Brexit

[Manoverboard]

"How strange - isn’t this the same guy who said the UK had no power to do any of these things in the EU and that’s why we had to leave."

Nicola Sturgeon referring to BARNEY eh, oops sorry, referring to JRM.

JRM and Barney may not be obvious bed fellows but they are both potentially standing for disruption within the EU Parliament and especially so to veto any signs of an ever increasing budget plus the aspirations of more integration from President Macron of France.

Barney

[Gill W]

Barney - I wouldn’t vote for Chishti again. I wouldn’t want to vote for Labour in a GE while Corbyn is in charge, so I’d just have to consider the other candidates, whoever they may be.

I’m amused by the assumption that Kippers and Brexiters will be able to disrupt the EU Parliament. They need to be elected first - and there’s a very large amount of Remain leaning people who are extremely keen to vote at any EU election.

Anyway, we may never get the chance to vote. I see the May/Corbyn talks have yielded nothing (no suprise there). At present there is no reason for the EU to agree to an extension. As it stands, we will leave next Friday, so Barney’s angst today may have been premature.

Incidentally, if we leave without a deal, and it turns out badly, I will be expecting the Brexit enthusiasts on this board to ‘own’ what happens. I won’t be expecting to see any complaints from this quarter.

[towny44]

Gill, why do you assume all brexiters want a no deal, I certainly don't and I imagine it's a last resort for most others. What I would have liked was what was in the Tory manifesto, but I would have been prepared to accept TMs deal if that was the best offer available. But many like those in the ERG seem to be more concerned about safeguarding the Union than I am, does that make me less patriotic than them, or just more pragmatic?

[Gill W]

Towny, you have been clear that you want to leave with a deal, and only the other day you wondered whether we should revoke A50. I should have made myself clearer - I expect those who have said at any time that we should leave with out a deal, or we have nothing to fear from leaving without a deal (or any variation on that theme) and, even after everything that has happened,are still happy to go over the cliff - they are the ones who I will expect to 'own' a no deal Brexit, with no complaints..

The ERG are nationalists, not patriots. ( not to mention many of them have their own reasons for wanting a no deal Brexit)

[Manoverboard]

If we do happen to finish up with a ' No Deal ', something I do not recall advocating, I will be inclined to blame ALL the MPs who have spent the past three years or part thereof trying to kill Brexit and TM's deal in spite of pledges to the 17,000,000+ Leave voters and their individual Party manifestos.

As for owning what happens, well, that is totally ridiculous for none of us were responsible for what is destined to happen.

[Gill W]

If we do happen to finish up with a ' No Deal ', something I do not recall advocating, I will be inclined to blame ALL the MPs who have spent the past three years or part thereof trying to kill Brexit and TM's deal in spite of pledges to the 17,000,000+ Leave voters and their individual Party manifestos.

As for owning what happens, well, that is totally ridiculous for none of us were responsible for what is destined to happen.

Basically, I'm turning around things that Leavers have said on this board. Some Leavers here have blamed Remainers for where we are now. If it's ridiculous for you to own what's going to happen, then it's equally as ridiculous for me to be blamed for what's happened.

Why have you never jumped on anybody saying that Remainers are to blame for all this?

[Onelife]

I’m just hoping that once we leave with Theresa’s deal all this blame game stuff will cease…. Let’s face it the Remainer saboteurs have done enough damage to the UK without carrying it on for the next couple of years.

[Onelife]

If we do happen to finish up with a ' No Deal ', something I do not recall advocating, I will be inclined to blame ALL the MPs who have spent the past three years or part thereof trying to kill Brexit and TM's deal in spite of pledges to the 17,000,000+ Leave voters and their individual Party manifestos.

As for owning what happens, well, that is totally ridiculous for none of us were responsible for what is destined to happen.

Basically, I'm turning around things that Leavers have said on this board. Some Leavers here have blamed Remainers for where we are now. If it's ridiculous for you to own what's going to happen, then it's equally as ridiculous for me to be blamed for what's happened.

Why have you never jumped on anybody saying that Remainers are to blame for all this?

Because the truth hurts ?

[Manoverboard]

Why have you never jumped on anybody saying that Remainers are to blame for all this?

Why should I do that ?

As a Member of this Board I basically think that if the ' Remainers ' had accepted the outcome of the vote in 2016 and not set off on a crusade to overturn the result then we probably wouldn't be in this mess although negotiating an exit from the EU was never going to be easy nor would it be possible to please everybody.

