Brexit

[towny44]

I see that the mayor of the Calais, Boulogne , Dunkirk region says a no deal will be easy to handle if both sides use common sense, finally a European official with a modicum of intelligence.

I don't think the headless chickens in the Remain camp will want to hear that. Did he make no mention of 'crashing out'?

You are right, I don't want to hear that from John. Because either he still has no idea of what the E.U. is or he is being disingenuous.

I would trust Johns statement is correct (no link to see), I assume he means Xavier Bertrand, who has also said
"I cannot begin to imagine there not being a deal between the U.K and the E.U.".
Secondly Bertrand is a European, he is also an official. The implied suggestion Bertrand is an E.U. official is, er, 'misleading'.

There was no intent to imply that he was an EU official, only someone with a closed mind against someone else's brexit views would be likely to suggest such a thing.

[Jack Staff]

.... only someone with a closed mind against someone else's brexit views would be likely to suggest such a thing.

Forgive me John, but you have me at a disadvantage there.
You obviously understand the Remain option as we have lived it over previous decades, granted not everything has been rosey and the vote has highlighted many faults in Britain today. Mostly, but not all, the fault of British government(s).
Simple so far.
You are correct, I do have a problem with your Brexit views. It is not a closed mind, more like just overloaded.
Are your Brexit views..
No deal
Crash out no deal
Managed no deal
May's' deal
Canada +++
Norway +++
Switzerland
Jobs first
Red white and blue

As soon as any 'Brexit' is written down, it fails to stand up to scrutiny and found not to work, also once on paper it loses half its' supporters.
So help me out, what type of Brexiter are you?

[towny44]

Jack, I want to leave the EU because the new federal version no longer offers me the main reason for y support in joining its free trade version.
So I want a brexit that frees me from all the EU bureaucracy but still offers me a good free trade deal, and before you say that was never available, of course it was if only the EU had not decided to play hard ball. It should have been an easy task since we conform to all their regulations now, and as far as export goods are concerned we would probably have been willing to remain so and even take into account new ones if needed.
But if we don't get Mays deal then I think maybe no deal, since I still they will blink first, or at least the German exporters will, who after all are the only thing keeping the EU afloat once we leave.

[Jack Staff]

Jack, I want to leave the EU because the new federal version no longer offers me the main reason for y support in joining its free trade version.
So I want a brexit that frees me from all the EU bureaucracy but still offers me a good free trade deal, and before you say that was never available, of course it was if only the EU had not decided to play hard ball. It should have been an easy task since we conform to all their regulations now, and as far as export goods are concerned we would probably have been willing to remain so and even take into account new ones if needed.
But if we don't get Mays deal then I think maybe no deal, since I still they will blink first, or at least the German exporters will, who after all are the only thing keeping the EU afloat once we leave.

Thank you John, I think I finally have an insight into the Brexit mind.
I don't have a problem with the federal idea, except that is only going to happen in Brexit propaganda.
Lets face it the Scots and Welsh have (sort of) lived with it for years, and we all know they are not best pleased.
I can understand you wouldn't want to be 'the Scotsman' of Europe - or perhaps Britain being the Welsh of Germany.
Neither would I.
The difference being the EU is not controlled by Germany in the same way Britain is controlled by England. The EU can not be dominated in this way. The system is not perfect however and Britain currently has a much bigger influence than perhaps it should.

Bureaucracy is the curse of any organisation, but is obviously a necessary evil. The EU means their is just one lot of it across about 600 million people. By leaving and to trade successfully we will have to duplicate it. Even if we simply don't trade, we still need the same laws against lead in paint, asbestos, whatever.

If Germany was the only thing keeping the EU afloat, surely we would have had Gerexit by now?

[towny44]

Jack, I want to leave the EU because the new federal version no longer offers me the main reason for y support in joining its free trade version.
So I want a brexit that frees me from all the EU bureaucracy but still offers me a good free trade deal, and before you say that was never available, of course it was if only the EU had not decided to play hard ball. It should have been an easy task since we conform to all their regulations now, and as far as export goods are concerned we would probably have been willing to remain so and even take into account new ones if needed.
But if we don't get Mays deal then I think maybe no deal, since I still they will blink first, or at least the German exporters will, who after all are the only thing keeping the EU afloat once we leave.

