Brexit

[Gill W]

I agree ….

Trading ' Globally ' is a far better option for the future of this Country than being locked into the restraining culture of the EU.

Oh for goodness sake....

Repeat after me: "There is nothing to stop us trading globally whilst we are in the EU"

But it is much more difficult to trade with the EU once we have left.

Why can't you see this???

Bob, it's truly bizarre.

Our biggest market is sitting there right on our doorstep, and they seem to be happy that it's going to be more difficult to trade with them, because they think it's (apparently) more important to get sweeping new trade deals with Vanuatu and Tuvulu.

It defies logic.

[Quizzical Bob]

" There is nothing to stop us trading globally whilst we are in the EU providing the EU has negotiated an appropriate trading deal with that particular Country "

Is that close enough for you, for goodness sake ?

.

Well that's not true. We can trade with any other country in the world, we are not restricted to only dealing with those that have an agreement with the EU.

Now can you see why I get annoyed?

Nope.

Definition of the EU's CUSTOM UNION states …

A trade agreement under which two or more countries do not put tariffs (taxes) on goods coming in from other countries in the union. The countries also decide to set the same tariff on goods entering from outside the union. The EU customs union includes EU member states and some small non-EU members and forbids members from negotiating trade agreements separately from the EU. Instead trade agreements are negotiated collectively.

Yes, I am very familiar with that requirement. But that is not relevant to what you wrote:
”providing the EU has negotiated an appropriate trading deal with that particular Country”

Any member state can trade with any other country that they choose. What they cannot do is negotiate their own trade agreements with any other country. This absolutely does not mean, as you wrote, that a member state can only trade with a country with which the EU has a trade agreement.

[towny44]

Well that's not true. We can trade with any other country in the world, we are not restricted to only dealing with those that have an agreement with the EU.

Now can you see why I get annoyed?

Nope.

Definition of the EU's CUSTOM UNION states …

A trade agreement under which two or more countries do not put tariffs (taxes) on goods coming in from other countries in the union. The countries also decide to set the same tariff on goods entering from outside the union. The EU customs union includes EU member states and some small non-EU members and forbids members from negotiating trade agreements separately from the EU. Instead trade agreements are negotiated collectively.

Yes, I am very familiar with that requirement. But that is not relevant to what you wrote:
”providing the EU has negotiated an appropriate trading deal with that particular Country”

Any member state can trade with any other country that they choose. What they cannot do is negotiate their own trade agreements with any other country. This absolutely does not mean, as you wrote, that a member state can only trade with a country with which the EU has a trade agreement.

You're nitpicking QB, yes we can currently trade with anyone, but only on WTO terms, in future we will be able to negotiate our own trade deals, and hopefully one of those will be with the EU.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Cheaper EU labour is not used for exporters. It is generally used where the indigenous workforce is unwilling to do the jobs.

Really? But i didn't mention exporters. There are plenty of small businesses who are not exporters. And yes, where the indigenous workforce is unwilling to do the jobs...... for the poor wages many employers try to get away with and without decent training and opportunities. Why do you think so many working people voted to leave?

[Quizzical Bob]

Nope.

Definition of the EU's CUSTOM UNION states …

A trade agreement under which two or more countries do not put tariffs (taxes) on goods coming in from other countries in the union. The countries also decide to set the same tariff on goods entering from outside the union. The EU customs union includes EU member states and some small non-EU members and forbids members from negotiating trade agreements separately from the EU. Instead trade agreements are negotiated collectively.

Yes, I am very familiar with that requirement. But that is not relevant to what you wrote:
”providing the EU has negotiated an appropriate trading deal with that particular Country”

Any member state can trade with any other country that they choose. What they cannot do is negotiate their own trade agreements with any other country. This absolutely does not mean, as you wrote, that a member state can only trade with a country with which the EU has a trade agreement.

You're nitpicking QB, yes we can currently trade with anyone, but only on WTO terms, in future we will be able to negotiate our own trade deals, and hopefully one of those will be with the EU.

There is no country in the world that trades on ‘WTO terms’.

What you are saying is that we shall give up all the arrangements that we have courtesy of our EU membership, and they are many, in the vain hope that we can agree something better with some other country that doesn’t at present have any agreement with the EU.