As a Moderator it is not, nor should it be, my role to delete / amend postings that are at variance with another Members beliefs, preferences or convictions regarding Brexit. If a Member steps over the line the matter is dealt with but you won't be told about it.

[towny44]

If we do happen to finish up with a ' No Deal ', something I do not recall advocating, I will be inclined to blame ALL the MPs who have spent the past three years or part thereof trying to kill Brexit and TM's deal in spite of pledges to the 17,000,000+ Leave voters and their individual Party manifestos.

As for owning what happens, well, that is totally ridiculous for none of us were responsible for what is destined to happen.

Basically, I'm turning around things that Leavers have said on this board. Some Leavers here have blamed Remainers for where we are now. If it's ridiculous for you to own what's going to happen, then it's equally as ridiculous for me to be blamed for what's happened.

Why have you never jumped on anybody saying that Remainers are to blame for all this?

Gill, be sensible no one voter or group of voters can be held responsible for the outcome of any vote, but they do need to consider the old adage, be careful what you wish for; and as a leave voter I will hold my hand up to any problems we encounter if in fact we leave, but only if we are leaving with a deal that I voted for which was always to exit the customs union and the single market with a negotiated deal.
So why are we where we are, well that's complicated but easily understood, we have a hung parliament, we have far more remain supporting MPs than leave MPs, and Scotlands 45% leave voters only have the 20% of Tory MPs on their side, and maybe not all them are leavers.
Then we have the vociferous remain campaign that followed the referendum, highlighted by that silly woman Gina Miller bringing a high court action. Do you honestly think that the EU closed their eyes and ears to all the demands to prevent Brexit when it came to the negotiations, of course not it totally weakened our hand resulting in the Chequers weekend and the first split in the cabinet, I could go on but you should get the point by now.
The end result is a watered down WA with an Irish backstop the DUP hate, and its costing us the net equivalent of 5 years EU membership, so no wonder we never jump on anyone saying Remainers are to blame.

[Jack Staff]

highlighted by that silly woman Gina Miller bringing a high court action.

I would like to know what you think that "silly woman" actually did.

[towny44]

highlighted by that silly woman Gina Miller bringing a high court action.

I would like to know what you think that "silly woman" actually did.

She was front page news as the standard bearer of the remain campaign, worth far more to the EU negotiators than they could possibly have afforded in advertising space to achieve the same result.

[Jack Staff]

highlighted by that silly woman Gina Miller bringing a high court action.

I would like to know what you think that "silly woman" actually did.

She was front page news as the standard bearer of the remain campaign, worth far more to the EU negotiators than they could possibly have afforded in advertising space to achieve the same result.

That may be your interpretation, but that is not what she did.

[towny44]

I would like to know what you think that "silly woman" actually did.

She was front page news as the standard bearer of the remain campaign, worth far more to the EU negotiators than they could possibly have afforded in advertising space to achieve the same result.

That may be your interpretation, but that is not what she did.

Oh yes it is!!!
Pantomime season again.

[barney]

I would like to know what you think that "silly woman" actually did.

She was front page news as the standard bearer of the remain campaign, worth far more to the EU negotiators than they could possibly have afforded in advertising space to achieve the same result.

That may be your interpretation, but that is not what she did.

There you go again, writing your own history. We all know exactly why she protested that parliament should trigger A50 and not the government. It was because she assumed that they wouldn't do it. That back fired but that doesn't negate her motivation.

[Jack Staff]

She was front page news as the standard bearer of the remain campaign, worth far more to the EU negotiators than they could possibly have afforded in advertising space to achieve the same result.

That may be your interpretation, but that is not what she did.

There you go again, writing your own history. We all know exactly why she protested that parliament should trigger A50 and not the government. It was because she assumed that they wouldn't do it. That back fired but that doesn't negate her motivation.

Her motivation is irrelevant. She stood up for British law and the sovereignty of our Parliament. Something I was led to believe was at the heart of the Brexit movement.

[towny44]

That may be your interpretation, but that is not what she did.

There you go again, writing your own history. We all know exactly why she protested that parliament should trigger A50 and not the government. It was because she assumed that they wouldn't do it. That back fired but that doesn't negate her motivation.