Thank you John, I think I finally have an insight into the Brexit mind.
I don't have a problem with the federal idea, except that is only going to happen in Brexit propaganda.
Lets face it the Scots and Welsh have (sort of) lived with it for years, and we all know they are not best pleased.
I can understand you wouldn't want to be 'the Scotsman' of Europe - or perhaps Britain being the Welsh of Germany.
Neither would I.
The difference being the EU is not controlled by Germany in the same way Britain is controlled by England. The EU can not be dominated in this way. The system is not perfect however and Britain currently has a much bigger influence than perhaps it should.

Bureaucracy is the curse of any organisation, but is obviously a necessary evil. The EU means their is just one lot of it across about 600 million people. By leaving and to trade successfully we will have to duplicate it. Even if we simply don't trade, we still need the same laws against lead in paint, asbestos, whatever.

If Germany was the only thing keeping the EU afloat, surely we would have had Gerexit by now?

We should have Jack but I think that because of their fear of their military and political past, they like the feeling of security that being in the EU gives them, whereas we Brits know we have nothing to fear from our political history and prefer freedom.

[Gill W]

We should have Jack but I think that because of their fear of their military and political past, they like the feeling of security that being in the EU gives them, whereas we Brits know we have nothing to fear from our political history and prefer freedom.

Blimey, there's loads of things in our political history that don't bear scrutiny.

As you brought up history, I think a lot of the Brexit thing is a vague memory of Empire, when a large portion of the globe was red, and we ruled a quarter of the world. We are a small country, but we still punch above our weight. However, leaving the EU isn't going to put us back amongst the super powers of Russia, USA and China. We will lose world influence, as we desperately try to sort out the mess of Brexit (particularly a no deal Brexit). it's going to drag on for years.

If Germany like the feeling of security that being in the EU gives them, I'm not sure what's wrong with that. When you consider there's Putin in the Easr, Trump going rogue in the west and China flexing its muscles, the world is a dangerous place. It seems far more sensible to be part of a strong group to defend themselves, rather than being a small nation standing alone.

I've never quite got my head around this idea that we are apparantly weak and feeble in the EU, but outside we are are suddenly going to be world leaders again.

Incidently, Towny, we never found out what hell the EU causes in your daily life, that will make April seem like a paradise in comparison !

[Gill W]

The most recent joyful news from Sky

Stockpiling of food at military bases overseas

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-begins-st ... t-11617564

Brexit planners could use martial law against civil disobedience.

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-plann ... e-11619088

The two extremes are to believe every word, or at the other end of the scale to stick your head on a dark place where the sun doesn't shine whilst loudly shouting 'Project Fear'.

I prefer the middle ground - there's enough negative reports to make me consider that something major is on its way, and it's probably going to be rather unpleasant.

[towny44]

I've never quite got my head around this idea that we are apparantly weak and feeble in the EU, but outside we are are suddenly going to be world leaders again.

Incidently, Towny, we never found out what hell the EU causes in your daily life, that will make April seem like a paradise in comparison !

Gill, I have no hankerings for the days of empire, and I don't feel the need to be a big league player, and I am quite happy for NATO to keep me safe from Putin and the Chinese, and I have never compared our standing or influence in or out of the EU, but as long as we are the 2nd largest contributor to NATO someone must think we are an important for somewhere.
As regards my dislike of the EU I have tried to make this clear to the remainers on here, but their views of federalism, the economic stupidity of a one size fits all currency, and the resultant mess it is making of youth unemployment throughout the med. region, appears to be light years different to time, and all this before we consider our nett contributions and our subjugation to the ECJ.
But unlike most remainers I respect your right to hold your views but am deeply concerned that you feel so unwilling to respect mine.

[Manoverboard]

Well Towny … surely you can appreciate that if Jack converts you to his way of thinking he will have scored a major victory and that he will then have only another seventeen and a half million tainted souls to go before he can languish in the arms of Mother EU.

[Jack Staff]

Well Towny … surely you can appreciate that if Jack converts you to his way of thinking he will have scored a major victory and that he will then have only another seventeen and a half million tainted souls to go before he can languish in the arms of Mother EU.

Luckily I don't have to convert anybody. The mood has changed.
Most people now just want this nightmare to be over.
It is now clear if we exit 'no deal' things just get worse.
If we exit with a deal, the torment of Brexit goes on for up to another 10 years negotiating.

There is an easy way out. Revoke Article 50.

