Brexit

[barney]

I think if one goes there, then the others follow in case they miss something.

Beats me why?

[david63]

Why sit outside presenting the news while roasting in the heat

Because the BEEB have spent a lot of [licence payers] money on setting the "outside studio" up. I know when we were down in London last year and were in the are the outside studio thingy was quite a big operation.

[Stephen]

I can perhaps understand it in normal weather conditions, but in this heat!

[Gill W]

‘Glockenspiel Man’ was doing my head in yesterday. That was all you could hear in the background of the Sky News coverage.

Ditto. Haven't a clue what he's playing most of the time, but yesterday, while Sky were doing a serious interview with some politician or other, he cheerily played the Wombles, lol.

He was playing the red flag at one point!

[barney]

Can any of the sharp brains on here explain exactly how parliament can stop a no deal brexit given the it is the legal default position.

Rory Whatshisface said on Peston that parliament would force the Pm to ask Brussels for another extension.
Exactly how can they force him?
What if he just says no?

Is he usurped?
Who then goes to Brussels?

If there is a no confidence vote and they win, surely we just leave by default on the date that the EU have given.
It's not our deadline, it's theirs.

It's too late for another referendum.
It's probably too late for a general election.

Leave is the legal default agreed by Parliament so how is it stopped?

[anniec]

‘Glockenspiel Man’ was doing my head in yesterday. That was all you could hear in the background of the Sky News coverage.

Ditto. Haven't a clue what he's playing most of the time, but yesterday, while Sky were doing a serious interview with some politician or other, he cheerily played the Wombles, lol.

He was playing the red flag at one point!

We could all play "Name That Tune" during boring interviews.

[anniec]

Can any of the sharp brains on here explain exactly how parliament can stop a no deal brexit given the it is the legal default position.

Rory Whatshisface said on Peston that parliament would force the Pm to ask Brussels for another extension.
Exactly how can they force him?
What if he just says no?

Is he usurped?
Who then goes to Brussels?

If there is a no confidence vote and they win, surely we just leave by default on the date that the EU have given.
It's not our deadline, it's theirs.

It's too late for another referendum.
It's probably too late for a general election.

Leave is the legal default agreed by Parliament so how is it stopped?

I wondered what would happen if the PM simply sat on his hands on 31 October - apparently only the PM can ask for an extension and I can't see Boris toddling over the Channel to ask for one.

Like Barney, I'd like to know how Brexit is stopped.

[david63]

And if he does "ask" for an extension and the EU say non, nein, ne, ei, he what happens then?

[towny44]

Can any of the sharp brains on here explain exactly how parliament can stop a no deal brexit given the it is the legal default position.

Rory Whatshisface said on Peston that parliament would force the Pm to ask Brussels for another extension.
Exactly how can they force him?
What if he just says no?

Is he usurped?
Who then goes to Brussels?

If there is a no confidence vote and they win, surely we just leave by default on the date that the EU have given.
It's not our deadline, it's theirs.

It's too late for another referendum.
It's probably too late for a general election.

Leave is the legal default agreed by Parliament so how is it stopped?

The problem Barney is that no one seems to know the answer to your question, and those that do pontificate generally come up with a range of different answers.

[Gill W]

Can any of the sharp brains on here explain exactly how parliament can stop a no deal brexit given the it is the legal default position.

Rory Whatshisface said on Peston that parliament would force the Pm to ask Brussels for another extension.
Exactly how can they force him?
What if he just says no?

Is he usurped?
Who then goes to Brussels?

If there is a no confidence vote and they win, surely we just leave by default on the date that the EU have given.
It's not our deadline, it's theirs.

It's too late for another referendum.
It's probably too late for a general election.

Leave is the legal default agreed by Parliament so how is it stopped?

They’ve already voted on a bill, back in March, to reject a no deal Brexit in any circumstances.

When/if Johnson gets another deal and it goes before Parliament, it will be voted on again ( or if Johnson tries to bypass Parliamentary ratification, no doubt a bill would be presented in an attempt to compel him to obtain Parliamentary approval)

If deal passed we’d leave with the deal.

