the withdrawal agreement, and certainly not in such robust terms as you have used.

I'm glad you have spoken up.

[anniec]

And what about the future sovereignty of Gibraltar?

[Onelife]

Even the most ardent of remaineers must now be questioning their conscience as to whether a second referendum is a good option for the UK. With France and Spain already implying they will veto trade deals....so what dose that say about any future membership of the EU..."are remaineers really prepared to waggle their tails so that we can become part of the EU flock again"?

Been there done it......no thank you!!

[Gill W]

And what about the future sovereignty of Gibraltar?

Indeed.

Under May's withdrawal agreement, Spain would no doubt veto any trade deal in order to gain an advantage regarding Gibraltar.

Not to mention any other country with an axe to grind threatening their power of veto too.

Potentially, it'd take years for a trade agreement to be agreed, and all the time we'd be rule takers from the EU, unable to extricate ourselves.

[Onelife]

And what about the future sovereignty of Gibraltar?

Indeed.

Under May's withdrawal agreement, Spain would no doubt veto any trade deal in order to gain an advantage regarding Gibraltar.

Not to mention any other country with an axe to grind threatening their power of veto too.

Potentially, it'd take years for a trade agreement to be agreed, and all the time we'd be rule takers from the EU, unable to extricate ourselves.

So which side of the fence are you sitting now Gill?

[Gill W]

Even the most ardent of remaineers must now be questioning their conscience as to whether a second referendum is a good option for the UK. With France and Spain already implying they will veto trade deals....so what dose that say about any future membership of the EU..."are remaineers really prepared to waggle their tails so that we can become part of the EU flock again"?

Been there done it......no thank you!!

I'll answer your question, but once again, I've noted the unpleasant tone about Remainers that seems to be the standard practice among certain members of this forum.

This is not the EU saying they'll veto trade deals, it's individual countries, using an opportunity to promote and protect their own interests. If the boot were on the other foot, the UK would be doing exactly the same thing.

[Gill W]

And what about the future sovereignty of Gibraltar?

Indeed.

Under May's withdrawal agreement, Spain would no doubt veto any trade deal in order to gain an advantage regarding Gibraltar.

Not to mention any other country with an axe to grind threatening their power of veto too.

Potentially, it'd take years for a trade agreement to be agreed, and all the time we'd be rule takers from the EU, unable to extricate ourselves.

So which side of the fence are you sitting now Gill?

I'm sitting on no fence at all .

I voted Remain, and still feel that Remaining in the EU is best for the future prosperity and security of our country.

The Withdrawal Agreement is terrible, leaves us worse off than we are now, and makes us rule takers with no place at the table to have our say. I can't support that.

[towny44]

Even the most ardent of remaineers must now be questioning their conscience as to whether a second referendum is a good option for the UK. With France and Spain already implying they will veto trade deals....so what dose that say about any future membership of the EU..."are remaineers really prepared to waggle their tails so that we can become part of the EU flock again"?

Been there done it......no thank you!!

I'll answer your question, but once again, I've noted the unpleasant tone about Remainers that seems to be the standard practice among certain members of this forum.

This is not the EU saying they'll veto trade deals, it's individual countries, using an opportunity to promote and protect their own interests. If the boot were on the other foot, the UK would be doing exactly the same thing.

Gill, you really are being thin skinned if you consider that Keefies initial comment about remainers is unpleasant, I have read it several times and cannot find a shred of nastiness in it.

[Gill W]

Gill, you really are being thin skinned if you consider that Keefies initial comment about remainers is unpleasant, I have read it several times and cannot find a shred of nastiness in it.

The constant drip, drip, drip of comments has a cumulative effect.

[towny44]

Gill, you really are being thin skinned if you consider that Keefies initial comment about remainers is unpleasant, I have read it several times and cannot find a shred of nastiness in it.

The constant drip, drip, drip of comments has a cumulative effect.

You mean like the constant references to the stupidity of brexiteers voting to make the country poorer?

[barney]

I'd imagine that most ardent Remainers will be chuffed as Punch with May's terrible agreement.
It basically keeps the UK in the EU by stealth - A perfect Brino

It's the UK's Hotel California moment.

Democracy can only be upheld with consent of the losing side.
The anti democrats have clearly won this one, should it go through.

For my own take, I'd be happy to leave in March with absolutely no agreements whatsoever.
Then, and only then, as an outside country should we entertain negotiating EU access to our lucrative market.

[Gill W]

Gill, you really are being thin skinned if you consider that Keefies initial comment about remainers is unpleasant, I have read it several times and cannot find a shred of nastiness in it.

The constant drip, drip, drip of comments has a cumulative effect.

You mean like the constant references to the stupidity of brexiteers voting to make the country poorer?

There are not posts like that on a daily basis on this forum. I certainly have never said anything like that.