Brexit

[barney]

Remainers have used this argument since day one John.
I went to see Cameron speak in Dover, pre ref, and he was very, very specific about the 'consequences'

No single market, no customs union.

There is plenty of coverage of others saying exactly the same but it has been conveniently forgotten.

Marr played back John Major's speech to him on Sunday morning and his retort was, the circumstances have changed.
The only thing that has changed is the expected result.

So, we must now all accept that leave voters are thick, stupid, racist, xenophobes who clearly didn't understand what they were voting for.

Meanwhile, remain voters who fell hook, line and sinker for Project Fear, (and still are) are articulate geniuses who obviously know better.

Quotes from immediately before the 2016 referendum.

David Cameron: “The job you do, the home you live in are at risk. The shock to our economy after voting to leave Europe would tip the country into recession.”

George Osborne: “A vote to leave would tip our economy into year-long recession with at least 500,000 UK jobs lost”

Treasury: “UK economy would fall into recession”, predicted 2016 Q3 growth between -0.1% and -1%

IMF: “Brexit would trigger recession”, predicted -0.3% GDP for Q3

Bank of England: Mark Carney said “It would be likely to have a negative impact in the short term… I certainly think that would increase the risk of recession.”

OECD: Short term impact of -1.25% GDP

Inconvenient facts

[Stephen]

Just saw on the local news video footage of the paras out in Afghanistan use a picture of Jeremy Corbin for target practice

As usual the bleedin heart club are up in arms....scuse the pun

[Jack Staff]

I know Jack ....

Even I will admit to a little chuckle at that one.

[screwy]

But why just a picture.? Ooops.

[anniec]

I know Jack ....

Even I will admit to a little chuckle at that one.

We all need a little levity in these trying times so I shall keep you updated with the thoughts of Ms Hartley-Brewer.

[towny44]

https://speakola.com/political/oliver-c ... EUym69s2L8

I thought this might be appropriate with a bit of updating.

[Onelife]

Well we’ll see how corrupted parliament has become when the farce of a bill that was passed last night goes forward to the House of Lords. If there is any constitutional integrity left in parliament then this bill will go through the scrutiny and procedures it should have go through yesterday…see below

• Frst reading (Commons)
• Second reading (Commons)
• Committee stage (Commons)
• Report stage (Commons)
• Third reading (Commons)

………
• First reading (Lords)
• Second reading (Lords)
• Committee stage (Lords)
• Report stage (Lords)
• Third reading (Lords)
• Consideration of amendments
• Royal Assent

[david63]

Unless I have missed something along the way this Bill is meaningless as all it means is that by law the PM has to "ask" the EU for an extension and if they say no then that is the end of it.

Do these MPs not realise that keep extending Brexit is playing into the hands of the EU - the longer we are in the more of our money they will get.

The answer is simple TM should tell Barnier et al that unless they remove the backstop from the WA by the end of next week we walk away with no deal and the EU do not get another penny off us. Job solved.

[CaroleF]

Interesting that a vote last night in the Commons was won by 1 vote - no argument there that it was such a narrow margin that they should re-think and vote again!

[Onelife]

Unless I have missed something along the way this Bill is meaningless as all it means is that by law the PM has to "ask" the EU for an extension and if they say no then that is the end of it.

Yes’, you are right David, it is the EU who decide whether or not to grant an extension but as I understand it, it will be the Saboteurs who stipulate how long that extension request will be … if Cooper gets her way is will be indefinite.

Do these MPs not realise that keep extending Brexit is playing into the hands of the EU - the longer we are in the more of our money they will get.

The answer is simple TM should tell Barnier et al that unless they remove the backstop from the WA by the end of next week we walk away with no deal and the EU do not get another penny off us. Job solved.

[oldbluefox]

Interesting that a vote last night in the Commons was won by 1 vote - no argument there that it was such a narrow margin that they should re-think and vote again!

....... or they didn't know what they were voting for and could change their minds.
The EU could always say they are fed up with the UK Parliament, turn down the request and tell us the deal is off and we leave with no deal. Parliament is a disgrace as they all argue for their own ends.

[oldbluefox]

PM.jpg

[Gill W]

Interesting that a vote last night in the Commons was won by 1 vote - no argument there that it was such a narrow margin that they should re-think and vote again!

Although Mark Francois was apoplectic with rage about it. I thought he was going to spontaneously combust !

[Gill W]

Unless I have missed something along the way this Bill is meaningless as all it means is that by law the PM has to "ask" the EU for an extension and if they say no then that is the end of it.

Do these MPs not realise that keep extending Brexit is playing into the hands of the EU - the longer we are in the more of our money they will get.

The answer is simple TM should tell Barnier et al that unless they remove the backstop from the WA by the end of next week we walk away with no deal and the EU do not get another penny off us. Job solved.

They've already said that any trade deal would be subject to us paying the divorce bill. So if we did what you suggest we'd wave goodbye to any chance of a trade trade deal with the massive trading block on our doorstep. It'd be like shooting ourselves in the head - twice.

[Stephen]

Unless I have missed something along the way this Bill is meaningless as all it means is that by law the PM has to "ask" the EU for an extension and if they say no then that is the end of it.

Do these MPs not realise that keep extending Brexit is playing into the hands of the EU - the longer we are in the more of our money they will get.

The answer is simple TM should tell Barnier et al that unless they remove the backstop from the WA by the end of next week we walk away with no deal and the EU do not get another penny off us. Job solved.

Gets my vote

[barney]

Unless I have missed something along the way this Bill is meaningless as all it means is that by law the PM has to "ask" the EU for an extension and if they say no then that is the end of it.

