Current Affairs

[barney]

The internet is rife with obscure websites telling any poor soul who’ll listen why they are the ones to be believed.
This particular one gives a timeline of what has happened.
Any fool can do that.
Just listen to James O’Brien.
Millions of opinions, no answers.

Like Brexit, only time will tell.

[Gill W]

Does that figure include those who died of CV19 as opposed to those who died with CV19? Listening to a medic today on the radio he was saying that many of those who have died in care homes would have sadly died this year anyway. CV19 may merely speed their demise. It depends how the doctor records the reason for death whether it is included in returns for CV19 purposes. Even the data is not clear.

.

We were thinking the same OBF.
Everyone in a care home is in there because they are poorly.
If they were 100% fit, they would not be in there.
MiL is in a dementia care home in Exeter.
She’s pretty fragile as are nearly all residents.
Should Covid 19 hit, their demise would be accelerated, but in reality, they are all on their last legs.

Horrible way to die though.

My mum spent the last couple of years in a care home. I’m relieved that she’s already dead, having slipped away peacefully. I would have been extremely worried about her in a care home right now, especially as I wouldn’t be able to visit her

[Quizzical Bob]

If we wait to find out the best response then we shall be criminally late.

There’s quite a thorough summary here:
https://bylinetimes.com/2020/04/11/a-na ... us-crisis/

QB, which part of "we are following the guidance given by the scientific experts" are you not following? Maybe you prefer some other methods, perhaps a crystal ball, or Tarot cards or maybe we should organise a seance.
We all know you hate Boris and the Tories, but they have taken decisive action on providing financial assistance, and they are following the guidance from SAGE, if you prefer an alternative method then please let us have your recommendations and the experts who you have selected to provide your guidance.

Towny, don’t be so snidy, it’s beneath you.

The government chooses which ‘scientific experts’ to follow and they have followed the wrong ones. If you were to read through that link that I supplied you would see the wide disagreement that existed and still does exist to some extent in the UK. We were warned but chose to ignore it. There were far more ‘experts’ advising us to lockdown than there were advising the government, have a look through that timeline. Other countries were shaking their heads in disbelief.

We were weeks behind other similar countries in implementing our minimal lockdown and we shall pay the price for it.

I hate Johnson for the charlatan that he is and I hate the Tories for the narrow minded bigots that they have become, and I had voted Conservative for almost all my adult life. I know that it must come as a great disappointment to find that these heroes that you voted for have turned out to be so inept but if you vote for incompetents you will get incompetence.

This financial assistance will be very welcome when we eventually receive it but that is still weeks away. Many businesses that have closed their doors will not be opening them again.

[Quizzical Bob]

The internet is rife with obscure websites telling any poor soul who’ll listen why they are the ones to be believed.
This particular one gives a timeline of what has happened.
Any fool can do that.
Just listen to James O’Brien.
Millions of opinions, no answers.

Like Brexit, only time will tell.

Good grief.

There is none so blind as he who will not see. This is not just one particular ‘opinion’.

[towny44]

If we wait to find out the best response then we shall be criminally late.

There’s quite a thorough summary here:
https://bylinetimes.com/2020/04/11/a-na ... us-crisis/

QB, which part of "we are following the guidance given by the scientific experts" are you not following? Maybe you prefer some other methods, perhaps a crystal ball, or Tarot cards or maybe we should organise a seance.
We all know you hate Boris and the Tories, but they have taken decisive action on providing financial assistance, and they are following the guidance from SAGE, if you prefer an alternative method then please let us have your recommendations and the experts who you have selected to provide your guidance.

Towny, don’t be so snidy, it’s beneath you.

The government chooses which ‘scientific experts’ to follow and they have followed the wrong ones. If you were to read through that link that I supplied you would see the wide disagreement that existed and still does exist to some extent in the UK. We were warned but chose to ignore it. There were far more ‘experts’ advising us to lockdown than there were advising the government, have a look through that timeline. Other countries were shaking their heads in disbelief.

We were weeks behind other similar countries in implementing our minimal lockdown and we shall pay the price for it.

