Brexit

[Mervyn and Trish]

You seem to be saying it’s Remainders who have raised the temperature. As there are only a few Remainers left on here, and I personally hold back a lot of what I could say, I must say that’s another thing I’m not very impressed with today.

You are missing my point Gill. It's not just on here. It's nationwide. And I'm not blaming you personally. But QBob's comment was typical. Blinkered and closed minds. Because we do not bow down and accept his superior knowledge. Because we disagree.

[Mervyn and Trish]

If it wasn’t merely an advisory referendum, it is likely that it would have been declared invalid.

It wasn't advisory. Before it was held MP's overwhelmingly agreed to accept its result.

And why was it invalid? Any more than any election result? Politicians on both sides lied, as they always do. If every vote where a politician lied was invalid we'd be in perpetual suspension between governments.

You are merely proving my point about Remainers reluctance to accept the result and wheel out any argument to try to overturn it. Would you have said it was advisory and/or invalid if the result had been 52/48 the other way?

[Gill W]

It was advisory - we spoke about that particular subject only weeks after the referendum.

As we know the leave campaigns broke electoral law. Google James Eadie QC Referendum for more. I don't post links anymore or post detailed explanations as its a waste of my time - I know that nobody on this thread really wants to learn more.

I'm not proving anything. I accepted the result. However, three years down the line and all that has happened since and all the information we now have - I firmly believe it is not in the best interests of the U.K. for Brexit to proceed. I'm allowed that opinion.

If the referndum had been 52/48 the other way - of course I'd say it was still advisory - for the simple fact that it WAS an advisory referndum. If it had been shown that the result had been obtained illegally, that would have been very wrong. I'd have expected the referndum to have been rerun.

Finally, it was said before the referndum that a 52/48 result would be 'unfinished business''. We know who said it too, Nigel Farage.

[barney]

I lived in Kent at the time and went down to Dover to see the then Prime minister speak.
At no time did he say that the referendum was advisory.
Quite the opposite in fact.

He said to the audience, very specifically, that a vote to leave meant leaving the single market and customs union.

You could Google that but you know that's unnecessary because you know thats absolutely true.

So, where anything vague comes into that is beyond me.

Leave side statements were lies?
Remain side statements were just Inaccurate?

There is none so blind as those who will not see.

You don't think it's a good idea.
I get and understand that.
We had a vote on the issue and leave won the vote with a majority of about 1.4million.
That's it.
It's over, or will be end of October

[towny44]

It was advisory - we spoke about that particular subject only weeks after the referendum.

As we know the leave campaigns broke electoral law. Google James Eadie QC Referendum for more. I don't post links anymore or post detailed explanations as its a waste of my time - I know that nobody on this thread really wants to learn more.

I'm not proving anything. I accepted the result. However, three years down the line and all that has happened since and all the information we now have - I firmly believe it is not in the best interests of the U.K. for Brexit to proceed. I'm allowed that opinion.

If the referndum had been 52/48 the other way - of course I'd say it was still advisory - for the simple fact that it WAS an advisory referndum. If it had been shown that the result had been obtained illegally, that would have been very wrong. I'd have expected the referndum to have been rerun.

Finally, it was said before the referndum that a 52/48 result would be 'unfinished business''. We know who said it too, Nigel Farage.

As I peer down the big hole that you are still digging, I can barely make you out at the bottom Gill.

[barney]

Look, in my opinion, Johnson went to Europe this week for show purposes.

It's so he can say that he tried, but the EU will not budge and he can deflect the blame on them.
Once the right wing press get on message, it will be portrayed as the nasty EU refusing the UKs reasonable request.

He can then go to the General election on the basis of being the guy who will honour the result of the referendum.

I'm not a huge Johnson fan but I think he's playing a blinder, politically.

I also think he'll chuck his hat in with Trump at the G7 to further alienate the EU.
WTF is Tusk doing there anyway?
He's not a leader of a G7 country.

[Manoverboard]

… and then the good ol US of A

Have you ever asked yourself why they wash chicken in chlorine?

They do so to remove the bugs, salmonella for example.

I and Mobietta have eaten heaps of it over the years without any ill effects … either way you will not be forced to eat any, in fact you could even raise your own chickens for added protection .

ps … if Barney has a different view to me I can live with it, I do not need a thumbsup from anybody to get through the day.


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[Kendhni]

However, three years down the line and all that has happened since and all the information we now have - I firmly believe it is not in the best interests of the U.K. for Brexit to proceed. I'm allowed that opinion.

Did you take into account the blue passports, a special 50p piece and EORIs ? Highly advanced planning.

[oldbluefox]

… and then the good ol US of A

Have you ever asked yourself why they wash chicken in chlorine?

They do so to remove the bugs, salmonella for example.

I and Mobietta have eaten heaps of it over the years without any ill effects … either way you will not be forced to eat any, in fact you could even raise your own chickens for added protection .

ps … if Barney has a different view to me I can live with it, I do not need a thumbsup from anybody to get through the day.


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[Gill W]

… and then the good ol US of A

Have you ever asked yourself why they wash chicken in chlorine?

They do so to remove the bugs, salmonella for example.

I and Mobietta have eaten heaps of it over the years without any ill effects … either way you will not be forced to eat any, in fact you could even raise your own chickens for added protection .

ps … if Barney has a different view to me I can live with it, I do not need a thumbsup from anybody to get through the day.


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Why does American chicken have to have bugs washed off it?

