Brexit

[Gill W]

And hopefully this week draws a line under that. Now we work together for the best deal. If a party wants to campaign to rejoin at the next election so be it. I expect they'll enjoy the same success as the Lib Dems in December.

If your consider the amount of MPs the UK Independence Party or Brexit Party have ever had, it would appear that the amount of MPs in Parliament is not necessarily significant in order to achieve a long term aim

[towny44]

And hopefully this week draws a line under that. Now we work together for the best deal. If a party wants to campaign to rejoin at the next election so be it. I expect they'll enjoy the same success as the Lib Dems in December.

If your consider the amount of MPs the UK Independence Party or Brexit Party have ever had, it would appear that the amount of MPs in Parliament is not necessarily significant in order to achieve a long term aim

My own view is that the split in the Tory party was by far the major driver leading to David Cameron's decision to have a referendum. UKIP and its successor the Brexit party were only ever successful in EU elections, but I will admit that their ability to split the Tory vote in elections probably was something that helped DC come to his fateful conclusion.
However the EUs unwillingness to make significant concessions to DC was undoubtedly the major reason for the leave majority.

[Mervyn and Trish]

And hopefully this week draws a line under that. Now we work together for the best deal. If a party wants to campaign to rejoin at the next election so be it. I expect they'll enjoy the same success as the Lib Dems in December.

If your consider the amount of MPs the UK Independence Party or Brexit Party have ever had, it would appear that the amount of MPs in Parliament is not necessarily significant in order to achieve a long term aim

That's true but they were the only significant uk wide party to campaign pro EU at the last election and I cant see that changing any time soon.

[Gill W]

And hopefully this week draws a line under that. Now we work together for the best deal. If a party wants to campaign to rejoin at the next election so be it. I expect they'll enjoy the same success as the Lib Dems in December.

If your consider the amount of MPs the UK Independence Party or Brexit Party have ever had, it would appear that the amount of MPs in Parliament is not necessarily significant in order to achieve a long term aim

That's true but they were the only significant uk wide party to campaign pro EU at the last election and I cant see that changing any time soon.

Maybe not soon. We’ll have to see how it all pans out

[oldbluefox]

However the EUs unwillingness to make significant concessions to DC was undoubtedly the major reason for the leave majority.

Had the EU been more amenable to DC's requests the result of the referendum could have been significantly different. The EU, in many respects, have only themselves to blame.

[barney]

I was reading an interview with Frans Timmerman this morning and he said that right up to the result of the last GE, he and many others in Brussels were convinced that Brexit would not happen.

They had been convinced by the losing lobby that there would be another referendum with the opposite result.
That saw the whole thing as a protest, allowing the people to have a little whinge and then get back to normal.
He sounded genuinely surprised that we were actually leaving.

It does seem that Brussels seriously under estimated the situation.

[david63]

It does seem that Brussels seriously under estimated the situation.

... and still do with their intransigent approach to the next round of negotiations.

[Manoverboard]

I felt sad when their Parliamentary Speaker switched Nige off cos his lot were waving their good-byes with a smile and a Union Jack.

Rules is Rules from a petty minded bureaucrat I thought to myself.

[barney]

Rules is rules as long as you are part of the club Moby.
I watched live and Verhofstadt over ran but at least double his allotted time.

The NI lady just gave a five minute rant about English imperialism

Most were respectful and said that the UK will be greatly missed, both our influence and our money.

What I found amazing was that for years we've been told that the UK is kind of irrelevant and that nobody in Europe really cared very much either way.
Hardly discussed, I'd heard on many occasions.

Well, it's being discussed now.

Verhofstadt said as the main body of his speech how the UK was allowed too much privilege and too many opt outs and that is what caused Brexit.
Not enough EU, in his opinion, and when we ask to re-join, it will be on their terms of 100% in every institution.
I do hope he's not holding his breath.

They now seem pretty terrified that the UK will be hugely successful outside of the EU and are trying to tie this government in to it's current systems as much as possible.
This gives us great leverage in future discussions, added to the fact that the UK knows exactly what deals have already been cut with other countries.

All focus has been put on UK exports into Europe.
The onus will now shift onto EU exports into the UK.
Do they want free unfettered access into our market? (90 billion imbalance in their favour)
Are they happy with limited tariffs and on what products?

I think that they will find the UK's position a million miles away from what they are used to with Mrs May's stance.

[Gill W]

I was relieved when Farage was switched off as he was a nasty churlish embarrassment. I would much rather remember the singing of Auld Lang Syne.

[barney]

I agree Gill.

There was no need for that.

A bit of dignity would not have gone amiss.

Pretty predictable though.

[Ray Scully]

Rules is rules as long as you are part of the club Moby.
I watched live and Verhofstadt over ran but at least double his allotted time.

The NI lady just gave a five minute rant about English imperialism

Most were respectful and said that the UK will be greatly missed, both our influence and our money.

