Brexit

[barney]

Where are all of the Stop Brexit folk who are normally encamped outside Parliament? Avoiding confrontation with the Leave contingent?

Yes. The usual protest was called off earlier in the week. It's a nasty crowd gathering there today, who don't need an excuse to kick off.

I see Tommy Robinson is amongst the speakers.

I did tell you about the rise of the far right. I fear we ain't seen nothing yet. You cannot overturn democracy and expect no reaction. What has happened is unprecedented. Politics will never be the same again.

[Jack Staff]

I did tell you about the rise of the far right. I fear we ain't seen nothing yet.

Brexit has empowered them. Whatever they try and pull now we must stop them, as we have done before.

You cannot overturn democracy and expect no reaction.

Forcing through the result of a flawed opinion poll has consequences.

What has happened is unprecedented. Politics will never be the same again.

Thank goodness.
FPTP has to go.
Now we have UKIP, Farage's party (don't even know what it's called), Change, and the rest, we have to have PR.

[Jack Staff]

Hoping that no one would notice in all the events of today Vote Leave has quietly dropped its appeal against the Electoral Commission and paid it's £61,000 fine.

As charged.

[barney]

As if that is actually important. The democratic system in this country is in tatters and you gloat about some no mark getting caught with his pants down. Can you imagine any party workers risking door knocking in the future?

[towny44]

Hoping that no one would notice in all the events of today Vote Leave has quietly dropped its appeal against the Electoral Commission and paid it's £61,000 fine.

As charged.

Jack, I imagine if you looked hard enough you could find lots of palm greasing going on in euroland as well, politics is riddled with self serving ne'er do wells. I am more concerned that our bunch not only have their fingers in the cookie jar, but they are useless at their job as well. Probably the EU are thinking good riddance, and its very likely they will refuse any request we make for an extension. If that happens I wonder if TM will invoke the nuclear option and revoke article 50, or will she allow us to crash out?
What a legacy!!!!

[Jack Staff]

As if that is actually important. The democratic system in this country is in tatters and you gloat about some no mark getting caught with his pants down. Can you imagine any party workers risking door knocking in the future?

No Barney, I am not gloating. I don't think you have grasped the significance of this, or the timing.
Up until now those involved have refused to talk about it because it was all subject to appeal.
Journo's have been waiting for this.
Now they have admitted their guilt. Today, of all days. They know the (Brexit) game's up.
While the board will be specifically targeted (interesting list) other names on the campaign committee include:
Michael Gove (Co-Convener),
Boris Johnson,
Steve Baker,
Iain Duncan Smith,
Liam Fox,
Chris Grayling,
Andrea Leadsom,
Priti Patel,
Dominic Raab,
John Whittingdale,

Hardly 'no marks'. This may well not be good for their future careers.

The democratic system is not in tatters, just taking its' time to catch up with the modern world.

[barney]

Only in the eyes of a remainer can this seem important. The BBC reported that they dropped the appeal because they ran out of money to fight it. It's irrelevant to the current discussion anyway. Parliament overturning a democratic vote is the story. They will see the backlash at the ballot box. I'd expect we will see literally hundreds of new MPs after the next GE. Grieve is the first of many on both sides.

[david63]

In the "real world" you do as your employer tells you, whether you like it and/or agree with it or not - if you don't you have two choices, you either get sacked or you find alternative employment.

Not seen any MPs leaving the "gravy train"

[Gill W]

Only in the eyes of a remainer can this seem important. The BBC reported that they dropped the appeal because they ran out of money to fight it. It's irrelevant to the current discussion anyway. Parliament overturning a democratic vote is the story. They will see the backlash at the ballot box. I'd expect we will see literally hundreds of new MPs after the next GE. Grieve is the first of many on both sides.

Breaking the law is not important?

That’s astonishing, even from you.

[barney]

Thank you

[towny44]

Only in the eyes of a remainer can this seem important. The BBC reported that they dropped the appeal because they ran out of money to fight it. It's irrelevant to the current discussion anyway. Parliament overturning a democratic vote is the story. They will see the backlash at the ballot box. I'd expect we will see literally hundreds of new MPs after the next GE. Grieve is the first of many on both sides.

Breaking the law is not important?

That’s astonishing, even from you.

Since even the electoral commission seem clueless as to just what constitutes "breaking the law" on election spending, maybe its time to declare either open house on spending or ban it all together and only allow limited free party political broadcasts on freeview TV.

[Manoverboard]

And so it came to pass that the self seeking saboteurs will have their opportunity to try to conjure up an alternative Master Plan on Monday.