[david63]

Anyone else notice the "fake" news the other day that P&O had re-registered all their ships because of Brexit. The story would have been right if they had used the correct company - P&O Ferries!!

[Jack Staff]

Anyone else notice the "fake" news the other day that P&O had re-registered all their ships because of Brexit. The story would have been right if they had used the correct company - P&O Ferries!!

I think you will find I reported it correctly though...

P&O Ferries to register entire English Channel fleet under Cyprus flag.
Wonder why?
https://cyprus-mail.com/2019/01/18/po-f ... prus-flag/

[david63]

I think you will find I reported it correctly though..

Never suggested that you didn't - it was the Beeb!

[Mervyn and Trish]

Anyone else notice the "fake" news the other day that P&O had re-registered all their ships because of Brexit. The story would have been right if they had used the correct company - P&O Ferries!!

I think you will find I reported it correctly though...

P&O Ferries to register entire English Channel fleet under Cyprus flag.
Wonder why?
https://cyprus-mail.com/2019/01/18/po-f ... prus-flag/

And I think you will find that I also reported that P&O cruises reregisted their fleet at the time in Bermuda and that had nothing to do with Brexit. Shipping lines register their fleets in different places for different places all the time. Who knows, once we're free of the EU they might all decide to register in the UK?

Brexit is currently taking up loads of Parliamentary time at the cost of all else but let's not assume it is the only thing influencing every aspect of life in the UK.

[Mervyn and Trish]

And to add, Jack, your link to the Cyprus Mail, takes us to an article with a picture of Ventura. With that kind of schoolboy error I have little faith in their journalism or therefore the accuracy of any other "facts" in the article.

[Jack Staff]

And to add, Jack, your link to the Cyprus Mail, takes us to an article with a picture of Ventura. With that kind of schoolboy error I have little faith in their journalism or therefore the accuracy of any other "facts" in the article.

There are none so blind...

[Onelife]

The most recent joyful news from Sky

Stockpiling of food at military bases overseas

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-begins-st ... t-11617564

Brexit planners could use martial law against civil disobedience.

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-plann ... e-11619088

The two extremes are to believe every word, or at the other end of the scale to stick your head on a dark place where the sun doesn't shine whilst loudly shouting 'Project Fear'.

I prefer the middle ground - there's enough negative reports to make me consider that something major is on its way, and it's probably going to be rather unpleasant.

Hi Gill,

One thing is for sure we won't be caught short when it comes to dealing with civil disobedience....we've already witnessed one of the biggest acts of civil disobedience when a load of remoaning 'londoners' took to the streets to protest against the democratic will of the people...right?

I can assure you that if there is civil (Bloody) disobedience it will be short lived.... I say this because the majority across the country who put their trust in parliament to deliver on their promise will in fact slump into a prolonged political apathy of...why bother?...Yes there will be a few thousand far right protesters kicking in a few doors but the majority of Brexiteers will take the attatude that democracy is dead and will probably never vote again....how sad would that be for our country?...a country that portrays it's self as a shinning example of how democracy is supposed to work.....not anymore it isn't.

I fully expect Theresa to succeed in getting her deal through parliament but in the event that the saboteurs (Cooper, Corbyn & co) get an amendment that dilutes her negotiationing position then we should prepare ourselves for the worst posible outcome for our country...which as you know will be a compromise that leaves us worse off than had we stayed in the prison.

Regards

Keith

[Gill W]

As regards my dislike of the EU I have tried to make this clear to the remainers on here, but their views of federalism, the economic stupidity of a one size fits all currency, and the resultant mess it is making of youth unemployment throughout the med. region, appears to be light years different to time, and all this before we consider our nett contributions and our subjugation to the ECJ.
But unlike most remainers I respect your right to hold your views but am deeply concerned that you feel so unwilling to respect mine.

There's about 3 or 4 Remainers on here that post.

As far as I've seen, no Remainers are federalists, none have particularly promoted the Euro ( I certainly haven't ) and none have made a point of discussing youth employment in the Med.