What I found amazing was that for years we've been told that the UK is kind of irrelevant and that nobody in Europe really cared very much either way.
Hardly discussed, I'd heard on many occasions.

Well, it's being discussed now.

Verhofstadt said as the main body of his speech how the UK was allowed too much privilege and too many opt outs and that is what caused Brexit.
Not enough EU, in his opinion, and when we ask to re-join, it will be on their terms of 100% in every institution.
I do hope he's not holding his breath.

They now seem pretty terrified that the UK will be hugely successful outside of the EU and are trying to tie this government in to it's current systems as much as possible.
This gives us great leverage in future discussions, added to the fact that the UK knows exactly what deals have already been cut with other countries.

All focus has been put on UK exports into Europe.
The onus will now shift onto EU exports into the UK.
Do they want free unfettered access into our market? (90 billion imbalance in their favour)
Are they happy with limited tariffs and on what products?

I think that they will find the UK's position a million miles away from what they are used to with Mrs May's stance.

Well Barney I sincerely hope I was wrong you are right and this is a win win situation for the UK.

[Manoverboard]

I was relieved when Farage was switched off as he was a nasty churlish embarrassment. I would much rather remember the singing of Auld Lang Syne.

It was good ol British humour, no more n no less, but it sadly fell on a few deaf humourless ears. You had only to look at their faces to see that the smiles were real enough to show pleasure rather than spite.

The were a number who were NOT joining in with Auld Lang Syne … they looked French for the most part .

[david63]

Do they want free unfettered access into our market?

I suspect that there is a vast difference between what the "EU" want and what the member states want - and it will be interesting to see who comes out on top. My money will be on the member states - eventually.

There is going to have to be a fundamental change within the "EU" whereby they are going have to listen, and take notice, of the wishes of the member states rather than the overriding "we are right and we know better than you as to what you want" approach that exists now.

[barney]

Ireland are being very bullish at the moment with the 'force' behind them.

They need to remember that they will need to use a 'third country' as a land bridge to their single market.

So, any Customs and Border checks that the EU insist on will need to be carried out as their trucks enter the 'third country' and then maybe again as they leave.

Then there is the Japan, Canada, South Korea roll over deals that are currently being discussed.
My sister-in-law is currently working on the Japan one.
It looks like it will probably be a straight copy and paste.
Those exporting countries will want to keep full access to the UK market plus Japan has significant financial interests here.

Then there is the City of London.
A little known fact that most of the European business is financed in London.
They currently have no system to replace this risk and certainly couldn't sort this out within a year.
So, if the EU cut out London, borrowing will be much higher and much more difficult for EU companies.

Then there is the trade agreement with the USA that apparently begins on Monday.
Whether that comes to anything remains to be seen but all builds up a picture of the UK's future going forward.
Then their are the Commonwealth countries and new unexplored markets in Africa.

The penny appears to be dropping in Brussels, that their reach and power is not as all encompassing as they thought it would be when dealing with a large economy.

If handled correctly , and I think it will be, then there is a win/win for all.
The EU keep their political project and the UK can go back to what we signed up for in the first place.
Free Trade.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I read someone somewhere yesterday saying they didn't remember when we voted to join the EU. No of course they don't because we never did. We voted to join the Common Market. A very different thing. John Major principally pushed through the legislation to move the goal posts.

[anniec]

I read someone somewhere yesterday saying they didn't remember when we voted to join the EU. No of course they don't because we never did. We voted to join the Common Market. A very different thing. John Major principally pushed through the legislation to move the goal posts.

Hear hear, but I don't recall a vote on joining. I do recall a vote on remaining; as you say, though, it was a vote for remaining in a very different organisation to the one of today.

[oldbluefox]

I found the impassioned speeches of the Greens and friends nauseous and embarrassing. FGS we are leaving the EU, not Europe so much of what they said was sentimental tosh. In fairness I suppose I would have felt emotional had I been seeing the gravy train leaving the station.
I wonder how long it will be before other countries follow suit.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I read someone somewhere yesterday saying they didn't remember when we voted to join the EU. No of course they don't because we never did. We voted to join the Common Market. A very different thing. John Major principally pushed through the legislation to move the goal posts.

Hear hear, but I don't recall a vote on joining. I do recall a vote on remaining; as you say, though, it was a vote for remaining in a very different organisation to the one of today.

Yes on reflection you're right.

[Stephen]

Today's the day

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[screwy]

I see Mandelson on Sky this morning still scare mongering.

[Mervyn and Trish]

And on Facebook there are still remainers hurling insults at what they call gammons. And making the extraordinary assumption that those who voted for Brexit are also climate change and holocaust deniers. Says rather more about their intelligence than that of the people they're attacking!

[david63]

Appears the message is getting through

Lessons need to be learnt from Brexit, according to Europe's chief negotiator Michel Barnier.

He told the BBC's Europe editor Katya Adler that the EU needs to listen to the people of Europe more closely in the future.

[Stephen]

Too late ....... EU

[oldbluefox]

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