Brexit

[Gill W]

I despair Barney, comparing Brexit with a football match.

It kind of ties in with the 'you lost, get over it' mentality that is still prevalent amongst Quitters

[barney]

Benefits of Leaving
1. No longer being subject to 22,000 EU / Single Market laws - esp. the 15,000 nothing to do with cross border trade.
2. No longer being subject to a foreign Court for internal matters.
3. Being free to make (and unmake) our own laws.
4. Being able to manage the housing crisis by controlling immigration.
5. Being able to manage demand for services and improve transport -ditto-
6. No longer paying £ x,000 millions of taxpayers' money to the EU to subsidise supplicant countries
7. Being free to make Trade Deals with RoW.
and hopefully
8. Reducing the huge trade deficit with the EU
(£96,000 billion p.a. Why do EU fans think trade with the EU is so great??)

More pertinently - what are the benefits of the EU (other than warm, cosy togetherness)

Trade barriers and tariffs with the world's largest economies ?
Is that a benefit to the EU?
Total protectionism of EU farmers, subsidised via the CAP by our taxes.?
Freedom to import as many European criminals as we feel we need, getting considerably worse when Albania are formally admitted ?

Let's be honest about it, who on earth would vote to join the EU given what we now know about it and how it is run ?

What you really think will happen with reference to the Irish border should the UK leave without the withdrawal agreement.?
It's all a red herring, geared to tie the UK into the EU so the plotters can continue with their plan to overturn a democratic decision.

Say we leave on the 31st October without an agreement.
Will the EU start putting up their hard border on November 1st.
I'd be willing to bet any Remainist that this will not happen.

They will figure something out.
So if they can figure something out without a WA, then they can negotiate on it, and ensure that the UK departs with a WA.

I still think that Johnson's plan is to put to Parliament, the exact same WA but with a time limited backstop, which the EU will agree to.
And Parliament will buy it if the alternative is leaving on the 31st without a transition.

[barney]

I despair Barney, comparing Brexit with a football match.

It kind of ties in with the 'you lost, get over it' mentality that is still prevalent amongst Quitters

Absolutely !

You lost, get over it.

Put your efforts into a campaign to re-join the EU at the next GE and win democratically.

good luck with that one.

Remaining in the EU was a minority in 2016 and still is a minority three years on.

[Gill W]

As someone who railed against the concerns that the millennium bug would result in total chaos, and was proved right, I am quite looking forward to a no deal Brexit, in the hope that the left leaning media, and paranoid remainers will have egg all over their faces.

I think this has been brought up before.

With the millennium bug, it was an event that was known about for years in advance and many people spent many hours over several years making sure the worse wouldn't happen.

Brexit is just over two months away, is bigger than the millennium bug and nobody yet knows what's going to happen. However, you are classed as a bedwetter to even contemplate that there will be issues.

If it turns out well, I have always said that I will be extremely relieved and that is still the case. There won't be a scrap of egg on my face.

However, if it turns out only half as bad as some of the reports - then there is potential for a whole omelette to be over the faces of some of the inhabitants of this forum!

However, I can't say that I look forward to the opportunity to seeing you wipe the yolk off your faces. If that was the scenario, the whole country would be in crisis, and I can't wish that on anyone.

[Ray Scully]

Read a post on another forum, not Brexit related but the topic came up. one poster said that he/she hated the EU and all it stood for and we should be getting out totally by any means. Stating that sure, many were likely to be badly effected, but that was the price to be paid.
Whilst I felt the hair rising on the back of my neck reading it, I begrudgingly admired the honesty.

[Manoverboard]

Define a consequential crisis …. of the real bedwetting variety … anybody ?

ps … Gill is obviously in the know so we can assume there will be plenty of eggs, just need some ham and a few chips

[oldbluefox]

Sounds like a win/win for Gill.
Omelette anybody?

[barney]

I reiterate what I've said previously and mean this with conviction.

After leaving the EU, I don't think it will as good as Leavers hoped or as bad as Remainists fear.

But, the simple fact remains that our government of the day, decided to let the people choose which direction the country should go in.
The people voted in high numbers and the leave side clearly won.
The instruction was then for the Government to carry out that wish.

It was at that point that the wheels came off, because instead on acknowledging the result and getting on with their job, a sizable amount of MPs on both sides of the argument decided that they would do their level best to thwart the result.

