Brexit

[oldbluefox]

I wonder what consideration the Remainers would have given the Leavers had the result of the referendum been reversed?

[oldbluefox]

Isn't the weather cold for this time of year

Stephen...we;ve just had haiuls stones the size of Rams balls round here..

You been sheep bothering again?

[Onelife]

I've just heard on the news that the EU are likely to welcome intensive talks on how to avoid the backstop

[towny44]

I've just heard on the news that the EU are likely to welcome intensive talks on how to avoid the backstop

If they think talks might resolve the issue, why on Earth have they not proposed them before?

[Onelife]

Isn't the weather cold for this time of year

Stephen...we;ve just had haiuls stones the size of Rams balls round here..

You been sheep bothering again?

Its been repoirted that it is happening a lot round the Shropshire Hill...btw.. I love it here they're all so friendly

[Onelife]

I've just heard on the news that the EU are likely to welcome intensive talks on how to avoid the backstop

If they think talks might resolve the issue, why on Earth have they not proposed them before?

It could be the eleventh-hour awakening drawing nearer?

[Manoverboard]

I've just heard on the news that the EU are likely to welcome intensive talks on how to avoid the backstop

If they think talks might resolve the issue, why on Earth have they not proposed them before?

It could be the eleventh-hour awakening drawing nearer?

I still think so … the path being cleared as a consequence of Mrs M making her fact finding visit to Ireland me thinks.



ps … apart from the neck end we won't be eating lamb any more


.

[Stephen]

Could now be a delay until June.........not sure which year though

[barney]

I think that all of us who supported leaving the EU now have to concede defeat.

The choice is now, leave but really remain, or, remain

The Brexit that I, and many others voted for is no longer on the table.

The MPs have clearly over ruled the democratic decision of the voters in 2016, which ever way they like to dress it up.

They have absolutely dragged this country into the gutter.

Up to now, I had always thought that my country was democratic and unlike other European countries that have been brow beaten into changing their minds, the UK would be different.

Obviously, I was mistaken.

Democracy as we know it in the UK is over, for ever.

Yesterday, there was a byelection in Wales. It was for a Labour safe seat.
The turnout was 37% --- yep --- 6 in 10 could not be bothered any more. (67% previously)
The political workers said that they encountered much hostility on the door step from all persuasions.
Labour won (obviously) with a much reduced majority.
Second was Conservative, third UKIP, then Welsh Nationalist, LibDem, then Greens

The two parties that have campaigned to remain in the EU received the lowest amount of votes, while ridiculously claiming to be speaking for the majority.
That is how low our system of democarcy has sunk.

And so .... yet another extention, with the intention of the UK never actually leaving and the longer they kick the can down the road, the less chance of actually seeing through the referendum result.

Another referendum ... with the question being, remain or remain lite !
Again, I predict that millions will just not bother any more.
I predict that the next general election will have the lowest turnout in history and situations like that allow extreme parties on both sides to get a disproportionate influence.

I hope that all of those politicians and activists who couldn't bring themselves to accept the result in 2016 will be happy with themselves.

Brexit isn't the problem.
Those who always intended to thawrt it are, and they will be the same bleeding hearts asking where it all went wrong when the proverbial hits the fan.

This morning I did something that I thought I'd never do, being a bit of a lefty.
I donated a hundred quid to the new Brexit Party to help them fight the EU Parliament elections.
I hope that the UK returns 73 anti EU MEPs and that they totally muck up the EU from the inside.
I hope that form an alliance with all of the other anti EU parties in Europe and bring down or at least slow down the whole thing.
I hope that they cause chaos!

Democracy as we knew it in this country is over.
I hope that they are pleased with themselves.

[david63]

The turnout was 37% --- yep --- 6 in 10 could not be bothered any more. (67% previously)

I believe that it was higher than expected of around 25%

[barney]

So the expectation was that 75% will not vote? Says it all really doesn't it?

[Manoverboard]

I'm up for EU elections . I might stand myself. Could be a bit of fun. VOTE BARNEY

I have been thinking about that …

VOTE ' BARNEY eh ' ?

… not sure it would go down too well although it does have a certain resonance .

[Jack Staff]

I'm up for EU elections . I might stand myself. Could be a bit of fun. VOTE BARNEY

I have been thinking about that …

VOTE ' BARNEY eh ' ?

… not sure it would go down too well although it does have a certain resonance .

Barney as an unelected bureaucrat?

[Manoverboard]

I'm up for EU elections . I might stand myself. Could be a bit of fun. VOTE BARNEY

I have been thinking about that …

VOTE ' BARNEY eh ' ?

… not sure it would go down too well although it does have a certain resonance .

Barney as an unelected bureaucrat?

No, no … unlike some our ' Barney eh ' would indeed be elected

[Jack Staff]

"How strange - isn’t this the same guy who said the UK had no power to do any of these things in the EU and that’s why we had to leave."

Nicola Sturgeon referring to BARNEY eh, oops sorry, referring to JRM.