If not, we’re at the same impasse we are at now, due to the rejection in March of leaving with no deal.

Johnson seems hellbent on leaving on Oct 31. No doubt Parliamentarians would try to introduce various bills to find a way though this.

I suspect Johnson will attempt to batter through a no deal Brexit, in spite of Parliament’s best efforts to prevent the damage a no deal would cause.

I suppose he could be held in contempt of Parliament, but that doesn’t seem to be a problem these days.

We could have a situation where the executive tries to over ride a sovereign Parliament.

I hope Barney would be dismayed by this scenario, as it flies in the face of democracy and would be the act of a dictator

[barney]

My point was.... How do parliament force the Pm to ask the EU for another extension?

If he is the PM and refuses to ggo and ask, then what?

Will parliament send an alternative person to Brussels?

[johnds]

They’ve already voted on a bill, back in March, to reject a no deal Brexit in any circumstances.
They may have done but the extrension to 31st October over rides that
October 31st is a fixed term and we leave on that date unless the PM apllies for and gets an extension

[anniec]

My point was.... How do parliament force the Pm to ask the EU for another extension?

If he is the PM and refuses to ggo and ask, then what?

Will parliament send an alternative person to Brussels?

Exactly what I'd like to know.

[towny44]

My point was.... How do parliament force the Pm to ask the EU for another extension?

If he is the PM and refuses to ggo and ask, then what?

Will parliament send an alternative person to Brussels?

Exactly what I'd like to know.

I'll betcha Dominic Grieve is asking the very same question.

[Gill W]

My point was.... How do parliament force the Pm to ask the EU for another extension?

If he is the PM and refuses to ggo and ask, then what?

Will parliament send an alternative person to Brussels?

And my point was, they use parliamentary process to TRY to stop the executive doing something too bonkers and damaging.

For example a couple of weeks ago they had a vote against using the prorogation of Parliament to force through a no deal Brexit.

No doubt nearer the time further bills will be presented and voted onto attempt to get the executive to do Parliament’s bidding.

However, if by then the executive has gone completely rogue and refuses to do the bidding of Parliament, I would say we are in full constitutional crisis mode, and Parliamentary process would be invoked to remove the rogue executive,

However, like everyone on this forum I’m not a constitutional expert- it’s just my guess at how it’ll play out.


On a side note, none of the ‘democrats’ on this thread have expressed any dismay that proroguing Parliament has even been mentioned.

[Gill W]

They’ve already voted on a bill, back in March, to reject a no deal Brexit in any circumstances.
They may have done but the extrension to 31st October over rides that
October 31st is a fixed term and we leave on that date unless the PM apllies for and gets an extension

I’m not sure why the extension, agreed with the EU, would over ride a vote in our sovereign Parliament.

However, if that is true, no doubt there will be further bills and further votes

[CaroleF]

Barney, I've been asking that same question for months! If we don't leave with a deal by October 31st then we leave with No Deal - we don't crash out - we leave - simple as that. It's no use people saying that MPs have voted not to leave without a deal - it's the legal position. Maybe the EU have at last started to realise that.

[barney]

Because it was only bought up as a subject by the political commentary.

No one has ever said that they would prorogue parliament.
People got suckered in on that one.

Johnson said when asked that he wouldn't rule anything out.

The parliamentary bedwetters went into to full panic mode and voted to stop something that wasn't going to happen anyway.

UK politics is now in a very different place with both major parties and it's about time.

Shake them up and unsettle the cosyness.

[Ray Scully]

Because it was only bought up as a subject by the political commentary.

No one has ever said that they would prorogue parliament.
People got suckered in on that one.

Johnson said when asked that he wouldn't rule anything out.

The parliamentary bedwetters went into to full panic mode and voted to stop something that wasn't going to happen anyway.

UK politics is now in a very different place with both major parties and it's about time.

Shake them up and unsettle the cosyness.

