Current Affairs

[Mervyn and Trish]

And yes Gill there are now more than 19. But still not the huge numbers one might fear. Even at 41 if the death rate was the same as the overall population there would have to be only 240,000 in the NHS front line. That's fewer than 80 decent sized hospitals. And less than one sixth of the NHS workforce. Again I repeat. I am not diminishing the heroism of the NHS or the challenges they face. I'm challenging the left wingers using them as a crude propaganda tool.

[Quizzical Bob]

Add to that we are a poorly disciplined nation. I've not seen many pictures of Italians sunbathing in parks or Spaniards having barbeque parties.

Nothing wrong with sunbathing. No sunbather is ever going to catch a disease or infect anybody else.

Barbecue parties however are much more serious. What is wrong with these people?

[oldbluefox]

Ever thought of getting a job as a BBC news reporter Merv? Your objective analysis of the situation could be what we are all looking for. Sadly the current crop are failing in this department.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Nothing wrong with sunbathing. No sunbather is ever going to catch a disease or infect anybody else.

Well thanks for that tip. We should all pop out and sunbathe in the park tomorrow. Who needs a vaccine eh?

[Gill W]

... and I get the sense that news reports seem to be playing it down.

Really .... I think that the opposite is true.

10000 people have died in hospital alone. We don’t even know how many are dying in care homes and in the community.

This is loss of life on a scale we couldn’t have imagined a few months ago.

It’s not something that can be reported in a few dry words and then move on

[Quizzical Bob]

Nothing wrong with sunbathing. No sunbather is ever going to catch a disease or infect anybody else.

Well thanks for that tip. We should all pop out and sunbathe in the park tomorrow. Who needs a vaccine eh?

It would be safer than staying at home. Every year 6000 people die in domestic accidents and there are 2.7 million visits to A&E.

[Gill W]

... and I get the sense that news reports seem to be playing it down.

Really .... I think that the opposite is true.

Actually I agree with mob Gill.. Every amateur strategist is clammering in the media for attention. Every newspaper is searching for a seemingly unconsidered statistic to use to support a sensationalistic headline. Its a pandemic, there is no superhuman man or woman who can solve it in a stroke, and running around like headless chickens is the last thing we need. Stop playing politics and push the essential message, stay home, and let the professionals do their jobs.

Nobody is expecting any one person to solve this.

There is loss of life on a massive scale and we need honest, truthful reporting. We’re not getting it, for many reasons, some of which have already been touched on in this thread. However, I believe the public needs to know what’s going on.

The case of Boris Johnson is an example. Last week, we were told he was in hospital as a precaution, and he was in good spirits. Now we’re being told he was at death’s door. We need the truth, without spin, in a timely manner

[Stephen]

Well said Boris.


Coronavirus: UK enters fourth week of lockdown ahead of review https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52266314

[Kendhni]

Worrying article on the newsfeeds this morning. People that have 'recovered' from coronavirus may be showing reinfection. If true, this could mean that those that have had it are not immune and there is no 'herd' immunity.

[towny44]

Worrying article on the newsfeeds this morning. People that have 'recovered' from coronavirus may be showing reinfection. If true, this could mean that those that have had it are not immune and there is no 'herd' immunity.

I don't know what a newsfeed is, but I imagine one with dire consequences would be much more likely to be issued than one with no news is good news.
The internet is a wonderful tool that allows easy and cheap worldwide communication, but these same characteristics allow unverified news items to become widespread and accepted as proven fact, just because they are so widespread.

[david63]

Worrying article on the newsfeeds this morning. People that have 'recovered' from coronavirus may be showing reinfection. If true, this could mean that those that have had it are not immune and there is no 'herd' immunity.

That has been suggested for some time but from what I can recall there was insufficient evidence to draw any conclusion.

As for "herd" immunity that is so far off that it is irrelevant. Herd immunity needs around 80% of the population to have had the virus and the last figures I saw estimated that it was less than 5%

10000 people have died in hospital alone.

As I have said before this needs putting in context (which nobody is doing) There are on average 1,400 deaths a week in this country so the 10,000 that have died in the last month is less than one week's "normal" death rate. Nobody is saying whether this is an additional 10,000 or a crossover from other deaths and that some (many?) might well have died anyway.

The media seem to think that just throwing random figures around will prove something - but I am not sure what it is.

There is a saying that statistics can prove anything if presented the right way.

[Jonty S1]

Methinks there may be a typo in the above. 500,000 a year is 1,400 a day!

[Mervyn and Trish]

To be fair to the media they are not the ones throwing random figures around. They are merely reporting what is announced by the government.

What we know for sure is a disease we can't cure is killing people and is putting the NHS under huge stress. The actual numbers are a bit irrelevant.

[Kendhni]

Worrying article on the newsfeeds this morning. People that have 'recovered' from coronavirus may be showing reinfection. If true, this could mean that those that have had it are not immune and there is no 'herd' immunity.

I don't know what a newsfeed is, but I imagine one with dire consequences would be much more likely to be issued than one with no news is good news.
The internet is a wonderful tool that allows easy and cheap worldwide communication, but these same characteristics allow unverified news items to become widespread and accepted as proven fact, just because they are so widespread.

The story was carried on both my Reuters and Bloomberg newsfeeds. I also see the story reported on the Global and Fortune websites.
That is why I did not give any link, so that others can go and look and judge if they consider it to be reliable or not.

[Manoverboard]

... and I get the sense that news reports seem to be playing it down.

Really .... I think that the opposite is true.

10000 people have died in hospital alone. We don’t even know how many are dying in care homes and in the community.

