Life After Brexit

[Gill W]

Are none of you concerned that journalists are being banned from No10 briefings? Johnson does not like scrutiny or challenge? This sounds somewhat like 1930s 3rd Reich behaviour. Never mind eh? We won! "What is it about you lost that you cant understand."

I am certainly very concerned.

I would think most people are.

In order to reflect on this, I think we should step back from Brexit for a moment.

I can see a lot of people on this forum are shrugging their shoulders or even supporting the actions of 'No 10' yesterday.

This has set a precedent. In future, will only journalists who are known to be favourable to government policy on the issue under discussion to be invited to press briefings? e.g. terrorism, climate change, NHS, HS2, immigration, and so on.

This smacks of early stages of an attempt to control the media. Frank is absolutely spot on to draw a parallel with 1930's Germany, Media control is one of the characteristics of fascism. There are others, and it doesn't take too make imagination to see an element of these various charactistics in today's situation. (before anyone goes up in arms, I'm not suggesting we are headed for a fascist state, so keep your wigs on, guys!)

If people are ok with what happened yesterday then they can't really complain, when one day, media scrutiny is muzzled on a subject they feel passionately about.

[Gill W]

I read many periodicals Frank and can 100% assure you that they all have both political and confirmation bias.

As does each and every one of us

Which is why I believe we should wait and see.

I agree we can only wait and see, but I think we should be able to talk about events as they unfold, if we so wish

[Manoverboard]

As does each and every one of us

Which is why I believe we should wait and see.

I agree we can only wait and see, but I think we should be able to talk about events as they unfold, if we so wish

Indeed so but I am not entirely sure that comments such as " Also, no comment has been made about Johnson’s latest ramblings and bluster." will achieve anything other creating bad feeling among those who may be supportive of Boris's efforts …. or lack thereof.

[towny44]

As does each and every one of us

Which is why I believe we should wait and see.

I agree we can only wait and see, but I think we should be able to talk about events as they unfold, if we so wish

I dont believe that anyone is preventing a forum member on here, or a newspaper journalist from commenting about any government decisions, as they see fit.
Whether Downing street denying certain journalists from attending briefings will have a positive or negative effect on the Govt. I dont know, but its hardly fascist or communist either.

[Gill W]

Which is why I believe we should wait and see.

I agree we can only wait and see, but I think we should be able to talk about events as they unfold, if we so wish

Indeed so but I am not entirely sure that comments such as " Also, no comment has been made about Johnson’s latest ramblings and bluster." will achieve anything other creating bad feeling among those who may be supportive of Boris's efforts …. or lack thereof.

As I’ve said numerous times, most of the language that has been used/still being used by those supportive of Johnson has achieved nothing other than create bad feeling amongst those who have concerns about what he is doing. But it’s never stopped anyone.

I said a week or so ago that ‘moving on’ on this forum means people who were previously leavers will carry on exactly as before and people who were Remainers would preferably shut up.

If everyone else isn’t willing to change, why would you single me out for comment? Especially when I’ve toned down a lot of what I would like to say

[Onelife]

Five Core Principles of Journalism...

1. Truth and Accuracy
2. Independence
3. Fairness and Impartiality
4. Humanity
5. Accountability

I think most of us would struggle to find one of the above which apply to today's Journalism.

Until they can adhere to their own core principles why should anyone care about them bleating it's not fair?

[Mervyn and Trish]

As does each and every one of us

Which is why I believe we should wait and see.

I agree we can only wait and see, but I think we should be able to talk about events as they unfold, if we so wish

But nothing has unfolded yet. It's all speculation and hype. Like the Nissan thing. They've not actually done anything other than prepare for different scenarios.. But that's already been interpreted as many different ways as there are news outlets.

And as for leavers versus remainers. However we voted we're now all leavers. So it truly is time to move on.

[Manoverboard]

If everyone else isn’t willing to change, why would you single me out for comment? Especially when I’ve toned down a lot of what I would like to say

I have personally witnessed a change regarding the ex Brexiteers comments but less so with your good self and probably Frank.