But Barney it is getting worse, just a day after he becomes PM, the ERG are up in arms saying that the appointment of Dominic Cumming's is not acceptable and that Boris with his appointment is trying to neutralise them. Steve Baker knowing Cummings disdain for the ERG refused a Cabinet job and Francois the Tory 'hard man' on Newsnight last night is only prepared to accept the impossible.

[barney]

It is what it is Ray.

Three years of inertia have got us nowhere.

This cabinet was appointed for the forthcoming General election, not as a long term government.

The EU now knows exactly where the UK government stands. He has boxed himself in and the only way now is either a new agreement or no deal.
That is what is needed because it cannot just carry on as it is.

The times are a changing, and about time in my opinion.

Parliament will know by the end of August whether there is any movement from the EU.
At the moment they say no, but time will tell.

[anniec]

My point was.... How do parliament force the Pm to ask the EU for another extension?

If he is the PM and refuses to ggo and ask, then what?

Will parliament send an alternative person to Brussels?

According to Jacob Rees-Mogg in today's Torygraph, and I have no idea if he's right or not, the only ways to stop us leaving on 31 October are:

For parliament to vote through a motion to repeal Article 50.
or
Bring down the government.

[CaroleF]

I think he's right. To change the subject slightly, I just love Jacob Rees-Mogg's Style Guide for his staff - my English teacher would have loved it. I was taught the correct way to write a man's name on an envelope, assuming he didn't have a title was Esq. I've still got an essay i wrote age 11 where my teacher circled the word 'got' in red pen and there were several 'gots' in my essay and in the margin I had 'Do not use "got".' I'm sure many people could add several words or phrases to the list. I hate when the word 'of' is used instead of 'with' - 'bored of' - makes me cringe - and don't get me started on apostrophes.
Back in the dim and distant past when i was nursing at Barts Hospital in London I worked on Rees Mogg ward, a Men's Surgical ward - one of my favourites. I assume it was named after someone in Jacob Rees-Mogg's family but I'm not sure who it was. I think it may have been someone who was a Governor of the hospital.

[anniec]

I liked his list as well, Carole, even though he doesn't appear to be aware of the Oxford comma.

A. Pedant

[oldbluefox]

I think he's right. To change the subject slightly, I just love Jacob Rees-Mogg's Style Guide for his staff - my English teacher would have loved it. I was taught the correct way to write a man's name on an envelope, assuming he didn't have a title was Esq. I've still got an essay i wrote age 11 where my teacher circled the word 'got' in red pen and there were several 'gots' in my essay and in the margin I had 'Do not use "got".' I'm sure many people could add several words or phrases to the list. I hate when the word 'of' is used instead of 'with' - 'bored of' - makes me cringe - and don't get me started on apostrophes.
Back in the dim and distant past when i was nursing at Barts Hospital in London I worked on Rees Mogg ward, a Men's Surgical ward - one of my favourites. I assume it was named after someone in Jacob Rees-Mogg's family but I'm not sure who it was. I think it may have been someone who was a Governor of the hospital.

I'm with you all the way Carole. It really gets under my skin that so-called highly educated presenters and reporters on television don't know the difference between 'less' and 'fewer'. Since we have 'less policemen', 'less teachers' and 'less doctors' I presume from that there are just as many of them but they are smaller!!! To my mind it is lazy English by those who who take offence at being corrected and take a couldn't care less attitude to their job. I really don't see what the problem is with apostrophes.......... and since when was 'thank you' one word? Aaaaargh!!!

And what's this got to do with Brexit!!!!

[Manoverboard]

To change the subject slightly ……..

I'm with you all the way Carole. It really gets under my skin that so-called highly educated presenters and reporters on television don't know the difference between 'less' and 'fewer'. Since we have 'less policemen', 'less teachers' and 'less doctors' I presume from that there are just as many of them but they are smaller!!! To my mind it is lazy English by those who who take offence at being corrected and take a couldn't care less attitude to their job. I really don't see what the problem is with apostrophes.......... and since when was 'thank you' one word? Aaaaargh!!!

And what's this got to do with Brexit!!!!

Ask ' CaroleF ' would be my suggestion

ps … is " who who "correct use of the English language?