However, out of all the money the UK spends each year, a suprisingly small amount is spent on the EU. In 2017, our net contribution to the EU was £9 billion https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-memb ... 5-million/ Compare that to what we spend on Pensions, Health or Education. I don't feel subjugated to the ECJ - to be honest, I barely think about them

I have no problem with anybody holding different views to me - and that includes you. Please could you point to what I said that indicated that I do not respect your views? Thanks

[Gill W]

Hi Gill,

One thing is for sure we won't be caught short when it comes to dealing with civil disobedience....we've already witnessed one of the biggest acts of civil disobedience when a load of remoaning 'londoners' took to the streets to protest against the democratic will of the people...right?

I can assure you that if there is civil (Bloody) disobedience it will be short lived.... I say this because the majority across the country who put their trust in parliament to deliver on their promise will in fact slump into a prolonged political apathy of...why bother?...Yes there will be a few thousand far right protesters kicking in a few doors but the majority of Brexiteers will take the attatude that democracy is dead and will probably never vote again....how sad would that be for our country?...a country that portrays it's self as a shinning example of how democracy is supposed to work.....not anymore it isn't.

I fully expect Theresa to succeed in getting her deal through parliament but in the event that the saboteurs (Cooper, Corbyn & co) get an amendment that dilutes her negotiationing position then we should prepare ourselves for the worst posible outcome for our country...which as you know will be a compromise that leaves us worse off than had we stayed in the prison.

Regards

Keith

Last time I looked, we have the right to freedom of assembly - as long as we inform the police that we are doing so and follow their instructions, if appropriate.

The march in October involved no civil disobedience at all, it was done perfectly legally, and I understand there were no arrests.

Compare and contrast to when you get a few Brexity yellow vests together in the same place.


I don't know why you include Corbyn in the role of 'saboteur'. He's on your side.

I think it's possible the May will get her deal through Parliament, if the backstop is removed. Problem being of course, that the EU insist there must be a backstop. And round and round we go.

At least Cooper is trying to stop a no deal Brexit - which would leave us worse off out of all the options.

PS, I've noted that you, along with several Brexiters on this forum still insist on using emotive terms such as saboteur. It just makes you sound perpetually angry. It must be exhausting to have been so angry for three years!

[Mervyn and Trish]

And to add, Jack, your link to the Cyprus Mail, takes us to an article with a picture of Ventura. With that kind of schoolboy error I have little faith in their journalism or therefore the accuracy of any other "facts" in the article.

There are none so blind...

.........as those who don't research their journalism properly.

[david63]

I don't know why you include Corbyn in the role of 'saboteur'.

How about passing a motion at the Labour party conference to reject the deal before anyone knew what the deal was?

[Jack Staff]

.........as those who don't research their journalism properly.

That's what confuses me Merv, for someone who is so adept at researching journalism, how did you fall for all the Brexit lies?

[Mervyn and Trish]

There's about 3 or 4 Remainers on here that post.

As far as I've seen, no Remainers are federalists...

I agree with you Gill. But this is a bit pot/kettle/black. A few posts back you were suggesting that a lot of Brexit is about wanting to go back to the days of the Empire. I certainly don't want to be in charge of half the world and I've seen no indication from the other pro-Brexit posters on here that they do either. I just want to be in charge of our own country.

So sure. We should not assume what's in the minds of Remainers, but you should be careful of being guilty of the same thing.

My biggest gripe with the whole Remain stance is just that. There is a constant assumption they know why we voted the way we did and they are usually wrong. In fact if you look at Jack's post above he does it again.

It was Call Me Dave misjudging the Leave mindset that got us into this mess by failing to explain to the EU how serious we were and then running a disastrously flawed Remain campaign that utterly failed to address Leave concerns. As I've repeated before I really wanted to be convinced to vote Remain and he blew it.

..... and none have made a point of discussing youth employment in the Med.

No of course they haven't. Because it is one of the biggest single failings of the EU and is best swept under the carpet in trying to convince us how wonderful it is.

[Mervyn and Trish]

.........as those who don't research their journalism properly.

That's what confuses me Merv, for someone who is so adept at researching journalism, how did you fall for all the Brexit lies?

I didn't fall for any lies Jack. The reasons I wanted to leave the EU remain valid.

And as I've said to Gill above, and repeatedly before, it was the Remain campaign that convinced me to vote Leave, not anything Boris and Co said.

[Gill W]

I don't know why you include Corbyn in the role of 'saboteur'.

How about passing a motion at the Labour party conference to reject the deal before anyone knew what the deal was?

Whatever may or may not have happened at the conference - I'm convinced that Corbyn himself is a Leaver