Life After Brexit

[Onelife]

Hi Foxy

Whatever the truth in this article it won't do our EU negotiating position any harm.

Whilst we can't sign off any global trade deals the more brokering we do the more pressure it puts on our EU friends...an agreement in word is as good as an agreement signed off when you are playing the bluff game of who bends first.

[Frank Manning]

Are none of you concerned that journalists are being banned from No10 briefings? Johnson does not like scrutiny or challenge? This sounds somewhat like 1930s 3rd Reich behaviour. Never mind eh? We won! "What is it about you lost that you cant understand."

[Gill W]

Are none of you concerned that journalists are being banned from No10 briefings? Johnson does not like scrutiny or challenge? This sounds somewhat like 1930s 3rd Reich behaviour. Never mind eh? We won! "What is it about you lost that you cant understand."

I know, Frank. At best yesterday’s actions at No 10, were Trumpian, but at worst appeared to be downright sinister.

Also, no comment has been made about Johnson’s latest ramblings and bluster.

It was a huge news day yesterday, ignored by the forum, who instead latch on to an inaccurate piece about Nissan because they like the narrative.

[towny44]

It was a huge news day yesterday, ignored by the forum, who instead latch on to an inaccurate piece about Nissan because they like the narrative.

What was the huge news Gill, please explain I genuinely want to know?

[barney]

Cast your mind back to immediately after the referendum result.

I was trying to explain to our old friend Jack Staff that politics in the U.K. would never be the same again.

Given the current situation of a huge Tory majority, they can literally do what they want.

The way of communicating has changed. This forum proves that.
The easiest way of avoiding negative journalism is to avoid it. Cut out the middle man and speak directly.
Sounds familiar?

The media will have to come to terms with it.
Times have changed.

Is it right?
Well, probably not, but that’s the way it’s going to be.
Get used to it.

I spent 25 years of my life analysing data.
The writing was on the wall.

The U.K. media is full of rent an opinion who sometimes have no idea what they are talking about.

[Manoverboard]

The newsworthy story for me was Boris Johnson saying ' There's no need' for the UK to follow EU rules on trade '.

[barney]

The EU rules are already written into U.K. law.
That’s a done deal.

The discussion is whether the U.K. rescinds any of these laws in the future (highly unlikely) or accept any future EU directives.

The chances of the U.K. accepting future directives is literally nil.

If we did, we would be tied in to a diminishing economic bloc for ever.

[Manoverboard]

Are none of you concerned that journalists are being banned from No10 briefings …

At this moment in time I am not.

The last thing one's PM needs is a bunch of disruptive left wingers nitpicking at the edges else aiming to conduct the UK / EU negotiations via the media.

[CaroleF]

I would say the Broadcasting Companies, particularly the BBC, have only got themselves to blame. I watched some of the BBC's Election Night marathon broadcast again the other day - I'm a glutton for punishment - and it was interesting that the unfolding results were the complete opposite from what the Company expected that it was almost as if they really didn't know what to say.

[barney]

Are none of you concerned that journalists are being banned from No10 briefings? Johnson does not like scrutiny or challenge? This sounds somewhat like 1930s 3rd Reich behaviour. Never mind eh? We won! "What is it about you lost that you cant understand."

In the spirit of fairness Frank, you may have misunderstood what actually happened.
Some journalists were denied access (for reasons not specified) and the others left in solidarity.
Given that the entire industry is governed by scoops, this solidarity will last about ten minutes.

Never think that the media is a friend of the people.
They are ruthless.

I note that No.10 have also banned all ministers from have lunch dates with journalists and a policy of zero tolerance on leaks.

I’d say that given the shambles under May, when ministers were leaking while still in the cabinet room, you can understand their paranoia.

As I said , these are very different times.

[Frank Manning]

But it wasn't just left wingers, and most other journalists walked out in protest. Before the BBC get the blame, they were not excluded, but they and ITV protested. When people support the exclusion of anyone who questions the government ( or indeed anything they disagree with, or dont want to hear) it is a denial of democracy. This applies equally to political parties who deselect their MP just because he disagrees with the leadership. (Labour).

You can fool some of the people all of the time etc., but you cant fool all of the people all of the time. The EU Commission are discovering that.

As for ministerial leaks Barney, Johnson & Co were not blameless. If you live by the sword etc. It all smacks of lack of transparency.

Wait 'til Donald teaches BoJo how to tweet.

[Onelife]

The way l see things is that we ALL have a vested interest in making Brexit work and to this end l can't see anything wrong with selective briefing. We need to be talking our country up rather than giving a few headline grabbing journalists the opportunity to dumb down our countries/governments achievements at every opportunity.

The term "freedom of the press" is all but a guise to write headline grabbing claptrap and has distanced it's self from what was once the corner Stone of democracy.

[Manoverboard]

For me one's PM ( regardless of colour ) and Ministers should be scrutinised by the opposition Parties within the House.

The reporters are not doing their work on behalf of the people, having known a ' News of the World ' reporter some years ago ….. as Barney posted they are indeed ruthless and operate without scruples or concern for their prey.

[anniec]

Are none of you concerned that journalists are being banned from No10 briefings? Johnson does not like scrutiny or challenge? This sounds somewhat like 1930s 3rd Reich behaviour. Never mind eh? We won! "What is it about you lost that you cant understand."

I am certainly very concerned.

[barney]

But it wasn't just left wingers, and most other journalists walked out in protest. Before the BBC get the blame, they were not excluded, but they and ITV protested. When people support the exclusion of anyone who questions the government ( or indeed anything they disagree with, or dont want to hear) it is a denial of democracy. This applies equally to political parties who deselect their MP just because he disagrees with the leadership. (Labour).