This I can fully accept and understand given your previous strong convictions that to remain in the EU was of paramount importance. However I sense that you are still inwardly angry about the outcome and that your present inclination is to pick on the person ( s ) who you feel are responsible for your disappointment.

If I am wrong about that then I apologise but I ask you to accept that my comment was intended to guide rather than to criticise.

[Gill W]

Which is why I believe we should wait and see.

I agree we can only wait and see, but I think we should be able to talk about events as they unfold, if we so wish

But nothing has unfolded yet. It's all speculation and hype. Like the Nissan thing. They've not actually done anything other than prepare for different scenarios.. But that's already been interpreted as many different ways as there are news outlets.

And as for leavers versus remainers. However we voted we're now all leavers. So it truly is time to move on.

I didn’t bring the Nissan thing up.


Yes it’s time to move on, so we don’t need further labelling.

[oldbluefox]

You are right Mob.
I posted one word and a link to the article, deliberately chosen from The Guardian. The link could have come from a whole host of other newspapers all saying much the same. I offered no comment other than 'Interesting'.
The response? "It was a huge news day yesterday, ignored by the forum, who instead latch on to an inaccurate piece about Nissan because they like the narrative".
Are we really serious about moving on if this is an example of how we deal with any developments after Brexit?

[Mervyn and Trish]

I didn’t bring the Nissan thing up.

I know you didn't. I wasn't getting at you so please don't be so defensive.

It was an example of all the speculative nonsense that's going on.

[Gill W]

If everyone else isn’t willing to change, why would you single me out for comment? Especially when I’ve toned down a lot of what I would like to say

I have personally witnessed a change regarding the ex Brexiteers comments but less so with your good self and probably Frank.

This I can fully accept and understand given your previous strong convictions that to remain in the EU was of paramount importance. However I sense that you are still inwardly angry about the outcome and that your present inclination is to pick on the person ( s ) who you feel are responsible for your disappointment.

If I am wrong about that then I apologise but I ask you to accept that my comment was intended to guide rather than to criticise.

I’m a bit speechless, to be honest.

If I could be bothered, I could compile quite a lengthy list of comments from various people in the last week which aren’t exactly moving on. But I won’t as I can’t be bothered and it’s not in the spirit of moving on.

I’ve said several times that I’ve accepted where we are, so you are way off the mark about me being angry about the outcome (inwardly or otherwise). As usual, the only thing that I’m mildly miffed about is the tone of some people’s language (which as you say, has improved, but not to the extent of its complete disappearance). I think due to your personal views, you may be less sensitive to these comments that may cause concern to me, and possibly Frank

I take complete exception to your assertion that I’m picking on people. That is an outrageous thing to even suggest. I have been bullied in real life, so I would never pick on anybody whether online or off line. I would like to suggest that you take that comment back.

I don’t think you’d attempt to ‘guide’ any body else on this forum in the way you have spoken to me, so it could be interpreted you attempting to patronise me. However, you can only patronise someone with their permission, and I will not be patronised.

You were very wrong about what you have said, and I accept your apology.

[Gill W]

You are right Mob.
I posted one word and a link to the article, deliberately chosen from The Guardian. The link could have come from a whole host of other newspapers all saying much the same. I offered no comment other than 'Interesting'.
The response? "It was a huge news day yesterday, ignored by the forum, who instead latch on to an inaccurate piece about Nissan because they like the narrative".
Are we really serious about moving on if this is an example of how we deal with any developments after Brexit?

I’m sorry if I upset you. It wasn’t specifically directed you, but just a comment that, if there were 9 news stories that said things weren’t going well, and one that said there’s some brilliant news - the 9 would be ignored and the tenth would be seized upon eagerly.