I hate Johnson for the charlatan that he is and I hate the Tories for the narrow minded bigots that they have become, and I had voted Conservative for almost all my adult life. I know that it must come as a great disappointment to find that these heroes that you voted for have turned out to be so inept but if you vote for incompetents you will get incompetence.

This financial assistance will be very welcome when we eventually receive it but that is still weeks away. Many businesses that have closed their doors will not be opening them again.

...and if the govt had followed your advise we would have been locked down 2 weeks earlier and even more firms would have been going bankrupt. Thank goodness you're not in charge.

[barney]

Does that figure include those who died of CV19 as opposed to those who died with CV19? Listening to a medic today on the radio he was saying that many of those who have died in care homes would have sadly died this year anyway. CV19 may merely speed their demise. It depends how the doctor records the reason for death whether it is included in returns for CV19 purposes. Even the data is not clear.

.

We were thinking the same OBF.
Everyone in a care home is in there because they are poorly.
If they were 100% fit, they would not be in there.
MiL is in a dementia care home in Exeter.
She’s pretty fragile as are nearly all residents.
Should Covid 19 hit, their demise would be accelerated, but in reality, they are all on their last legs.

Horrible way to die though.

My mum spent the last couple of years in a care home. I’m relieved that she’s already dead, having slipped away peacefully. I would have been extremely worried about her in a care home right now, especially as I wouldn’t be able to visit her

It is horrible isn't it Gill.

We visited regularly, more for us than for mum.
She'd forgotten we'd been there before we'd left the drive.
On one occasion, not too long ago, she went to the loo during a visit and on her return, said "ohh, what are you doing here"
She doesn't have the cognitive ability to hold a phone conversation, so it will be some time before we can get to see her again.
On the positive side, she hasn't got a blooming clue what's going on.

[Mervyn and Trish]

My MIL was in a care home for a number of years with worsening with dementia. It was heart rending to watch her decline. And from the other perspective our daughter works in a care home and tells us that some residents complain that no-one ever visits them, despite relatives being there almost every day. It is so sad and made worse at this dreadful time.

[Mervyn and Trish]

There’s quite a thorough summary here:
https://bylinetimes.com/2020/04/11/a-na ... us-crisis/

Well a quick look at that and a trawl through its other articles reveals what a wonderfully impartial publication it is.

It follows on really from our discussion about Twitter and how the majority follow others who reinforce their own views. Exactly the same applies to our choice of news sources.

We all make our own choices and are entitled to do so.

But we are misguided if we present our choices as authoritative. That link has the same credibility as someone else choosing to quote the Telegraph or the Mail.

I do not challenge your right to your views QB. In fact I would defend your right to hold your opinions.

But that is what they are. Opinions.

I do challenge your right to present your views as fact and treat everyone else as deluded. As you did during the Brexit debate. As you do now.

[oldbluefox]

Horrible way to die though.

I agree with you wholeheartedly Gill. I feel very sorry for the relatives and for those in the care homes and of course the patients who may not understand what is happening.

My own circumstances were similar to those of today. I saw my mother at Christmas 2 years ago shortly before I went into hospital for open heart surgery. Whilst in hospital my mother took a turn for the worst and clung on for a few weeks after that. Unfortunately I was not strong enough to make the journey from home to Leicester to be with her and I never saw her again. Sometimes circumstances conspire against you and there is nothing you can do about it.

[Stephen]

Our next door neighbours step father passed away last week from Covid-19 and her mother is about to die as well with the same symptoms, but is clinging on even though she has refused food and water for six days. Very sad times.

[johnds]

QB

I take it that you would have preferred the only practical alternative to the present government - Corbyn

Starmer has appeared to late on the scene and has already shown his devious nature
Starmer - The man who declined to prosecute Jimmy Saville

[Mervyn and Trish]

So far Starmer's contributiuon appears to be to demand an exit strategy be published now.

Since we have yet passed the peak that is incredibly hard to do and would be meaningless. Presumably he is only asking in the hope that he can later say "you promised it would be over by (insert random date), you lied".

[Manoverboard]

He would surely be better served using his influence to acquire more masks rather than points.

[Gill W]

It is horrible isn't it Gill.