Two points …

1. They will probably be voted down as per everything else that has been presented in good faith, or otherwise.

2. It's April Fools day, which is oh so befitting

ps … the eleventh hour, if there is to be one, will be on April 10th when the EU will reluctantly agree to add an addendum to facilitate an escape from the ' backstop ' position, this being preferable to us leaving with ' No Deal ' … that being the default position at the moment.

[barney]

The Irish papers are saying that it is not going to Varadkars plan. We were supposed to have rolled over by now. No deal is a disaster for them. Maybe Moby has a point. It takes just one sentence.

[Jack Staff]

Only in the eyes of a remainer can this seem important.

"Today I have with me one of the two remaining candidates in the leadership race. Tell me, what do you think of your rival?"

"Well {name from list in #5681} has been a superior Minister/MP for blah, blah, doing a sterling job for the blah blah, ...and a close personal friend, blah blah, but we have seen blah blah and there are the questions over their involvement in Vote Leave."

"Thank you Mr. Hunt".

[Ray Scully]

And so it came to pass that the self seeking saboteurs will have their opportunity to try to conjure up an alternative Master Plan on Monday.

Two points …

1. They will probably be voted down as per everything else that has been presented in good faith, or otherwise.

2. It's April Fools day, which is oh so befitting

ps … the eleventh hour, if there is to be one, will be on April 10th when the EU will reluctantly agree to add an addendum to facilitate an escape from the ' backstop ' position, this being preferable to us leaving with ' No Deal ' … that being the default position at the moment.

Not going to happen Moby A UK continuing with virtually the same trading terms as the rest of the members but also the ability to forge (undercut) new relationships would do far more harm to the EU than us crashing out, and then picking up the pieces on their times. We never had or will never have the best hand.

[barney]

Many are not even concerned about a best hand Ray. They just want us to disassociate ourselves from a political alliance that we never voted to join in the first place. Millions just no longer want to be part of the EU. That is no less rational than Scots wanting independence.

[Manoverboard]

And so it came to pass that the self seeking saboteurs will have their opportunity to try to conjure up an alternative Master Plan on Monday.

Two points …

1. They will probably be voted down as per everything else that has been presented in good faith, or otherwise.

2. It's April Fools day, which is oh so befitting

ps … the eleventh hour, if there is to be one, will be on April 10th when the EU will reluctantly agree to add an addendum to facilitate an escape from the ' backstop ' position, this being preferable to us leaving with ' No Deal ' … that being the default position at the moment.

Not going to happen Moby A UK continuing with virtually the same trading terms as the rest of the members but also the ability to forge (undercut) new relationships would do far more harm to the EU than us crashing out, and then picking up the pieces on their times. We never had or will never have the best hand.

It should be possible for us to undercut the inefficient parts of the EU and to benefit from that but there is no way that we could hive off enough of their manufacturing base to make much of an impact on the total as a whole.

[Jack Staff]

Many are not even concerned about a best hand Ray. They just want us to disassociate ourselves from a political alliance that we never voted to join in the first place. Millions just no longer want to be part of the EU. That is no less rational than Scots wanting independence.

The Scots want independence from Brexiters.

[barney]

Rewriting history again Jack. Actually, if was Scottish I'd be SNP. For sure.

[towny44]

Many are not even concerned about a best hand Ray. They just want us to disassociate ourselves from a political alliance that we never voted to join in the first place. Millions just no longer want to be part of the EU. That is no less rational than Scots wanting independence.

The Scots want independence from Brexiters.

They had been talking about independence long before Brexit raised its head. In fact if you look around the world there are far more examples of countries breaking up into smaller units, than trying to form bigger groupings. Its the way of the human spirit to want more control of their own destiny, rather than delegate it to a larger amorphous mess mass.

[Jack Staff]

In 2014 the Scots voted No to independence from the UK, and the EU, as membership of the EU was part of the campaigns.

If we do leave, the Scots will likely be back in before England. Which with their veto, could make our terms of rejoining, interesting.

[Ray Scully]

Many are not even concerned about a best hand Ray. They just want us to disassociate ourselves from a political alliance that we never voted to join in the first place. Millions just no longer want to be part of the EU. That is no less rational than Scots wanting independence.

Barney, I can fully understand that, but now as the costs and benefits of any decision are apparent, surely they should be put to the people, possibly via a forum without political bias (Royal Commission) allowing us for the first time to make an informed decision devoid of the widespread lies and spin from both sides.

[barney]

That makes sense Ray but issues like this tend to be immotive as opposed to logical. It's a bit like buying a house. If it feels right, you'll do it. It's worth thought though.

[david63]

Looks like the "long knives" are starting to get sharpened - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-b ... s-47759208

[Jack Staff]

The Tories are not even trying to hide their descent into Blukip.