Budget Day

[howard18]

Paul,
I can't agree with you over your comment that savings are a luxury that just sit there gaining a small amount of interest............

If you don't like the banks then think of Credit Unions which I am sure you realise are in fact "banks" set up by groups of people with a common interest to help people who would not trust banks (or understand them) in general. These institutions take a workers savings in and then lend it out at a reasonable rate of return (with no security) to someone in need. These type of "banks" are very popular with people on low incomes. Your savings (which of course earn interest) can help people in great need of small loans.

You need to make money work for you - whatever your beliefs. If I were licenced, you could give me a few thousand, I would pay you double the interest you are currently earning and still make a decent profit. Enough for me to build another house - which would give employment to many workers - who pay their taxes and so the money goes round.

I may well live in Lincolnshire now - but I grew up in the very hard East End of London.

[Manoverboard]

... I am only talking 10% of savings.....I don't want to clear people out....

Well that's really decent of you Paul but I've already paid 40% on it so pi66 off and use your own money to hand out to the shirkers and wasters of this Country

[Boris+]

I've had a look at the calculator thing - thanks Paul for putting the link. It makes me about £104 better off - however, if this property thing goes right then the situation could be quite interesting.

Oh well - whatever! The main thing is to have a look at the new rules/opportunities etc., and make the most of it.

Em

[Onelife]

Is there a standard price for a pint of beer because every pub I’ve been in tends to mark up their prices according to where the pub is situated and the type of customers that walks through the door.

I travelled back from Wales on Sunday and saw fluctuations of up to 3p on a litre of petrol, so although the 3p fuel duty charge has been suspended we are still at the mercy of garages who seem to charge what they like.

[Boris+]

Hi Keith,

I know I may be stating the blasted obvious, but we find that it's always best to try and get fuel at Asda. Sometimes if we are off to an area we don't know, we have a look on petrolprices.com .

It's just a matter of planning - boring I know, but it does for us.

Em

[Dark Knight]

PTE
The second they announce this theft of my savings, I will empty my bank account
there is no way on this planet I am giving my money to lazy work shy scroungers who see benefits as a lifestyle choice
the govenrment should stop giving money out to any country who asks, they should tax the mega rich properly, collect back and overdue taxes form corporations, and non doms and stop bankers and footballers earning obscene wages

they should cap child benefit after the second child and any family earning over 60K gets nothing, then they should cap housing benefit at £300 per week regardless and stop life long benefit sloths from using the system as a wage and baby making machines should be reigned in as well
I am sick and tired of being made the target for easy pickings by a stupid government who cannot balance the books and if anyone thinks this is an I 'm alright jack post, they are bloody well spot on
why should I bail out some feckless dosser who hasn't worked a day in their life

[Kendhni]

Ken....Yeah why not.....Most people on benefits ain't feckless, they are just unlucky but you are right....there are loads of people who ain't got any savings, not because they spend all their money on booze or fags or football but because they need all their income to survive....these people do exist...They reckon that many use their credit cards to buy food.

I am only talking 10% of savings.....I don't want to clear people out....I don't see why that would affect pensions or wipe out the welfare state...Reposessions are happening now and inflation is going up now. Savings are a luxury that just sit there doing nothing apart from gaining a tiny amount of interest, why shouldn't those with plenty do something that hurts to help the country out of this mess we are apparently in.

What will happen is that there will be a run on banks and faith in banks and government would collapse (possibly globally). Once the banks have been emptied of money then it will be impossible for them to lend or to operate (under the new regulations) because they would have no capital. This means that what money there is to be lent could then fall into the category of supply and demand ... interest rates would soar. This would lead to many businesses having to increase prices to fund their borrowings which would push up inflation ... and those businesses that can not push up their prices will have little choice but to go insolvent, pushing up unemployment.

As people are made redundant the banks may have no choice but to repossess goods and properties (to retain solvency) ... the government would be left to find affected people housing ... but there is none ... that means the government may have to put them up in expensive hotels or private rentals ... but it could fund this by a global reduction in benefits, pensions etc. ... thereby ensuring we would all be in it together.

On the other side there would be many countries that would not punish people putting money on deposit or investing in their industries ... such money flows could make the current economic crisis in the likes of Greece look like a picnic

That is the problem with ill thought out ideas, they rarely look at the long term or possible impact.