Do these MPs not realise that keep extending Brexit is playing into the hands of the EU - the longer we are in the more of our money they will get.

The answer is simple TM should tell Barnier et al that unless they remove the backstop from the WA by the end of next week we walk away with no deal and the EU do not get another penny off us. Job solved.

They've already said that any trade deal would be subject to us paying the divorce bill. So if we did what you suggest we'd wave goodbye to any chance of a trade trade deal with the massive trading block on our doorstep. It'd be like shooting ourselves in the head - twice.

Seriously? Have you not been keeping up with the state of the Eurozone economy? Maybe watch Blloomberg instead of the BBC

[Onelife]

Unless I have missed something along the way this Bill is meaningless as all it means is that by law the PM has to "ask" the EU for an extension and if they say no then that is the end of it.

Do these MPs not realise that keep extending Brexit is playing into the hands of the EU - the longer we are in the more of our money they will get.

The answer is simple TM should tell Barnier et al that unless they remove the backstop from the WA by the end of next week we walk away with no deal and the EU do not get another penny off us. Job solved.

They've already said that any trade deal would be subject to us paying the divorce bill. So if we did what you suggest we'd wave goodbye to any chance of a trade trade deal with the massive trading block on our doorstep. It'd be like shooting ourselves in the head - twice.

A divorce bill of 19 billion equates to a saving of 20 billion should we walk away.

[david63]

They've already said that any trade deal would be subject to us paying the divorce bill. So if we did what you suggest we'd wave goodbye to any chance of a trade trade deal with the massive trading block on our doorstep.

What they may have said and what actually happens are two totally different things - especially where the EU is concerned.

Do you seriously believe that we would not have a trade deal with the EU - OK it may take longer and they would try to play hard ball again but we would get one.

With the £39 billion in the bank plus another £150 million a week that we would be saving it would provide a cushion for the short term.

[towny44]

Unless I have missed something along the way this Bill is meaningless as all it means is that by law the PM has to "ask" the EU for an extension and if they say no then that is the end of it.

Do these MPs not realise that keep extending Brexit is playing into the hands of the EU - the longer we are in the more of our money they will get.

The answer is simple TM should tell Barnier et al that unless they remove the backstop from the WA by the end of next week we walk away with no deal and the EU do not get another penny off us. Job solved.

They've already said that any trade deal would be subject to us paying the divorce bill. So if we did what you suggest we'd wave goodbye to any chance of a trade trade deal with the massive trading block on our doorstep. It'd be like shooting ourselves in the head - twice.

Yes I had noted that comment from Tusk I think, and I guess the UK might be bankrupt first if it came to a game of chicken in any trade discussions.
Reluctantly I think I might be joining Jack and Gill and opting to revoke A50.
The current TM deal has been watered down further than I had wanted, so any more concessions to get Labour to back TM's deal just leaves us the same as being in the EU but without any involvement in its future direction.
My view now is we would be better staying in and being as obstructive as we can be on any further moves away from the original common market trading organisation, and I will be voting for Nigel Farages Brexit party in the EU elections.

[anniec]

Interesting that a vote last night in the Commons was won by 1 vote - no argument there that it was such a narrow margin that they should re-think and vote again!

I wondered exactly the same thing, Carole.

[anniec]

....... or they didn't know what they were voting for and could change their minds.
The EU could always say they are fed up with the UK Parliament, turn down the request and tell us the deal is off and we leave with no deal. Parliament is a disgrace as they all argue for their own ends.

From everything I've read (and, apart from Julia Hartley-Brewer, everything I read is written by independent journalists, e.g. Laura Kuenssberg, Beth Rigby), the EU has no wish to appear to be responsible for a no-deal Brexit, so will keep agreeing to our increasingly mad requests.

[anniec]

Although Mark Francois was apoplectic with rage about it. I thought he was going to spontaneously combust !

So did I. This whole business is bringing some very odd people out of the woodwork. On both sides.

[david63]

everything I read is written by independent journalists, e.g. Laura Kuenssberg, Beth Rigby),

I am not sure that I would class Laura Kuenssberg as "independent"

[Stephen]

everything I read is written by independent journalists, e.g. Laura Kuenssberg, Beth Rigby),

I am not sure that I would class Laura Kuenssberg as "independent"

BBC news editor yes.

[Gill W]

Remainers have used this argument since day one John.
I went to see Cameron speak in Dover, pre ref, and he was very, very specific about the 'consequences'

No single market, no customs union.

There is plenty of coverage of others saying exactly the same but it has been conveniently forgotten.

Marr played back John Major's speech to him on Sunday morning and his retort was, the circumstances have changed.
The only thing that has changed is the expected result.

So, we must now all accept that leave voters are thick, stupid, racist, xenophobes who clearly didn't understand what they were voting for.

Meanwhile, remain voters who fell hook, line and sinker for Project Fear, (and still are) are articulate geniuses who obviously know better.

Quotes from immediately before the 2016 referendum.

David Cameron: “The job you do, the home you live in are at risk. The shock to our economy after voting to leave Europe would tip the country into recession.”

George Osborne: “A vote to leave would tip our economy into year-long recession with at least 500,000 UK jobs lost”

Treasury: “UK economy would fall into recession”, predicted 2016 Q3 growth between -0.1% and -1%

IMF: “Brexit would trigger recession”, predicted -0.3% GDP for Q3

Bank of England: Mark Carney said “It would be likely to have a negative impact in the short term… I certainly think that would increase the risk of recession.”

OECD: Short term impact of -1.25% GDP

Inconvenient facts

Here;s some more inconvenient facts for you.

A long Twitter thread from @EmporersNewC giving a thorough recreation of how the options were presented at the time of the referendum https://twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status ... 3300842497