I’ll answer for you. In the US, there are no laws to prevent poor standards of animal husbandry so chickens can be reared in very poor condition and have to be disinfected before they can be considered for human consumption.

EU standards are much higher so the meat doesn’t need disinfecting.

If you are comfortable with needing your food disinfecting before you eat it - fine.

But I’m not and I’m also concerned about animal welfare . But I expect I’ll be sneered at for that.

[Gill W]

However, three years down the line and all that has happened since and all the information we now have - I firmly believe it is not in the best interests of the U.K. for Brexit to proceed. I'm allowed that opinion.

Did you take into account the blue passports, a special 50p piece and EORIs ? Highly advanced planning.

It’s all worthwhile after all.

[screwy]

Can we all give it a rest it’s bank holiday weekend,let play resume on Tuesday.

[Gill W]

Well I’m leaving it here for a while.

It really is impossible to talk to most people on this thread as, if seems to me, they must be ‘right’.

That’s not to mention the constant digs, sneers , implications that I’m not being truthful and general low level unpleasantness that I I put up with on a day to day basis.

You will totally deny what I’m saying - but believe me it is there.

Last time I said I was leaving it for a while, I got some really snotty remarks addressed to me - so go for it, amuse yourself at my expense. I wouldn’t expect anything else from the majority on this thread.

[Stephen]

Time to cut the grass, then a beer reward followed by a light lunch in preperation for a late afternoon BBQ when it's a bit cooler.

[Ray Scully]

Well I’m leaving it here for a while.

It really is impossible to talk to most people on this thread as, if seems to me, they must be ‘right’.

That’s not to mention the constant digs, sneers , implications that I’m not being truthful and general low level unpleasantness that I I put up with on a day to day basis.

You will totally deny what I’m saying - but believe me it is there.

Last time I said I was leaving it for a while, I got some really snotty remarks addressed to me - so go for it, amuse yourself at my expense. I wouldn’t expect anything else from the majority on this thread.

Gill, generalizations and contemptuous or mocking comment is par for the course for our IMHO idealogue leaver colleagues. I shall restrict my post to ones of a humourous nature. Repeating any media brings suggestions of fake news and sadly that is the only information I am privy to

[Mervyn and Trish]

So Donald Tusk today says the EU will listen to new ideas from Boris if they're realistic.

So is that the same as will not negotiate or different? I'm baffled.

[Happydays]

Why is Tusk there he doesn't represent a country

[Mervyn and Trish]

In his own mind he does. The USE.

[Happydays]

In his own mind he does. The USE.

sad but true!!

[Manoverboard]

Why does American chicken have to have bugs washed off it?

I’ll answer for you. In the US, there are no laws to prevent poor standards of animal husbandry so chickens can be reared in very poor condition and have to be disinfected before they can be considered for human consumption.

EU standards are much higher so the meat doesn’t need disinfecting.

That may not be strictly true … if the following extract is accurate.

Why is Chlorinated Chicken used in the US?

To help manage pathogens like salmonella and campylobacter and protect consumers from infections.

According to a report from the Adam Smith Institute (which argues in favour of allowing PRTs), “immersing poultry meat in chlorine dioxide solution of the strength used in the United States reduces prevalence of salmonella from 14% in controls to 2%. EU chicken samples typically have 15-20% salmonella.”

The Full Report re Chlorinated Chicken

There may be other reports of course but in any event chicken is a bird that carries bugs by default.


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[screwy]

I’ve known a few birds like that.....

[Stephen]

I’ve known a few birds like that.....

[barney]

So, here we are !

All the way back to square one again.

Parliament cannot agree a deal, but also won't agree no deal.

So, where do we go from here ?

Answers on a postcard please.

I was listening to LBC at lunchtime and the host was saying that the May/EU agreement was voted down because of hard line Brexiteers in the Tory party , so I did a little fact check, and lo and behold, I found out that it was voted down by a vast majority of MPs from all parties.
All LibDems. All of Labour bar half a dozen. The solo Green. All of the SNP plus a few Indies to boot, as well as some pro and anti Brexit Tories.

Funny how things seem to become fact if repeated enough, isn't it?

[barney]

Why does American chicken have to have bugs washed off it?

I’ll answer for you. In the US, there are no laws to prevent poor standards of animal husbandry so chickens can be reared in very poor condition and have to be disinfected before they can be considered for human consumption.

EU standards are much higher so the meat doesn’t need disinfecting.

That may not be strictly true … if the following extract is accurate.

Why is Chlorinated Chicken used in the US?

To help manage pathogens like salmonella and campylobacter and protect consumers from infections.

According to a report from the Adam Smith Institute (which argues in favour of allowing PRTs), “immersing poultry meat in chlorine dioxide solution of the strength used in the United States reduces prevalence of salmonella from 14% in controls to 2%. EU chicken samples typically have 15-20% salmonella.”

The Full Report re Chlorinated Chicken

There may be other reports of course but in any event chicken is a bird that carries bugs by default.


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That's just another red herring Moby, just like the Irish border issue.

Ultimately, the consumer decides what to buy, and if folks don't want to buy American chicken, then it will not be imported, no matter what any trade agreement says.
The importer and wholesaler must be confident that they can shift it.

Ask why American cars are not hugely successful here ?
It's because the average consumer doesn't like them.
Simple as that.

[barney]

Just a little reminder attached to explain to our Remainist friends that 'things to stay as they are' is not and has never been an option.

https://www.politico.eu/article/europe- ... mpetition/

Quite a short article but very telling about which way the European Union sees it's future.