I realise those with savings and plenty won't find this popular but I would willingly give up 10% of my savings, they can have it tomorrow......'We are all this together'...remember.

It's easy to say that when it is not your money .. however there is nothing stopping any individual from donating 10% (or more) extra from their pay/benefits/??? towards those in genuine poverty. What you find though is that people are usually only generous with other peoples money.

[oldbluefox]

You've got it on yer today DK!!!

Not quite how I would have put it but I agree with most of what you say. I am heartily sick of hearing about 'the vulnerable' in our society. There are those in genuine need who have hit on hard times and the benefit system is there as a safety net. Then there are literally thousands of others who choose benefit as a lifestyle choice who milk the system and make a very good living out of it too. Meanwhile those who have been prudent, have worked hard, denied themselves in order to live within their means and put away something for a rainy day are now seen as 'comfortable or well off'.

As one who has known very hard times and never claimed benefit in my life I now resent those who litter our streets with no intention ever of working for a living and until we make work pay better than benefit they never will work. I want my taxes to pay for those in genuine need.

[Dark Knight]

OBF
i am sick and tired of PC people and governments giving in to the dregs of scociety, make em work for the benefits, make em contribute in a positive way, rather than give them more hand outs
I have enough of bleedin heart liberals telling me about real poverty and the underclass etc etc
there is no such thing and unless someone makes some very hard unpopular choices this country will be paying for this shambles for decades
just coz I have worked and studied to get to where i am comfortable , does not mean some lazy idle moron should get my money, nor does it mean I am willing to give it away when the top 10% of the earners do all they can to cheat the system

yes I am blunt but I bet a lot of people agree but are too pc to say so

[Boris+]

Hi DN - I can't stand scroungers either. I find it difficult to tolerate young scrounding single mothers who find money to somehow buy the current fashion, loads of make up and the current trendy phone - but their kids certainly don't look very well looked after, and certainly not very happy or well fed either.

I wonder whether if these people are in 'need' (because they are too dim or too lazy etc) why don't they get given vouchers - maybe that way the benefits meant for the kiddies would reach the kiddies.

Sorry - it just makes me angry to see the children suffer.

Em

[Onelife]

Hi Darknightie

I’m pleased to see that you’ve taken onboard OBF’s comments and toned down your latest post

It seems lubricous that we should be forking out benefits with nothing in exchange. I’ve heard it said that the cost of administering such a scheme wouldn’t be cost effective but I can’t see this myself when you consider the many projects that would benefit from a little hard graft.

The biggest threat to this country is work apathy... once this sets in it becomes a very long way back to work....so whatever the cost of setting up such a scheme I’m sure it would pay dividends in the long term.

Regards

Keith

[Dark Knight]

what is wrong with getting benefit claimants to work, there must be loads of projects from cleaning graffitti to cleaning up rivers and towns
so what is so wrong with them working??

[Boris+]

The problem is that some of them just don't want to do those sort of jobs.

They can't see the sense that getting a track record behind them can lead to something better.

Em

[paultheeagle]

Paul, surely theft is theft no matter who the thief is?

Helen...... Governments have been robbing us blind for years...Just ask the low paid, the old, the sick and the young.

I got me Council Tax bill for 2013/14 the other day and despite Dave and his thieving cronies telling me that they have frozen council tax....the scrotes on Croydon Council have put me Poll Tax up.

[paultheeagle]

Did you know that according to a Joseph Rowntree Foundation report

"Around 6.1million people are classed as being in poverty despite someone going out to work. By comparison 5.1 million people live in poverty where everyone is unemployed."
Nov 2012.

And many, many unemployed people who you lot keep telling to get a job want one, but there ain't any or they don't have the proper qualifications.

There are also many more and I come into this category who are under employed...That is rather than go onto benefits do a part time work....do whatever they can to make ends meet...

Also I do more hours per week in Volunteer Work than I do in paid work, so I can show any prospective employer that I ain't a lazy sid, who wants to stay in bed all day but wants to work...My volunteering stops me from going completely barmy as well....but because of Government policy gets turned down time and time again....I have been trying now for nearly three years...a waste of time...There ain't nothing out there.

I agree with every single word you say about those who live on benefits as a life style but there ain't many like that. Instead of giving your 10% to the lazy so and so's, give your 10% to those that are doing their best to find work and get off benefits but can't.

