Brexit

[Gill W]

I really struggle with the concept that people are happy to accept an inferior ‘deal’ to the one we have now, or even no deal at all,

How do you know that it is an inferior deal? It is a deal and it will work, if it is ratified.

Only history will determine how good, or bad, a deal (or no deal) it is and that will never be absolute as there is no benchmark to judge it against.

‘Any deal will do’

[Gill W]

I do admire your determination not to accept defeat even though it's staring you in the face.

This is the future of our country we’re talking about ….

I agree ….

Trading ' Globally ' is a far better option for the future of this Country than being locked into the restraining culture of the EU.

Our biggest market is right on our doorstep

[oldbluefox]

This is the future of our country we’re talking about ….

I agree ….

Trading ' Globally ' is a far better option for the future of this Country than being locked into the restraining culture of the EU.

Our biggest market is right on our doorstep

Indeed. That's why we voted to leave the EU.

[towny44]

This is the future of our country we’re talking about ….

I agree ….

Trading ' Globally ' is a far better option for the future of this Country than being locked into the restraining culture of the EU.

Our biggest market is right on our doorstep

Gill, no one is shutting the door on trade with Europe, whatever sort of trade deal is eventually negotiated, the EU will probably remain our largest trading party for many years, or probably decades. However we hope to be able to forge new trade deals around the world that will enable an increase in our economy that the stifling closed market of the EU did not permit us to discover.
We are not leaving Europe just the organisation that the 1970's fledgling common market, which promised so much, and yet failed to fulfil that promise, has now become.

[Gill W]

I agree ….

Trading ' Globally ' is a far better option for the future of this Country than being locked into the restraining culture of the EU.

Our biggest market is right on our doorstep

Indeed. That's why we voted to leave the EU.

Sorry, that doesn’t make sense

[david63]

Any deal will do

Yes if it will break the current deadlock. There never was, and never will be, a deal that satisfies everybody and as I said only history will prove what sort of deal it becomes. Deals can be renegotiated and I suspect that some, or perhaps all, of the latest deal that centres of NI will be renegotiated when a trade deal is negotiated with the EU. This change is not going to happen overnight there is (or at least there was) two years of transition and a lot could happen in that time.

[Manoverboard]

This is the future of our country we’re talking about ….

I agree ….

Trading ' Globally ' is a far better option for the future of this Country than being locked into the restraining culture of the EU.

Our biggest market is right on our doorstep

…. and we will continue, as now, to trade with the EU.

[oldbluefox]

I agree ….

Trading ' Globally ' is a far better option for the future of this Country than being locked into the restraining culture of the EU.

Our biggest market is right on our doorstep

…. and we will continue, as now, to trade with the EU.

..........and be free to negotiate our own deals with the rest of the world.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Without countries smaller than our cities having a veto to stop us doing so.

[barney]

There is a good reason why two of the wealthiest countries in Europe have never voted to join the EU.

Given what it has morphed in to, I'm 100% sure that the UK would never join given the current conditions.

The pro EU lobby will have their day after Brexit is done. If they can convince the population that the EU is such a great institution, then they will walk the general election on a mandate of applying to rejoin.

I'm holding my breath

[Gill W]

Without countries smaller than our cities having a veto to stop us doing so.

Which just goes to show, by being members of a large bloc, their voice is amplified.

But we’re apparently walking away from that.

We’ll end up being a moderately sized country that thinks it’s more important than it is, due to English exceptionalism and vague memories of Empire.

[Gill W]

Any deal will do

Yes if it will break the current deadlock. There never was, and never will be, a deal that satisfies everybody and as I said only history will prove what sort of deal it becomes. Deals can be renegotiated and I suspect that some, or perhaps all, of the latest deal that centres of NI will be renegotiated when a trade deal is negotiated with the EU. This change is not going to happen overnight there is (or at least there was) two years of transition and a lot could happen in that time.

Well there’s just over a year left now, and when you consider what’s happened in the last three years, it’s going to be a slow process.

If May’s slightly rejigged deal gets through parliament, this time next year I expect us to be looking over the next cliff edge.

