Brexit

[Gill W]

More like a non functioning democracy at the moment Gill. (welcome back by the way)

It can only function again with a general election to change the numbers either way.

Today, parliament has been resumed, but nothing of substance has actually changed.

We'll get much more blah, blah, blah but the time really has come to put up or shut up.

This indecision is killing the country.

We all know exactly what parliament doesn't want.
Today is the day to tell us what they do want.

thanks for the welcome back - I'm not sure if it's a pleasure to be back, but here I am anyway!

I would say we have a non functioning government - but also that parliament is completely stuck.

SOMETHING has to happen to move things along, but I don't think any GE will be granted until after 31st Oct, so that the risk of a no deal Brexit can be fully averted (for the time being)

Even if there is a GE, I'm not sure we'll be in any different position. Probably no overall majority, and probably Corbyn still Labour leader. Maybe a new Conservative leader, as it should be unthinkable that Johnson could carry on as Leader. But the unthinkable happens on a daily basis these days. As ever, we'll just have to wait and see.

I see Geoffrey Cox went full on Brian Blessed ( but without the beard)

[screwy]

I blame Ted Heath for taking us into the Common Market....De Gaull never did want Britain in, theres thanks for you.

[Happydays]

I watched Geoffrey Cox and thought he was excellent! Listen to him if you get the chance.

[david63]

don't think any GE will be granted until after 31st Oct, so that the risk of a no deal Brexit can be fully averted

There is no guarantee that any extension will be granted. All that the UK Government can do (and has done) is force the PM of the time to request an extension. Everyone (especially politicians) seem to be overlooking the fact that the EU may not grant an extension and no extension = no deal Brexit.

[towny44]

If Brussels wants to put an end to this fiasco then denying us any extension is the only choice, even if they made deep concessions there's no guarantee that the Westminster rabble would agree to it.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I don't actually see how anything that has happened has averted a no deal Brexit. Various people on this forum have told us repeatedly that the EU will not renegotiate. The legal position remains that no deal is the default. If Boris conforms and requests an extension there is no guarantee the EU will agree it.

But if they do, and there is then an election - what? If the Conservatives win we're back where we are. If Labour wins Jezzer says he'll negotiate a better deal (really?). The Lib Dems say they'll revoke Article 50 if they win. Is that a realistic prospect? I don't think so. So all this shenanigans takes us no nearer a deal and no further from no deal.

[barney]

Maybe, just maybe Merv, a general election might throw up a different parliament numerically.
That is the only thing that can get things moving.

It might be a tory majority.
It might be a Labour majority.
More likely it will be a coalition of some description.

But all the time the numbers stay as they are, nothing will happen.

On a personal note, we've committed to tens of thousands of pounds worth of stock from our EU suppliers for spring next year with no understanding of the actual cost because we don't know whether tariffs will be in place.
Tariffs don't really bother me either way as we will just pass it on, but we do need a bit of certainty either way now.
It's dragged on long enough

[Mervyn and Trish]

I agree 100% Barney. Uncertainty is the killer. Get it done or forget it.

[Stephen]

Just watched Boris being interviewed by Robert Peston on the news.

Like him or not I admire Boris's back bone and sticking to his guns. Many would have crumbled. Time will tell.

[screwy]

Maybe he should quit the Tories and join Nigel’s lot, just a thought.

[Stephen]

Maybe he should quit the Tories and join Nigel’s lot, just a thought.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Well I thought the Commons last night was a disgrace by all concerned. What was the point of them being there? They could have had a similar slanging match in a pub at home.

And it threw up yet more irony and hypocrisy that is clearly beyond the wit of our MPs to comprehend.

First we have the leader of the opposition, who refuses to sing the national anthem, made a huge fuss about declaring an oath of allegiance to the Queen, and turned up at the Cenotaph last year wearing his gardening coat, calling for the PM to resign for insulting HM.

And today we've had Bercow complaining about the behaviour in the Commons last night, when it is his job to control it. Oh for Betty Boothroyd's cries of "Order Order". She wouldn't have stood for it. Bercow should have suspended the sitting until they could behave themselves. But no. He enjoys it too much. And his own language in the past few days has been as bad as anyone else's. The arrogant little twerp has no integrity and no shame.

[david63]

Couldn't agree more - I didn't see much of it as I am not prepared to waste my life on such utter bad behaviour. If they were children (rather than adults behaving as children) they would have been sent to the naughty step (and if I had my way - left there!)

[Gill W]

It shows that, as I've been saying for a very long time, language matters.

All of it was horrible to watch.

I thought it was disgusting that Johnson couldn't find the decency to show a shred of contrition acting unlawfully.

Later on, his behaviour crossed a line. I will not comment on this further, as, language matters, and I am not going to ramp things up any more.

[Ray Scully]

Well the guys is not in a good place. He can't precipitate an election. Little chance or ERG support. The chance of getting Labour MPs to assist in voting for a deal most probably went up in smoke last night. Betting odds of 1/5 that an extension will be given, consequently Farage will be circulating, and to top it all of, after losing his brother's support, his sister came out against him today. I wouldn't want to swap places with him.

[barney]

I watched and it was very embarrassing.