We visited regularly, more for us than for mum.
She'd forgotten we'd been there before we'd left the drive.
On one occasion, not too long ago, she went to the loo during a visit and on her return, said "ohh, what are you doing here"
She doesn't have the cognitive ability to hold a phone conversation, so it will be some time before we can get to see her again.
On the positive side, she hasn't got a blooming clue what's going on.

Dementia is so cruel.

My mum originally went into a home for respite care when my dad was taken ill. When she went in, she seemed to forget about him quickly. He died in hospital, so I had to tell her. She looked shocked, but quickly went on to talk about something else.. So I tried again, and she looked shocked again, but went on to talk about something else. In the end I gave up, because I didn't want to keep on telling her like some awful Groundhog Day. At various times, I showed her pictures of him and talked about him, but she didn't seem to remember him at all. She seemed to forget that I was her daughter, and thought I was her sister. After that, I not sure she quite knew who I was, but I took heart from the fact that she always recognised me, and knew I was someone special to her.

It's so sad for everyone involved. Hope your MIL stays safe.

[Gill W]

So far Starmer's contributiuon appears to be to demand an exit strategy be published now.

Since we have yet passed the peak that is incredibly hard to do and would be meaningless. Presumably he is only asking in the hope that he can later say "you promised it would be over by (insert random date), you lied".

It's definitely too early to be talking about dates, but I think it's reasonable to be asking about what the strategy might be.

This government is reactive. People have been talking about care homes for several days, and it's only today that some action has been taken. I believe there should be some sort of narrative about how we'll eventually ease the lockdown as government are currently reacting to events, and don't appear to be proactively planning ahead. It's possible they may be doing this behind the scenes, but it would give people some confidence if they knew that a proper plan was in existence.

[Mervyn and Trish]

So far Starmer's contributiuon appears to be to demand an exit strategy be published now.

Since we have yet passed the peak that is incredibly hard to do and would be meaningless. Presumably he is only asking in the hope that he can later say "you promised it would be over by (insert random date), you lied".

It's definitely too early to be talking about dates, but I think it's reasonable to be asking about what the strategy might be.

This government is reactive. People have been talking about care homes for several days, and it's only today that some action has been taken. I believe there should be some sort of narrative about how we'll eventually ease the lockdown as government are currently reacting to events, and don't appear to be proactively planning ahead. It's possible they may be doing this behind the scenes, but it would give people some confidence if they knew that a proper plan was in existence.

Again Gill that is second hand information from sources with an agenda. It may be true that some homes have been ill prepared, through their own fault or governments, but the one where my daughter works has had PPE for some time.

As for planning and giving out information we've seen what happens. As soon as the government announces anything, if it's as much as 99% prepared the opposition will latch onto the 1% deficit. I think they're wise to wait until there is something definite to say and that may be some time off yet. They've said consistently they're following medical and scientific advice and so far neither medics nor scientists know the way out. So how can politicians? Unless you're Keir Starmer of course. And he has offered nothing positive to the debate.

[Mervyn and Trish]

To make my point.

"Mass testing and then tracing is likely to be amongst the options for ending the lockdown," Sir Keir said.
"If that is right we need the government to say so because decisions need to be taken now to make sure that the number of tests that are needed and that the arrangements are in place so they can be implemented at the relevant time."
He said that he believed "in principle" schools should be amongst the first institutions to restart following easing of lockdown measures.
In an interview with BBC Breakfast, however, Sir Keir said it would be "wrong" to put a time on when schools should reopen.
"Until we know the curve is flattening, then I'm afraid we have to stay in the conditions we're in," he said

So according to him, testing and tracing "is likely" to be amongst the options. He adds "if that's right". So he's not sure either.

He says decisions on how to deliver the number of tests needed need to be taken now. But offers no ideas on how that could be done. The government have already promised more tests. The opposition contribution is to say they can't possibly deliver, but no suggestions to help. Just waiting to jeer at failure.

He said he believed schools should be amongst the first institutions to restart. But it would be wrong to put a time on it. So nothing concrete there then.

So in essence he wants the government to make firm pledges on things he's not sure about either. So he can say "you got it wrong".

It is a 100% repeat of the Labour pledge to oppose the Brexit deal, whatever it would be, before they knew what it was. No surprise that Labour have lost four general elections in a row.

So please someone, prove me wrong. You tell me what should be in the plan.