Her motivation is irrelevant. She stood up for British law and the sovereignty of our Parliament. Something I was led to believe was at the heart of the Brexit movement.

Her motivation and that of all the remainers was to thwart the result of the referendum, and it certainly looks as though they succeeded by ensuring the EU had the upper hand in the negotiations resulting in the watered down WA, and it could get much worse if a customs union is forced upon us. Shame on the lot of you.

[Jack Staff]

There you go again, writing your own history. We all know exactly why she protested that parliament should trigger A50 and not the government. It was because she assumed that they wouldn't do it. That back fired but that doesn't negate her motivation.

Her motivation is irrelevant. She stood up for British law and the sovereignty of our Parliament. Something I was led to believe was at the heart of the Brexit movement.

Her motivation and that of all the remainers was to thwart the result of the referendum, and it certainly looks as though they succeeded by ensuring the EU had the upper hand in the negotiations resulting in the watered down WA, and it could get much worse if a customs union is forced upon us. Shame on the lot of you.

Shame on you for wanting Brexit at any price.
British law and Parliamentary sovereignty? What next?
Just so you can continue to say you won, when in fact we all lose.

[towny44]

Shame on you for wanting Brexit at any price.
British law and Parliamentary sovereignty? What next?
Just so you can continue to say you won, when in fact we all lose.

I really don't why I bother discussing this with you Jack, you twist, turn and wriggle your way around avoiding the fact that your entire motivation has been to thwart the result of the referendum.
That may be your idea of British Law and Sovereignty, but it's certainly not mine, whatever happened to accepting defeat gracefully.

[Manoverboard]

We are living at a time when nobody can lose, gracefully or otherwise ?

[Ray Scully]

We are living at a time when nobody can lose, gracefully or otherwise ?

Yep quite right Mobby, what's best for UK Ltd seems no longer a factor, people are supporting their 'team' irrespective. We should have a Royal Commission, go back to basics and then when we have the honest facts without spin we can make a considered decision one way or the other
but hey that would mean compromises, ooooh silly me

[david63]

I wonder what would be happening now if we had a system where a constituency could recall their MP and force a by-election?

[Jack Staff]

I really don't why I bother discussing this with you Jack, you twist, turn and wriggle your way around avoiding the fact that your entire motivation has been to thwart the result of the referendum.

Wrong yet again Towny. I am very proud of the fact that I have done everything I legally, peacefully and democratically can to thwart the result of the referendum.

That may be your idea of British Law and Sovereignty, but it's certainly not mine, whatever happened to accepting defeat gracefully.

My idea of British Law and Sovereignty is irrelevant, as is yours. British law is British law and Gina Miller stopped the government breaking it.
Brexiters can not just do what they want because of a flawed opinion poll three years ago.

[barney]

We are living at a time when nobody can lose, gracefully or otherwise ?

Yep quite right Mobby, what's best for UK Ltd seems no longer a factor, people are supporting their 'team' irrespective. We should have a Royal Commission, go back to basics and then when we have the honest facts without spin we can make a considered decision one way or the other
but hey that would mean compromises, ooooh silly me

One mans fact is another mans fake news. Facts can only be established after the event. Before that it is an opinion or a prediction. That's part of the problem Ray. All and sundry giving their opinion as fact. Hence project fear.

[Gill W]

I’m just hoping that once we leave with Theresa’s deal all this blame game stuff will cease…. Let’s face it the Remainer saboteurs have done enough damage to the UK without carrying it on for the next couple of years.

Par for the course.

On the one hand saying that you hope the blame game will cease. Yet in the very next sentence, dishing out blame.

If we do happen to finish up with a ' No Deal ', something I do not recall advocating, I will be inclined to blame ALL the MPs who have spent the past three years or part thereof trying to kill Brexit and TM's deal in spite of pledges to the 17,000,000+ Leave voters and their individual Party manifestos.

As for owning what happens, well, that is totally ridiculous for none of us were responsible for what is destined to happen.

Basically, I'm turning around things that Leavers have said on this board. Some Leavers here have blamed Remainers for where we are now. If it's ridiculous for you to own what's going to happen, then it's equally as ridiculous for me to be blamed for what's happened.

Why have you never jumped on anybody saying that Remainers are to blame for all this?

Because the truth hurts ?

Then, in your very next post you double down on the blame.

Don't be a hypocrite - if you want the blame game to stop, play your part in it, and stop dishing it out.