[towny44]

Any deal will do

Yes if it will break the current deadlock. There never was, and never will be, a deal that satisfies everybody and as I said only history will prove what sort of deal it becomes. Deals can be renegotiated and I suspect that some, or perhaps all, of the latest deal that centres of NI will be renegotiated when a trade deal is negotiated with the EU. This change is not going to happen overnight there is (or at least there was) two years of transition and a lot could happen in that time.

Well there’s just over a year left now, and when you consider what’s happened in the last three years, it’s going to be a slow process.

If May’s slightly rejigged deal gets through parliament, this time next year I expect us to be looking over the next cliff edge.

So you are now considering that we may actually leave the EU, that's a massive step forward from you Gill, well done.

[towny44]

For those who are assuming that if we vote to leave it could take years for a FTA to be negotiated, because it took so long to negotiate what should have been a simple WA, should consider that was because the EU did not want us to leave and played hardball and dragged their feet. However we now come to the position in which we hold the upper hand because of the disparity in our EU balance of trade, this means they will now be more desperate to agree a deal, enabling us to push for the most favourable terms.

[Quizzical Bob]

I agree ….

Trading ' Globally ' is a far better option for the future of this Country than being locked into the restraining culture of the EU.

Oh for goodness sake....

Repeat after me: "There is nothing to stop us trading globally whilst we are in the EU"

But it is much more difficult to trade with the EU once we have left.

Why can't you see this???

[Quizzical Bob]

Gill, no one is shutting the door on trade with Europe, whatever sort of trade deal is eventually negotiated, the EU will probably remain our largest trading party for many years, or probably decades. However we hope to be able to forge new trade deals around the world that will enable an increase in our economy that the stifling closed market of the EU did not permit us to discover.
We are not leaving Europe just the organisation that the 1970's fledgling common market, which promised so much, and yet failed to fulfil that promise, has now become.

Yes you are shutting the door on trade with Europe. Do you not understand the huge importance of the Single Market? Do you not know how angry so many small businesses are that over thirty years of hard work is going to be flushed down the pan? If we are not a member then nothing we produce is 'made in the EU' and cannot have a CE mark attached to it (without a prohibitive approval cost). Therefore it cannot be sold in the EU and the lack of certification means that it will be expensive to sell it in the rest of the world as well.

"new trade deals"

We already have all the trade deals that we could wish for courtesy of our membership of the EU. Nothing we shall eventually agree will come even close to these.

"stifling closed market of the EU"

Where do you find this claptrap? Don't write such nonsense if you haven't got a clue about what it means. The EU is the largest, wealthiest trading bloc in the world yet you want us to have nothing to do with it. What on earth do you mean by 'stifling closed market'? It's the profits from the business generated within the Single Market that fund investment in other markets. Its market of over 500 million people is stimulating and efficient and is Margaret Thatcher's greatest achievement. Outside that market British companies will have top compete against those within it and they will have the benefit of a much larger customer base.

And yes, as you might gather, I am absolutely furious with where we are heading.

[Manoverboard]

I agree ….

Trading ' Globally ' is a far better option for the future of this Country than being locked into the restraining culture of the EU.

Oh for goodness sake....

Repeat after me: "There is nothing to stop us trading globally whilst we are in the EU" ...

" There is nothing to stop us trading globally whilst we are in the EU providing the EU has negotiated an appropriate trading deal with that particular Country "

Is that close enough for you, for goodness sake ?

.

[oldbluefox]

"The EU rules prohibit individual countries from negotiating their own deal. Instead the EU negotiates trade deals on behalf of all 28 member states".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41859691

Interestingly on the subject of tariffs........
"The UK currently collects tariffs on goods arriving in Britain from outside the EU at rates set by Brussels. The money is passed on to the EU, minus a share to cover the cost of the collection". (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... sumers-pay). I presume after Brexit the UK will retain the tariffs.

[towny44]

Gill, no one is shutting the door on trade with Europe, whatever sort of trade deal is eventually negotiated, the EU will probably remain our largest trading party for many years, or probably decades. However we hope to be able to forge new trade deals around the world that will enable an increase in our economy that the stifling closed market of the EU did not permit us to discover.
We are not leaving Europe just the organisation that the 1970's fledgling common market, which promised so much, and yet failed to fulfil that promise, has now become.