This is loss of life on a scale we couldn’t have imagined a few months ago.

It’s not something that can be reported in a few dry words and then move on

I refer you to Frank's posting ~ #2348

[Stephen]

Watched a lady on the news a short while ago telling her story about her dad who is in hospital with Covid-19 and that they can do no more for him and that they are just waiting for the call from the hospital to say he has died. One of thousands I know, but to watch and hear her had me welling up. So sad.

[Kendhni]

Watched a lady on the news a short while ago telling her story about her dad who is in hospital with Covid-19 and that they can do no more for him and that they are just waiting for the call from the hospital to say he has died. One of thousands I know, but to watch and hear her had me welling up. So sad.

Awful!!!
I came across a story this morning, Ecuador I think, that showed children playing with dead bodies in the streets, COVID victims just lying dead on the floor of their relatives houses .... simply because they could not get the bodies lifted.

[Mervyn and Trish]

A thought on the numbers game. We all realise the death toll is higher than the published numbers. As is the number of people infected because minor symptoms simply don't get reported to the authorities. The only accurate figure is probably the number of people in intensive care. But what matters is they are consistent in the way they report it as it is the trend that will tell us when we are beginning to beat this thing.

[Quizzical Bob]

A thought on the numbers game. We all realise the death toll is higher than the published numbers. As is the number of people infected because minor symptoms simply don't get reported to the authorities. The only accurate figure is probably the number of people in intensive care. But what matters is they are consistent in the way they report it as it is the trend that will tell us when we are beginning to beat this thing.

The number of infections and the number of deaths are much higher than the official figures. They are only testing those who go to hospital, unless you are Prince Charles or a politician, and they are only sending anyone to hospital if they are extremely serious and if there is any room for them.

Effectively the intensive care beds are being continuously kept topped up within their capacity. Without widespread testing we have no way of monitoring the progress of this epidemic. This goes against all established methods of disease prevention and control.

Lockdown should have started to or three weeks earlier and as for allowing Cheltenham to go ahead words fail me.

Not to mention these Stereophonics concertsm

Fri 28 Feb – Sheffield Flydsa Arena
Sat 29 Feb – Birmingham Arena
Mon 2 March – Brighton Centre
Tues 3 March – Bournemouth Intl Centre
Fri 6 March – London The O2
Sat 7 March Nottingham – Motorpoint Arena
Mon 9 March – Newcastle Utilita Arena
Tues 10 March – Aberdeen P&J Live Arena
Wed 11 March – Glasgow The SSE Hydro
Fri 13 March – Manchester Arena
Sat 14 March – Cardiff Motorpoint Arena
Sun 15 March – Cardiff Motorpoint Arena

[Mervyn and Trish]

The biggest problem for me is conflicting advice. Quite apart from the self appointed experts, some of whom have no knowledge at all and some making points on a political basis, or based solely on hindsight, we have respected figures who can't agree.

On one hand we now have one WHO figure saying we'll all have to wear masks, while that is not the overall WHO advice. Other scientists say masks are a waste of time for the general public because we won't use them properly (and I've certainly witnessed that - people pulling them down round their neck, then replacing them, potentially transferring virus from the outside to the inside and vice versa) and they'll give a false sense of security. That is quite apart from the fact we don't have enough and what we do should be directed to the NHS and carers.

We get those saying we didn't lock down early enough. Some saying people ignoring the lock down rules isn't a problem. Some saying both alternately. We get those saying lockdown needs to end fast to save the economy. Others say lives must come first and it needs to continue irrespective of the economic cost.

We have one widely reported scientist saying we may be the worst case in Europe. Some leap on that to blame the government. Others say that is no surprise when we have one of the largest populations in Europe and certainly the most densely packed outside Belgium. And this virus just loves a densely packed population. Hence why our worst figures are in our biggest cities.

We have people saying the only way out will be herd immunity and others saying that won't work and will just sacrifice large numbers of people.

We have those decrying the government for not shutting parliament earlier and others saying that shutting it at all is a democratic outrage.

We get opposition politicians sowing doubts while offering nothing constructive. This is no time for petty party politics.

There is no point whatever in looking back and saying what we should have done. That's too late. Those with better ideas should have spoken up at the time.

The only way we will get through this at all is a common message and pulling together. Sowing dissent will kill people. The experts and politicians should have their debates behind closed doors and only make pronouncements when they have an agreed line they can ask us to follow. Those with no knowledge but full of opinions should simply be quiet.

[Manoverboard]

That's no way to talk to Quizzical Bob .... is it ?

[Mervyn and Trish]

That's no way to talk to Quizzical Bob .... is it ?

I don't think I referenced any individual. Are you suggesting QB fits any of those groups that concern me?

[Manoverboard]

That's no way to talk to Quizzical Bob .... is it ?

I don't think I referenced any individual. Are you suggesting QB fits any of those groups that concern me?

I've no idea but I may read it again .... purely for clarification you understand

[johnds]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing much employed by politicians, journalists and self appointed experts

[Gill W]

Worrying article on the newsfeeds this morning. People that have 'recovered' from coronavirus may be showing reinfection. If true, this could mean that those that have had it are not immune and there is no 'herd' immunity.

I have seen a few articles from respectable sources that have mentioned this.

At this point,I'm just noting this information - C19 is so new, nobody yet knows how it truly works.

I do find it helps to read from a wide range of trusted sources to get an overview of what is being said.

One thing that has struck me, over the last few days, is that people have spend a lot of time complaining about the MSM (Main Stream Media), yet seem to be unwilling to look elsewhere to dig deeper.