[paultheeagle]

Ken....The gloomy scenario you so vividly paint won't happen.....Don't panic.

[Dark Knight]

PTE

it depends on your idea of what poverty really is:
if they smoke, drink, have a phone , cars etc then that is not poverty, that is being stupid with your money and spending rashly, true poverty is seen in India, Africa, South America etc, not here.
our Uk idea of poverty assumes a standard of living far far better than millions of others around the globe.
Sorry PTE but I disagree that there is anywhere near 6.1 million in poverty, things like fuel poverty, transport poverty and food poverty ,are just ways of saying some people spend more of their income on these things than others do.
real poverty would result in thousands dying , kids dying from lack of food and clean water, people living in cardboard cities and scavenging on rubbish tips to make money.
benefits are too easy to obtain and are not the saftey net they should be
over 85 billion is paid out to pensioners every year , over 5 billion paid out to youth unemployed , 20 odd billion to unemployed etc etc
so they are hardly struggling are they?

[Kendhni]

Ken....The gloomy scenario you so vividly paint won't happen.....Don't panic.

Aye, throughout the noughties they said that property prices were fine and the banks were stable as well ... Delusion oftencomes before people get bitten

[Kendhni]

DK, the problem is our definition of poverty ... It does not reflect genuine poverty ... By todays definition I was brought up in povertty, which is far from the truth ... My parents may have struggled at times, but they managed.

Generally speaking, people will achieve what tbey aspire too ... AsOnelife says, part of tbe problem is a lack of ambition (from some) or setting ones goals low ... And then failing to meet them. In the UK poverty is often self inflicted

[Dark Knight]

Ken
that is the point everyone seems to deliberately miss
poverty , real honest ,dirt poor poverty does not exist in the UK and people spending beyond thier ability to earn and relying on the state to finanace their lifestyle is morally wrong and the real root of the issue we have in the UK

[oldbluefox]

Paul, I think you will find there are more scroungers on benefit than you realise. Based on where I worked and people I know of in my home village it is pretty rife as a lifestyle. And the notion of the growth of foodbanks as an indicator of poverty is flawed. If these people can get food for free why waste money buying it? Labour's idea of handing out extra benefits in order to alleviate child poverty was also flawed. It just meant for these families there was more to spend on cigarettes, booze, drugs, mobile phones, gambling etc. It made no difference whatsoever to the children.

I have met a number of businessmen and women who have been desperately searching for people to work in their small businesses and can find no-one. They were prepared to train somebody for the jobs. They gave up going to careers evenings because there was no interest. Eventually the business has died out as they have retired and there was nobody to continue it. But why work when you can get more on benefit.

I am happy for my taxes to go to those who are out of work to support them for a while. However benefits should diminish to a level which means they are better off working than sitting on benefit. Their benefit entitlement then builds back up again the longer they are in work of one sort or another. Sitting at home doing nothing would not be an option.

[Manoverboard]

Part of the problem is that the staff in the so called ' Job Centre ' are not remotely interested in finding anybody a job ... they just put ticks in boxes.

How do I know this, well my mate works in one ... or at least he did until he was made redundant

[Boris+]

Hi DN,

I was in the hair salon today and I nearly 'blew a fuse' - the women in there decided that poverty meant kids not being able to have Playstations and designer trainers!

Thank goodness I was only in there to ask some questions and make a booking! I was glad to get out p.d.q !

Em

[Dark Knight]

Em

not what you would call on the breadline then if she can afford to go to a slon for a hair do

sadly this type of poverty is what some people thing is real poverty and it is absolute claptrap

[Onelife]

Part of the problem is that the staff in the so called ' Job Centre ' are not remotely interested in finding anybody a job ... they just put ticks in boxes.

How do I know this, well my mate works in one ... or at least he did until he was made redundant

Hi Mob

Confirms what I was saying about apathy...it becomes contagious and also brings down those who work in that environment. I’m sure it would be a completely different story if there were enough jobs to go around but there aint so the cycle of ticking boxes will continue for some time to come I’m afraid.

In all honesty plebs like me don’t really understand the complexities of what is required to balance the Uk economy/recovery but what I do know is that this task would be made a whole lot easier if they didn’t keep making catastrophic, ill though out policies which when scrutinised are found to be unworkable.

Regards

Keith