Yes you are shutting the door on trade with Europe. Do you not understand the huge importance of the Single Market? Do you not know how angry so many small businesses are that over thirty years of hard work is going to be flushed down the pan? If we are not a member then nothing we produce is 'made in the EU' and cannot have a CE mark attached to it (without a prohibitive approval cost). Therefore it cannot be sold in the EU and the lack of certification means that it will be expensive to sell it in the rest of the world as well.
I wonder how on earth all the countries that have trade deals are managing if that is the case.
"new trade deals"

We already have all the trade deals that we could wish for courtesy of our membership of the EU. Nothing we shall eventually agree will come even close to these.
QB again I ask you where do you obtain your info. because if all the facts you portray were true then surely project fear would have been trumpeting them from day one, and yet there is only you spouting these nuggets of information
"stifling closed market of the EU"

Where do you find this claptrap? Don't write such nonsense if you haven't got a clue about what it means. The EU is the largest, wealthiest trading bloc in the world yet you want us to have nothing to do with it. What on earth do you mean by 'stifling closed market'? It's the profits from the business generated within the Single Market that fund investment in other markets. Its market of over 500 million people is stimulating and efficient and is Margaret Thatcher's greatest achievement. Outside that market British companies will have top compete against those within it and they will have the benefit of a much larger customer base.
I could ask where you get all your "claptrap" from, but I am too polite.
And yes, as you might gather, I am absolutely furious with where we are heading.

I think that about the only fact on which we can both agree.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Do you not know how angry so many small businesses are that over thirty years of hard work is going to be flushed down the pan?

Or are they just angry that now they'll have to invest in training and decent wages instead of relying on cheap labour from the EU?

[barney]

I have a small business and I am cool about leaving, preferably with a withdrawal agreement and ultimately a trade agreement.
I don't export but do buy from European countries and they are very worried about losing the UK market.
One of my preferred suppliers from Denmark has already folded due to brexit uncertainty and lack of UK orders.
I replaced them with a Scottish company but if they leave the UK, I'll have to think again I expect.
Whatever, business does business not governments.

[Quizzical Bob]

" There is nothing to stop us trading globally whilst we are in the EU providing the EU has negotiated an appropriate trading deal with that particular Country "

Is that close enough for you, for goodness sake ?

.

Well that's not true. We can trade with any other country in the world, we are not restricted to only dealing with those that have an agreement with the EU.

Now can you see why I get annoyed?

[Quizzical Bob]

Do you not know how angry so many small businesses are that over thirty years of hard work is going to be flushed down the pan?

Or are they just angry that now they'll have to invest in training and decent wages instead of relying on cheap labour from the EU?

Where on earth do you get that idea? Cheaper EU labour is not used for exporters. It is generally used where the indigenous workforce is unwilling to do the jobs.

Businesses are angry because they have lost their biggest market. A lot of British employees are going to lose their livelihoods.

[Quizzical Bob]

I have a small business and I am cool about leaving, preferably with a withdrawal agreement and ultimately a trade agreement.
I don't export but do buy from European countries and they are very worried about losing the UK market.
One of my preferred suppliers from Denmark has already folded due to brexit uncertainty and lack of UK orders.
I replaced them with a Scottish company but if they leave the UK, I'll have to think again I expect.
Whatever, business does business not governments.

I used to export a lot to Denmark and later even more to France.

It all depends on your type of business but for many classes it involves the reduction of a market of 500 million to one of 65 million. Soon to be even fewer

[Manoverboard]

" There is nothing to stop us trading globally whilst we are in the EU providing the EU has negotiated an appropriate trading deal with that particular Country "

Is that close enough for you, for goodness sake ?

.

Well that's not true. We can trade with any other country in the world, we are not restricted to only dealing with those that have an agreement with the EU.

Now can you see why I get annoyed?

Nope.

Definition of the EU's CUSTOM UNION states …

A trade agreement under which two or more countries do not put tariffs (taxes) on goods coming in from other countries in the union. The countries also decide to set the same tariff on goods entering from outside the union. The EU customs union includes EU member states and some small non-EU members and forbids members from negotiating trade agreements separately from the EU. Instead trade agreements are negotiated collectively.