For me it's simple. Open schools. Open business. Open shops. Let us all go out and hug one another. Let us all go on holiday again. The only things I'm not certain of are the order and the timescale. But I'm sure Sir Clever Cloggs knows.

[Manoverboard]

The last thing we need is an exit plan nor some trouble maker suggesting that we do ... we haven't even reached the peak of this pandemic yet for goodness sakes. People do not need to start thinking it'll all be over by the end of the month.

[Gill W]

Again Gill that is second hand information from sources with an agenda. It may be true that some homes have been ill prepared, through their own fault or governments, but the one where my daughter works has had PPE for some time.

What I was referring to was the news that everyone going from hospital into social care will be tested and isolated whilst the result comes through. That came directly from Matt Hancock

So please someone, prove me wrong. You tell me what should be in the plan.

I don't think any of us know - we are relying on the government. As they have often been behind the curve and slow to react, they need prompting - that's why questions need to be asked. I'm not sure why Keir Starmer is expected to have all the answers - these plans are made collectively.

At this stage, all I want is competence. I haven't got any truck with left or right political point scoring. I want to feel confident that my leaders have a plan for the way forward. at this point I do not have this confidence.

[Gill W]

The last thing we need is an exit plan nor some trouble maker suggesting that we do ... we haven't even reached the peak of this pandemic yet for goodness sakes. People do not need to start thinking it'll all be over by the end of the month.

What do we do ? Blindly bumble along with no plan and then make it up on the fly at some point in the future? That doesn't sound like a good idea at all.

No sure why having a plan would make people think it'll be over by the the end of the month - that would only occur if what was happening wasn't communicated properly.

[Manoverboard]

... I want to feel confident that my leaders have a plan for the way forward. at this point I do not have this confidence.

They will have an ongoing strategic plan as per any executive structure and as sure as eggs are eggs they won't be telling you or the Social Media Channels what the content is until the position is reached when they think that you actually need to know.

You seem to be looking for a comfort blanket but that's not the way it works, perhaps the inexperience of the Labour Leader is also showing through.

[barney]

I think we all know the response to a plan that doesn’t come to fruition.
Anyone’s remember the Leave campaign promise to spend £350 million a week on the NHS.
Of course the reality is that it was a suggestion not a promise, but that didn’t deter the Euro zealots and their fake news reporting.

This government need to be really careful with their words.
They are often twisted to suit a particular agenda

[Ray B]

A better class of questions by some today, kept my attention, nice to see a regional newspaper get a chance among the heavy weights the EDP (bit biased there) but over all in my view a better listen.

[Frank Manning]

I think we all know the response to a plan that doesn’t come to fruition.
Anyone’s remember the Leave campaign promise to spend £350 million a week on the NHS.
Of course the reality is that it was a suggestion not a promise, but that didn’t deter the Euro zealots and their fake news reporting.

This government need to be really careful with their words.
They are often twisted to suit a particular agenda

Come on Barney dont start on that. Brexit is over, but if one side or the other drives around in an attention seeking bus with a big vote winning slogan on the side, people have a reasonable expectation that when that side wins it will be delivered. Otherwise it is a blatant deceit.

Anyway, I often quote with tongue in cheek, my old strategy lecturer "Even a plan that is wrong, is better than having no plan at all".

[towny44]

So far Starmer's contributiuon appears to be to demand an exit strategy be published now.

Since we have yet passed the peak that is incredibly hard to do and would be meaningless. Presumably he is only asking in the hope that he can later say "you promised it would be over by (insert random date), you lied".

It's definitely too early to be talking about dates, but I think it's reasonable to be asking about what the strategy might be.

This government is reactive. People have been talking about care homes for several days, and it's only today that some action has been taken. I believe there should be some sort of narrative about how we'll eventually ease the lockdown as government are currently reacting to events, and don't appear to be proactively planning ahead. It's possible they may be doing this behind the scenes, but it would give people some confidence if they knew that a proper plan was in existence.

Gill, if the govt announced a plan to ease the lockdown, you can be sure that it would immediately be criticised and just lead to even more demands from the media to think again. So they may as well say nothing since at least the criticism is specific to one issue, rather than every single item on the plan being mailed over.