Every MP must take full responsibility to the ensuing mess.

If the result of the 2016 referendum is overturned, for whatever reason, without ever being enacted, then all hell will let loose in this country.
It will be the end of democracy as we have known it.
After the next GE, the losers will take to the streets in protest, and it will become very ugly and even more dividing.

This country must leave the EU on the 31st October.
Hopefully with some sort of transition agreement, but whatever, we have to leave.

Then, get back to some sort of normality.

If anybody feels very strongly about applying to re-join the EU, then lobby your MP.
Stand yourself.
Go through the democratic process.
Convince people that your way is correct.
Do it the correct way.

[oldbluefox]

You're right barney.
Brexit has to happen but I would have no problem, if in a few years' time the Remainers want us to re-join the EU then so be it, if that is what the nation wants.
My objection is with those who refuse to accept the outcome of the 2016 referendum and have done everything in their power to overturn that result. Their actions have weakened our negotiating position and done immense harm to the country, for which they should accept responsibility.

[Gill W]

Read a post on another forum, not Brexit related but the topic came up. one poster said that he/she hated the EU and all it stood for and we should be getting out totally by any means. Stating that sure, many were likely to be badly effected, but that was the price to be paid.
Whilst I felt the hair rising on the back of my neck reading it, I begrudgingly admired the honesty.

I think the people that come out with things like that, believe they are personally immune from Brexit.

They might be singing a different tune this winter, who knows

[towny44]

Read a post on another forum, not Brexit related but the topic came up. one poster said that he/she hated the EU and all it stood for and we should be getting out totally by any means. Stating that sure, many were likely to be badly effected, but that was the price to be paid.
Whilst I felt the hair rising on the back of my neck reading it, I begrudgingly admired the honesty.

I think the people that come out with things like that, believe they are personally immune from Brexit.

They might be singing a different tune this winter, who knows

Precisely Gill, who knows, so why are your feet firmly planted on the side of the doom and gloommongers?

?

[Gill W]

Define a consequential crisis …. of the real bedwetting variety … anybody ?

ps … Gill is obviously in the know so we can assume there will be plenty of eggs, just need some ham and a few chips

Any of the outcomes outlined in Yellowhammer would probably be defined as a crisis.

As forum approval appears to be signalled for the government taking mitigating steps, I can only assume that this means the forum members must agree that that the Yellowhammer outcomes are a possibility.

Because it would be really odd if you were all approving the mitigation of scaremongering

It’s Towny who brought eggs into it

[Gill W]

Read a post on another forum, not Brexit related but the topic came up. one poster said that he/she hated the EU and all it stood for and we should be getting out totally by any means. Stating that sure, many were likely to be badly effected, but that was the price to be paid.
Whilst I felt the hair rising on the back of my neck reading it, I begrudgingly admired the honesty.

I think the people that come out with things like that, believe they are personally immune from Brexit.

They might be singing a different tune this winter, who knows

Precisely Gill, who knows, so why are your feet firmly planted on the side of the doom and gloommongers?

?

I’m not going to repeat everything I’ve said over the last 4 years.

If you don’t know by now why I don’t think Brexit is a good idea, you’ll never know.

All we can do is wait and see.

I feel that it’s more prudent to hope for the best but to prepare for the worst. It seems a better approach than having ‘optimism’ and then being caught short if it goes really pear shaped

[Manoverboard]

Define a consequential crisis …. of the real bedwetting variety … anybody ?

ps … Gill is obviously in the know so we can assume there will be plenty of eggs, just need some ham and a few chips

Any of the outcomes outlined in Yellowhammer would probably be defined as a crisis.

As forum approval appears to be signalled for the government taking mitigating steps, I can only assume that this means the forum members must agree that that the Yellowhammer outcomes are a possibility.

Because it would be really odd if you were all approving the mitigation of scaremongering

It’s Towny who brought eggs into it

It comes as no surprise to me that Towny likes eggs … what else is there to do in Huddersfield I ask myself ?

Regarding a bed wetting crisis ; I had in mind something that any of us would individually place within that category … to select the entire list would be a case of severe depression on the part of the believer and I, for one, would not wish for that to be the case.

Personally I accept that some of the YH scenarios may become a reality but most, if not all, were conjured up on a residential course where the participants were trying to impress the Project Manager rather than coming up with anything factual.