The usual time taken to agree a trade deal is seven to ten years and we don’t have the collective negotiating power of the EU so we are extremely unlikely to end up with anything better than we have already. Besides, all that we are talking about is a tariff of a small percentage and that is outweighed by movements in the exchange rate.

You don’t need a trade deal in order to trade, and a trade deal does not guarantee that there will be trade.

And for these pittances we want to abandon our biggest market?

Idiotic.

[Quizzical Bob]

Cheaper EU labour is not used for exporters. It is generally used where the indigenous workforce is unwilling to do the jobs.

Really? But i didn't mention exporters. There are plenty of small businesses who are not exporters. And yes, where the indigenous workforce is unwilling to do the jobs...... for the poor wages many employers try to get away with and without decent training and opportunities. Why do you think so many working people voted to leave?

Leaving the EU does not mean that the UK will employ fewer EU workers. Whatever working people voted for they are likely to be disappointed if they think that there will be more jobs available.

These low paid jobs whereof you speak only exist because... well, because they are low paid. You can’t just put the prices up and hope to keep the business going.

And it wasn’t me who brought up the subject of low paid workers. There is very little that the UK produces that depends on cheap labour. I was referring to hi-tech products which involve continuous customer support. This is not going to be viable or even possible under future arrangements.

We need all the exports that we can achieve.

[towny44]

And for these pittances we want to abandon our biggest market?

Idiotic.

Bob why do you keep repeating this comment no one is proposing we stop trading with the EU, if you continue with these false statements then I can only assume that either you don't what you are talking about, or you are deliberately spreading fake news.

[Mervyn and Trish]

If trade with the EU becomes impossible - and I don't believe for one minute it will, but if - that will be a two way thing. So the smarter businesses will change their model to supply the un-met home market when imports dry up. And because of the negative balance of trade, particularly in manufacturing, that will be a bigger market than the one we lose. Smart businesses succeed. Smart businesses see opportunities not problems.

[barney]

Don't distort the argument with sensible reason Merv.
Hysterical rhetoric seems to be the preferred option these days.
After we leave the EU, it's patently obvious that ALL trade with Europe will immediately cease.
As if?

[Quizzical Bob]

And for these pittances we want to abandon our biggest market?

Idiotic.

Bob why do you keep repeating this comment no one is proposing we stop trading with the EU, if you continue with these false statements then I can only assume that either you don't what you are talking about, or you are deliberately spreading fake news.

Trading with the EU will be at a much lower level than it is now. Nobody disputes that. At the moment the Single Market includes the UK. When we have left then everything that we sell will be subject to customs forms with an associated handling charge and delays and the imposition of VAT (reclaimable later) for the EU importer.

Don’t even think of selling specialist electronic equipment that might need to be returned to the UK for repair, updates or servicing because the costs involved with each movement would be prohibitive. Would you buy a laptop from Slovenia if you had to send it back their for servicing? So why should a Slovenian buy from the UK?

Think of a young fashion designer in Manchester who might like to take samples of her work to a trade exhibition in Milan. It would take days to fill in a list of every item and they would have to be approved by customs in both directions. And her European competitors only have to chuck theirs in the back of a van and drive a few hours.

The big companies will not be affected by the changes but for all the smaller businesses it is going to be the end of the road.

And don’t try to tell me that I don’t know what I am talking about. I have been doing this business for forty years and I have been selling to Europe both before and after the Single Market and I know which I prefer. I have sold to the Middle East and Australia, and most difficult of all was to the USA. I have taken satellite encryption systems from Canada to the USA and back and that wasn’t easy.

There is a whole level of business at the lower value levels that is not economically viable outside the Single Market so it will disappear from the UK and move to within the EU. This is not fake news. It is cold, hard economic reality.

Thanks a bundle for ruining the lives of so many. And all for no advantages.

[Quizzical Bob]

Don't distort the argument with sensible reason Merv.
Hysterical rhetoric seems to be the preferred option these days.
After we leave the EU, it's patently obvious that ALL trade with Europe will immediately cease.
As if?

Clueless

[towny44]

And for these pittances we want to abandon our biggest market?

Idiotic.

Bob why do you keep repeating this comment no one is proposing we stop trading with the EU, if you continue with these false statements then I can only assume that either you don't what you are talking about, or you are deliberately spreading fake news.