[Ray Scully]

"How strange - isn’t this the same guy who said the UK had no power to do any of these things in the EU and that’s why we had to leave."

Nicola Sturgeon referring to BARNEY eh, oops sorry, referring to JRM.

Says it all. along with their determination to use the Good Friday agreement, small businesses and those working in manufacturing as 'cannon fodder' in pursuit of their ideology.

[towny44]

"How strange - isn’t this the same guy who said the UK had no power to do any of these things in the EU and that’s why we had to leave."

Nicola Sturgeon referring to BARNEY eh, oops sorry, referring to JRM.

I think I would be quite chuffed to be castigated by someone like Nicola Sturgeon, who clearly has no pride at all in the UK, as she is so keen to leave it.

[barney]

What strange comments from the Remainers ?

I hope they realise that the SNP's entire raison d'etre is to break up the UK, irrespective of Brexit.

What strange bed fellows this whole debacle has thrown up.

It reminds my of the biblical quotation from Sunday School
"as ye sow, so ye shall reap"

To all the gloaters - be careful what you wish for.
A new precedent has been set in Parliament and the upper House.
It will no doubt be used again.
Maybe next time it is used, you will not be so approving.

[Ray Scully]

What strange bed fellows this whole debacle has thrown up.

[/quote]

Hmmm I am surprised at what I would consider to be decent folk tying themselves to the Mark Francois gang.

[Gill W]

Hmmm I am surprised at what I would consider to be decent folk tying themselves to the Mark Francois gang.

Not to mention Nigel Farage

[barney]

What strange bed fellows this whole debacle has thrown up.

Hmmm I am surprised at what I would consider to be decent folk tying themselves to the Mark Francois gang.
[/quote]
Hmmmm I am surprised at someone being surprised that an elected politician decides to stand by their party manifesto.

While I have nothing politically in common with Francois, JRM or Boris Johnson, they are all
A. standing by what the elected (minority) government pledged in their manifesto.
B. standing by the wishes of the people who elected them.

The Government manifesto was to leave the EU.
No single market
No customs union
No free movement
No huge payments in.
It was/is all there in black and white.

The opposition manifesto was to respect the vote of the referendum - clearly much vaguer but still a clear intention.
You could argue that leaving in name but staying in the political and trade institutions theoretically does still mean leaving, but it won't satisfy millions of Labour voters.

The discussion has now become irrelevant.
Although Leave won by 1.2 million votes, they have lost.
1.2 million votes now counts for nothing in this country.
One vote by a convicted felon in Parliament carries more weight.

As I said guys, be careful what you wish for !
The times are a changing … and not for the better.

[barney]

Hmmm I am surprised at what I would consider to be decent folk tying themselves to the Mark Francois gang.

Not to mention Nigel Farage

Farage has been consistent since day one Gill.
His mission since election to the European Parliament is to get the UK out.
No secret.
He has shouted it from the roof tops.
He is unashamedly anti EU.
He is many things, but two faced he is not, when it comes to his intentions.

The paradox now thrown up is who do you vote for next.
Chishti is a good constituency MP but a staunch Leaver.
Can you bring yourself to vote for an MP whose position on this subject is diametrically opposed to yours.

Will you vote for the Labour candidate who agrees with you on Brexit, but that of course potentially beckons in a Corbyn government.

Can you vote for the LibDem or Green, who agree with you on this subject not on much else.

That's why I say that things will never be the same.

The two party system is probably over now.

[barney]

Just to add a bit of fact to the debate, I called up the Tory manifesto to 2017
Note the very first paragraph.

Exit the European single market and customs union but seek a "deep and special partnership" including comprehensive free trade and customs agreement

Vote in both Houses of Parliament on "final agreement" for Brexit

Assess whether to continue with specific European programmes and it "will be reasonable that we make a contribution" to the ones which continue

Agree terms of future partnership with EU alongside withdrawal, both within the two years allowed under Article 50

Convert EU law into UK law and later allow parliament to pass legislation to "amend, repeal or improve" any piece of this

Remain signatories to the European Convention on Human Rights for the next parliament

Repeal or replace the Human Rights Act "while the process of Brexit is under way" ruled out, although consideration will be given to the UK's "human rights legal framework" when Brexit concludes

Reduce and control immigration from Europe after Brexit

Seek to replicate all existing EU free trade agreements

Support the ratification of trade agreements entered into during our EU membership

Introduce a Trade Bill in the next parliament

Create a network of Her Majesty's Trade Commissioners to head nine new regional overseas posts

Reconvene the Board of Trade to increase exports from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland as well as England.

[Ray B]

I am with you Barney, two/three wasted years and it's not finished yet. May still hoping for an agreement to be made, but that, based on the last year, looks far away. We live in hope that this is over soon and we can start to rebuild government and this country.
Local elections are coming up, who would want to go around door knocking.

[towny44]

Reading through that manifesto makes me wonder why on earth the EU leaders keep asking us what we want, it seems clearly enough spelt out there.