[Ray Scully]

Latest BBC scaremongering, the availability of fuel. The ramifications of UK refineries not being competitive with most supplies coming into the UK on zero tariff will most certainly influence the reaction of UK folk whose employment in this industry is put at risk.

[barney]

Wouldn't it have been beneficial if the BBC explained to the viewer how and why it could make any difference.
They made a statement in their story with nothing backed up by fact.

'a danger to viability' from cheaper imports while exports will be hit with tariffs.
What level of fuel is imported and exported.
I thought we bought crude and refined it for the domestic market.

Sounds a load of old cobblers to me

[towny44]

Wouldn't it have been beneficial if the BBC explained to the viewer how and why it could make any difference.
They made a statement in their story with nothing backed up by fact.

'a danger to viability' from cheaper imports while exports will be hit with tariffs.
What level of fuel is imported and exported.
I thought we bought crude and refined it for the domestic market.

Sounds a load of old cobblers to me

The UK govt have said that in the event of a no deal brexit, fuel imports will have zero tariffs, but the good old EU will apply 5% to imports from the UK.

[barney]

The Office of National Statistics have announced that the UK economy is actually £26 Billion larger than previously thought.

Gives you confidence in them, doesn't it ?

[towny44]

The Office of National Statistics have announced that the UK economy is actually £26 Billion larger than previously thought.

Gives you confidence in them, doesn't it ?

Lies, damned lies and National statistics!!!

[barney]

So, the BBC story is of potential fuel shortages, backed up with old footage from 2000 showing rationing at petrol stations.

In the next breath, they tell us that fuel exports to Ireland will have a tariff imposed.

Would the UK really be exporting fuel to Ireland while having a fuel shortage at home?

And they wonder why sensible folk turn off on this nonsense.

[towny44]

So, the BBC story is of potential fuel shortages, backed up with old footage from 2000 showing rationing at petrol stations.

In the next breath, they tell us that fuel exports to Ireland will have a tariff imposed.

Would the UK really be exporting fuel to Ireland while having a fuel shortage at home?

And they wonder why sensible folk turn off on this nonsense.

The more interesting point though Barney was the comment from the Industry spokesman that, despite the weak exchange rate, without the import duty the UK refineries would be unable to compete. Surely the big oil companies are not going to use cheap tariff free fuel from Russia, and I would hope that the supermarkets would also exercise restraint with their sourcing, unless there are delays which threaten supplies.

[Ray Scully]

So, the BBC story is of potential fuel shortages, backed up with old footage from 2000 showing rationing at petrol stations.

In the next breath, they tell us that fuel exports to Ireland will have a tariff imposed.

Would the UK really be exporting fuel to Ireland while having a fuel shortage at home?

And they wonder why sensible folk turn off on this nonsense. Generalisations again Barney! I would consider myself a sensible person and would not consider this as nonsense. I feel that to have an objective view one has to consider all information, not just that which fits your own argument; to hopefully have a balanced view.

[barney]

Remainists are clutching at straws and focusing on every single piece of information that supports their view about leaving the EU.

Are there risks?
Sure there are.
There are risks everyday in everything.

But the majority of people voted for change.
You cannot vote for change and then expect everything to remain the same.

Personally, I don't think that leaving the EU will throw up any problems that cannot be overcome, and medium to long term, we will be better off both financially and culturally.

Obviously I have no evidence of this because that can only be proven after the event.

[CaroleF]

I'm getting so fed up with the BBC putting out statements of fact that are not fact, just someone's opinion and nothing is said to give the other side of the question. So I've stopped listening to BBC News. I'd listen and watch the TV News if both sides of the argument were put forward but they aren't, or very rarely. Since when was it the BBC's responsibility to tell people what they should be thinking? I thought it was their responsibility to give the news - factual news. Let's face it, no matter which side of the debate we are on nothing is definitely known about what exactly will happen after we leave the EU. So for people to either tell the BBC's doom and gloom or come to that the other extreme that everything in the garden will be wonderful is wrong. Since when was an opinion a fact?

[barney]

Since June 2016 Carole.

And now the highly esteemed ONS have confessed that they have underestimated EU migration into the UK by as much as 16%.

You couldn't make it up, could you.
These are the same people who have been telling us what will happen after we leave the EU.

Pretty much everything they have forecast has been inaccurate.