Trading with the EU will be at a much lower level than it is now. Nobody disputes that. At the moment the Single Market includes the UK. When we have left then everything that we sell will be subject to customs forms with an associated handling charge and delays and the imposition of VAT (reclaimable later) for the EU importer.

Don’t even think of selling specialist electronic equipment that might need to be returned to the UK for repair, updates or servicing because the costs involved with each movement would be prohibitive. Would you buy a laptop from Slovenia if you had to send it back their for servicing? So why should a Slovenian buy from the UK?

Think of a young fashion designer in Manchester who might like to take samples of her work to a trade exhibition in Milan. It would take days to fill in a list of every item and they would have to be approved by customs in both directions. And her European competitors only have to chuck theirs in the back of a van and drive a few hours.

The big companies will not be affected by the changes but for all the smaller businesses it is going to be the end of the road.

And don’t try to tell me that I don’t know what I am talking about. I have been doing this business for forty years and I have been selling to Europe both before and after the Single Market and I know which I prefer. I have sold to the Middle East and Australia, and most difficult of all was to the USA. I have taken satellite encryption systems from Canada to the USA and back and that wasn’t easy.

There is a whole level of business at the lower value levels that is not economically viable outside the Single Market so it will disappear from the UK and move to within the EU. This is not fake news. It is cold, hard economic reality.

Thanks a bundle for ruining the lives of so many. And all for no advantages.

All your problems can be solved if parliament sees sense and votes for Boris's deal tomorrow.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Idiotic?

Clueless?

Clearly QBob didn't get the memo about language.

[Stephen]

I for one will be cracking open the bubbly if it all goes well today. But somehow I think the lucazade will be staying on the shelf.

[Manoverboard]

Any member state can trade with any other country that they choose. What they cannot do is negotiate their own trade agreements with any other country. This absolutely does not mean, as you wrote, that a member state can only trade with a country with which the EU has a trade agreement.

It isn't possible to include every debating point in a posting but I suspect that you knew what I meant …. to clarify …

On departure we will be able to negotiate terms that are better than WTO for trade and services in Countries which are not included within present EU limitations.

[Stephen]

Another delay, now there's a surprise

[towny44]

Another delay, now there's a surprise

Corbyn, Swinson and Blackford, that well known coven of wicked witches win yet a further delay in that long running Brexit saga, that makes Eastenders and Coronation Street seem fast paced.

[david63]

I think I have lost the plot now (not sure I ever knew what it was!)

As I understand it this latest fiasco means that Parliament has not rejected the "Boris" deal, in fact it has effectively approved it but won't give the final OK until all the relevant legislation has been passed. But when the legislation has been passed it will be a done deal [pun intended] anyway - which means that they have approved it!

Have I missed something here?

[Mervyn and Trish]

You'd better ask QBob. I'm a clueless idiot. Apparently.

[Gill W]

I think I have lost the plot now (not sure I ever knew what it was!)

As I understand it this latest fiasco means that Parliament has not rejected the "Boris" deal, in fact it has effectively approved it but won't give the final OK until all the relevant legislation has been passed. But when the legislation has been passed it will be a done deal [pun intended] anyway.

Have I missed something here?

As I understand it, they want more time to scrutinise the legislation.

Which makes sense - why should something that will affect this country for years to come be rushed through in an afternoon.

The law now requires Johnson to write to the EU to ask for a delay, and he reckons he’s not going to comply. The Scottish court was given assurances that he’d comply with the Benn Act. It’ll probably end up in court again.

[Stephen]

So where was Mrs Cranky. I would have thought as first minister of Scotland she should have put in an appearance.

As for Boris sending 'a' letter to the EU, If they've got any sense they'll send it back saying 'not known at this address'.

[david63]

So where was Mrs Cranky. I would have thought as first minister of Scotland she should have put in an appearance.

She aint a member of our Parliament (thank goodness)

As for Boris sending 'a' letter to the EU

Thinking about it does he have to? Parliament have de facto agreed the deal

[Gill W]

Yes he has to, by midnight tonight.

Parliament haven’t agreed anything yet, not even de facto

[towny44]

Well he has, sort of, but also with covering letters saying he is not going to negotiate an extension, and it seems the EU is supporting his position.
So much for Corbyn thinking he has the support of the EU and will easily negotiate a better deal, although maybe he will be able to negotiate a better deal, but only for the EU.

[Stephen]

The poisonous dwarf

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