I hope you accept this apology

[oldbluefox]

I accept your apology Gill. I don't expect you or Frank will ever agree but we should be able to debate in an amicable manner. I would also suggest that if there were 9 news stories saying much the same sort of thing it is more than likely they are pretty well on the button. Whichever way the situation develops (and I am optimistic) it is no longer a matter of triumphalism of one side over the other. Agree?

[Gill W]

It should never have been about triumphalism, so I can agree with that.

I’ve only ever wanted what is best for the UK - for me, it’s never been about ‘winning’.

Anyway, happy to move on..

[towny44]

It should never have been about triumphalism, so I can agree with that.

I’ve only ever wanted what is best for the UK - for me, it’s never been about ‘winning’.

Anyway, happy to move on..

I doubt that you can Gill, as long as you continue to agree with the EU's negotiating position at the expense of the UK's, then how can you consider that is any form of reconciliation?

[Gill W]

It should never have been about triumphalism, so I can agree with that.

I’ve only ever wanted what is best for the UK - for me, it’s never been about ‘winning’.

Anyway, happy to move on..

I doubt that you can Gill, as long as you continue to agree with the EU's negotiating position at the expense of the UK's, then how can you consider that is any form of reconciliation?

Seriously, stop stirring. I’m not going to reply to that.

[Frank Manning]

Well, I see a lot of cages have been rattled while I was not looking at this thread. Please dont put words into my mouth or attribute things to me which you cant possibly know. Yes I agree with Gill, on most of these points, and yes I will continue to hold my personal opinions. Opinions are exactly that, and a vote one way or the other wont change them. If, and it's a big if, Johnson and the brexiteer MPs are proved to be conclusively right, I might change my opinion. However as things stand I am a long way from being convinced. The country is still severely divided, and to some extent the language and behaviour of the far right media have exacerbated that. A lot of it is also the fault of the Momentum cabal in the Labour party, who still dont 'get it' and are totally out of touch with reality. A Labour party with a properly thought through stance on Brexit and a strong intelligent leadership might have won more seats and been an effective opposition. (Even while backing Brexit), and as such might have provided a channel for reconciliation. No I am not a Labour supporter. I am a disaffected centrist Tory. Cant be bothered today any more.

[Manoverboard]

I’ve said several times that I’ve accepted where we are ….

I've read the words but some of your postings do not, for me, support the statement .…

It was, sadly, somewhat predictable that my comments would be twisted and not be accepted in the spirit intended.

In future I will mind my own business and try to ignore any nit-picking / point scoring / negative comments should they arise … as others have done.

[Gill W]

I’ve said several times that I’ve accepted where we are ….

I've read the words but some of your postings do not, for me, support the statement .…

It was, sadly, somewhat predictable that my comments would be twisted and not be accepted in the spirit intended.

In future I will mind my own business and try to ignore any nit-picking / point scoring / negative comments should they arise … as others have done.

After your rather astonishing post yesterday, I thought we had cleared the air, and I had accepted your apology and we were going to move forward and not dwell on it.

Feel free to ignore me, and I will ignore you. Sorry it’s ended up like this.

[david63]

Heard on the news tonight that the "EU" are insisting that despite the current Coronavirus issue that these must still be freedom of movement of peoplr and transport.

Are they from the same planet? - no you do not need to answer!

[towny44]

Heard on the news tonight that the "EU" are insisting that despite the current Coronavirus issue that these must still be freedom of movement of peoplr and transport.

Are they from the same planet? - no you do not need to answer!

Have they not heard that Germany has re-introduced checks at its borders?

[Gill W]

The irony is, even though we have all that sovereignty and control, there’s no suggestion we are anywhere near shutting our borders or restricting people coming to the U.K.!

[towny44]

The irony is, even though we have all that sovereignty and control, there’s no suggestion we are anywhere near shutting our borders or restricting people coming to the U.K.!

A valid point Gill, but as other people have been pointing out all day, the horse has bolted so its no gooid shutting the stable door.

[oldbluefox]

90413731_2779939178787450_6002022375875411968_n.jpg