You can fool some of the people all of the time etc., but you cant fool all of the people all of the time. The EU Commission are discovering that.

As for ministerial leaks Barney, Johnson & Co were not blameless. If you live by the sword etc. It all smacks of lack of transparency.

Wait 'til Donald teaches BoJo how to tweet.

I think that you are still missing the point Frank.
Like it or not, things are not the same as they were.

When Johnson point blank refused to be open to the sort of media scrutiny that we have become accustomed to during the election, the writing was well and truly on the wall.

They are going to do things differently.

There is no denial of democracy !
That is reactionary.
Democracy has already spoken and voted Johnson as the PM for the next five years.

What there is, is a denial of micro scrutiny.

You all know my feelings on Johnson, but I must say that once again, his team have played a blinder and have taken control of the situation.
As I say, like it or not, it's the new future.

[Frank Manning]

The way l see things is that we ALL have a vested interest in making Brexit work and to this end l can't see anything wrong with selective briefing. We need to be talking our country up rather than giving a few headline grabbing journalists the opportunity to dumb down our countries/governments achievements at every opportunity.

The term "freedom of the press" is all but a guise to write headline grabbing claptrap and has distanced it's self from what was once the corner Stone of democracy.

It isn't about talking the country up, or down. It isn't about Brexit. It is about democracy, and above all truth. I am frequently hearing on this forum about the democratic vote. You cant suspend democracy, and it must be as rigidly adhered to after the event, as it was before. We know in hindsight how right Dr David Kelly was about WMD, and how he was pilloried by Tony Blair and the unelected Alistair Campbell. The press asked the questions, if we had waited for the opposition to do anything, we would have waited in vain.

We surely cant allow the unelected Cummings to control BoJo and the sensible Tories, to the point where we are trying to muzzle the press, just because they ask awkward questions.

[barney]

We ..... ? .... can do bugger all about it Frank.

You seem to be conflating democracy with opposition scrutiny.

We’ve had the democracy and we lost badly.

A strong opposition should be able to, in theory, hold the government to account.
At the moment we have no opposition and even when we do, due to numbers, they will have next to zero impact.

We are stuck with this situation for at least five years and maybe more.
Don’t make yourself ill over it because there’s nothing we can do.
Democracy has spoken.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I'm already fed up with speculation, leaks and inaccurate reporting.

I'd much rather watch and wait and see what the negotiations actually produce than dwell on speculation on the media or this forum.

They and we know stuff all other than what the government and the EU choose to leak, and even that is iffy. They're both posturing.

We've done the democracy bit. Like it or not under the rules set out we had a referendum and the leave vote was bigger. Never mind those still wittering that the majority didn't vote for leaving, because those who couldn't be bothered were actually on their side.

Then, after months of various parties trying to derail the process, we had an election which Boris won decisively, again under the current rules of elections in the UK, under the slogan "Get Brexit Done". That couldn't be clearer. Again if those who couldn't be bothered to vote don't like the result, tough. Learn your lesson and get off your backside next time.

So now it is happening. The first stage has happened. Surely what we all want is a good result from the next phase, the negotiations about our future relationship and trade. It really is about time everyone put their efforts and thoughts towards that goal.

[towny44]

I am not certain why this should be considered undemocratic, AFAIK Downing street have not stopped the media from reporting whatever they want. All that seems to be happening is that the press will have to wait for the government to issue a statement before they can start ripping it to pieces. This might be less fun for them but it's hardly 3rd Reich or Soviet muzzling of the press.

[Onelife]

The way l see things is that we ALL have a vested interest in making Brexit work and to this end l can't see anything wrong with selective briefing. We need to be talking our country up rather than giving a few headline grabbing journalists the opportunity to dumb down our countries/governments achievements at every opportunity.

The term "freedom of the press" is all but a guise to write headline grabbing claptrap and has distanced it's self from what was once the corner Stone of democracy.

It isn't about talking the country up, or down. It isn't about Brexit. It is about democracy, and above all truth. I am frequently hearing on this forum about the democratic vote. You cant suspend democracy, and it must be as rigidly adhered to after the event, as it was before. We know in hindsight how right Dr David Kelly was about WMD, and how he was pilloried by Tony Blair and the unelected Alistair Campbell. The press asked the questions, if we had waited for the opposition to do anything, we would have waited in vain.

We surely cant allow the unelected Cummings to control BoJo and the sensible Tories, to the point where we are trying to muzzle the press, just because they ask awkward questions.

I don't think it's a case of blanking out awkward questions it's just a case of getting positive news out before the doom mongers put their twist on things.
Those papers/media that are getting 'so called preferential media advatages' will still ask awkward questions but in a more constructive way than those who use such opportunities to write inaccurate, headline grabbing propaganda as witnessed over the past three years.

[Onelife]

Oop's.......... cut and pasted my previous post before reading towny's.

[Frank Manning]

In this divisive culture, one man's headline grabbing propaganda is another man's truth. But heyho one can live in hope.

[barney]

I read many periodicals Frank and can 100% assure you that they all have both political and confirmation bias.

[Gill W]

I read many periodicals Frank and can 100% assure you that they all have both political and confirmation bias.

As does each and every one of us

[Mervyn and Trish]

I read many periodicals Frank and can 100% assure you that they all have both political and confirmation bias.

As does each and every one of us

Which is why I believe we should wait and see.