Parliament is embarrassing.

The MPs are embarrassing.

We need a different parliament.

[screwy]

Changing tack. I saw a video last night of the anti Brexit clown with the top hat,apparently it has come to light that he is an actor called Dave Allen who is being paid £80 per day to stand outside Westminster,don’t know if it’s true but on the video he was being challenged and was doing his best to hide .

Don’t shoot the messenger.

[Mervyn and Trish]

It shows that, as I've been saying for a very long time, language matters.

I agree Gill. Where we possible disagree is that I feel it is far from one sided. As a Leave voter I've been called ignorant, stupid, unpatriotic, xenophobic and plenty more. And I saw plenty of bad behaviour from both sides in the news coverage of last night too.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Changing tack. I saw a video last night of the anti Brexit clown with the top hat,apparently it has come to light that he is an actor called Dave Allen who is being paid £80 per day to stand outside Westminster,don’t know if it’s true but on the video he was being challenged and was doing his best to hide .

Don’t shoot the messenger.

The other anti Brexit clown, Bercow, is being paid a lot more to sit inside!

[Ray Scully]

Changing tack. I saw a video last night of the anti Brexit clown with the top hat,apparently it has come to light that he is an actor called Dave Allen who is being paid £80 per day to stand outside Westminster,don’t know if it’s true but on the video he was being challenged and was doing his best to hide .

Don’t shoot the messenger.

I would question the guys judgement. Standing outside in all weather, subject to verbal and some physical abuse on a daily basis.
All for the sum of £80 a day ?

[Stephen]

Well I thought the Commons last night was a disgrace by all concerned. What was the point of them being there? They could have had a similar slanging match in a pub at home.

And it threw up yet more irony and hypocrisy that is clearly beyond the wit of our MPs to comprehend.

First we have the leader of the opposition, who refuses to sing the national anthem, made a huge fuss about declaring an oath of allegiance to the Queen, and turned up at the Cenotaph last year wearing his gardening coat, calling for the PM to resign for insulting HM.

And today we've had Bercow complaining about the behaviour in the Commons last night, when it is his job to control it. Oh for Betty Boothroyd's cries of "Order Order". She wouldn't have stood for it. Bercow should have suspended the sitting until they could behave themselves. But no. He enjoys it too much. And his own language in the past few days has been as bad as anyone else's. The arrogant little twerp has no integrity and no shame.

My point exactly too Merv, which I made clearly in a email to Mr Burcow.

[barney]

Changing tack. I saw a video last night of the anti Brexit clown with the top hat,apparently it has come to light that he is an actor called Dave Allen who is being paid £80 per day to stand outside Westminster,don’t know if it’s true but on the video he was being challenged and was doing his best to hide .

Don’t shoot the messenger.

His name is Steve Bray and he is financed by Britain for Europe who are in turn financed by a group including George Soros.

He is Welsh and was a coin dealer before Brexit.

He has been supplied with an apartment in Westminster which is provided by the Pimlico Plumber owner.
Very near to Rees Mogg apparently.

Nobody knows if he gets paid anything but he must be doing ok as he was at the Libdem and Labour conferences.
I wonder if he will bother with the Tory one now ?

[Gill W]

It shows that, as I've been saying for a very long time, language matters.

I agree Gill. Where we possible disagree is that I feel it is far from one sided. As a Leave voter I've been called ignorant, stupid, unpatriotic, xenophobic and plenty more. And I saw plenty of bad behaviour from both sides in the news coverage of last night too.

Oh, I agree that it happens on both sides.

If someone from the Remain side of the fence had behaved like Johnson did last night, I’d be equally disgusted

[gilly88]

Changing tack. I saw a video last night of the anti Brexit clown with the top hat,apparently it has come to light that he is an actor called Dave Allen who is being paid £80 per day to stand outside Westminster,don’t know if it’s true but on the video he was being challenged and was doing his best to hide .

Don’t shoot the messenger.

His name is Steve Bray and he is financed by Britain for Europe who are in turn financed by a group including George Soros.

He is Welsh and was a coin dealer before Brexit.

He has been supplied with an apartment in Westminster which is provided by the Pimlico Plumber owner.
Very near to Rees Mogg apparently.

Nobody knows if he gets paid anything but he must be doing ok as he was at the Libdem and Labour conferences.
I wonder if he will bother with the Tory one now ?

I am sick to death of his voice and face popping up behind the reporters . why do they not put a green screen up behind them when they are reporting. or more to the point why do they bother standing outside in the rain and cold anyway?.

[oldbluefox]

I think if I had stood for the best part of three and a half hours facing a torrent of abuse, goading and accusations after a Transatlantic flight (even if it was first class), and possibly feeling jet lagged, I doubt I would have been as tolerant of the baying mob as he was.
I am still trying to get my head around the link between the term 'Surrender Act' and the murder of Jo Cox. I have heard much worse from all corners of the House of Commons.

Btw I couldn't see Denis Skinner and haven't seen him for a while. I disagree with him on many counts but I like him. He was once reprimanded by the Speaker for saying half of the Tories were corrupt. He retracted his statement and then said half of the Tories were not corrupt!!