Current Affairs

[david63]

I think that a lot of the problem is that the relief measures, although were already planned, were put together very quickly and there was not enough time to look at every possible variant. In fairness the Government are constantly looking at these measures and "tweaking" them.

[Kendhni]

Boris wants (or maybe wants to start) getting the country back to work at the end of the month. That will be great news for many.

It will be interesting to see what the 'new normal' will be.

[Kendhni]

A consequence of the UK leaving the EU in January 2020

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-citi ... ronavirus/

So maybe, just maybe, the EU negotiators will now realise that things are not the same as they were.

You rock up and try to claim benefits in most EU countries and see how you get on, even before we left.

I do have a little sympathy for those who are just falling short of having UK status but they must have known the rules before they entered our milking parlour/ benefits system. If they didn’t or thought they would get around it then they only have themselves to blame. rules be the rules.

As for those who have UK status but are struggling because of poor English to navigate their way round the DWP benefits application process then they also only have themselves to blame.

A bit harsh for you Keith, ,I think these circumstances are totally unexpected, and those who were intending making the UK their home should receive exactly the same treatment as UK citizens.

I agree with you there towny. About 40% of the staff in the company I work for come from all over the world including (off the top of my head) China, India, Sri Lanka, Thailand, Germany, Ukraine, Russia, Kazakhstan, France, Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Nigeria, US, Brazil, Chile. Some have married local lads and lassies and others have brought their families over. Many are building their longterm futures in this country and should be entitled to all the same benefits as any other tax payer.

I see and hear of similar patterns throughout the IT industry (in which I work) and other disciplines including manufacturing and Healthcare.

We have to stop focusing on a small minority that appear to be benefit Seekers (and in reality do not get half of what the media often claims) and focus on the overwhelming majority that boost the economy.

[Frank Manning]

The nicest, and most coscientious nurse in the hospital ward where Sue recovered after her op was Romanian. She said to Sue "I studied hard to learn English and to get my nursing degree. Now all these people want to deport me." Actually I don't blame the majority of the people in this country. It is the rag tag sensationalist media who stir it all up. Illegal economic migrants are one thing, but that is not true Immigration.imho.

[towny44]

The nicest, and most coscientious nurse in the hospital ward where Sue recovered after her op was Romanian. She said to Sue "I studied hard to learn English and to get my nursing degree. Now all these people want to deport me." Actually I don't blame the majority of the people in this country. It is the rag tag sensationalist media who stir it all up. Illegal economic migrants are one thing, but that is not true Immigration.imho.

I agree with you Frank, those working here and intending to live here long term, or even those still contemplating whether to stay in the UK, deserve to be treated the same as UK citizens. The problem was the EU freedom of movement which allowed people to move here, or elsewhere, without any sort of job offer. I suspect that the vast majority who came here had a job offer, even if short term like fruit picking, but because EU rules allowed free movement no statistics were ever collected which allowed the media to use the total immigration stats with no reference to the fact that probably 98% plus had job offers.

[Onelife]

I do have a little sympathy for those who are just falling short of having UK status but they must have known the rules before they entered our milking parlour/ benefits system. If they didn’t or thought they would get around it then they only have themselves to blame. rules be the rules.

As for those who have UK status but are struggling because of poor English to navigate their way round the DWP benefits application process then they also only have themselves to blame.

A bit harsh for you Keith, ,I think these circumstances are totally unexpected, and those who were intending making the UK their home should receive exactly the same treatment as UK citizens.

I agree with you there towny. About 40% of the staff in the company I work for come from all over the world including (off the top of my head) China, India, Sri Lanka, Thailand, Germany, Ukraine, Russia, Kazakhstan, France, Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Nigeria, US, Brazil, Chile. Some have married local lads and lassies and others have brought their families over. Many are building their longterm futures in this country and should be entitled to all the same benefits as any other tax payer.

I see and hear of similar patterns throughout the IT industry (in which I work) and other disciplines including manufacturing and Healthcare.

We have to stop focusing on a small minority that appear to be benefit Seekers (and in reality do not get half of what the media often claims) and focus on the overwhelming majority that boost the economy.

Hi Ken,

I don’t have a problem with migrants wanting to make a long term future in our country but as is the case with most other counties migration policies there will be certain criteria that has to be met. Here in the UK it is that you have to have lived in our country for five years before UK status is considered.

There is no denying that many migrants add considerably to many aspects of UK life, including that of the economics, but there are an awful lot of migrants who are a drain on our economy....tax credits, housing benefits, child benefits, and unemployment benefits of one kind or another cost this country billions every year.

It wouldn’t be so bad if the money stayed in this country but many Eastern European migrants use the money to support their extended families back in their own countries.

Our country needs/needed migrant workers and those who come over on six month work visas are/were most welcome especially as they are prepared to cough up £400 pounds for the privilege.

Heed my words when I say there is going to a migrant backlash as a result of this economic downturn, one where UK workers will feel their futures take precedent over those who want to make new and better lives in our country.

[Manoverboard]

The fruit pickers presently in Cornwall are all British, mainly local ... not a single Romanian in sight but you are right when you imply that the Romas of that beautiful Country come here only to collect the benefits and then send it back to the shacks from wence they came. They live in absolute povity back home and it has to be seen to be believed.

[Ranchi]

As I have retired I cannot comment upon work colleagues. I can however mention my (v) elderly mother in law’s carers. Almost all of them are from outwith the U.K. They are well motivated and caring. Without these workers the care system would fold.
It’s very difficult to write about this situation without generalising but I do not see a problem with workers such as mentioned. They provide a good service and pay their taxes and buy things in local shops. I don’t use Amazon much but I do wonder how much of my money goes back to Jeff’s family back home, somewhere. Or if I decide to use my phone bet on NUFC scoring 3 goals before half time how much of my £ wings it’s way to someone’s relative many miles from these shores without a c going towards U.K. exchequer.

[Mervyn and Trish]

My problem was never with those who come here to work nor with media reporting of the minority who come to skive. It has always been that the EU can't see the difference. They insist on freedom of movement. No ifs. No buts. If the rule was freedom of movement for leisure of if you have a job to go to no problem. Then the system would have been seen to be fair. The problem was always freedom of movement to claim better benefits or make use of a better health service. Small changes to the rules could have resulted in a decisively different referendum outcome but they were intransigent.

[towny44]

My problem was never with those who come here to work nor with media reporting of the minority who come to skive. It has always been that the EU can't see the difference. They insist on freedom of movement. No ifs. No buts. If the rule was freedom of movement for leisure of if you have a job to go to no problem. Then the system would have been seen to be fair. The problem was always freedom of movement to claim better benefits or make use of a better health service. Small changes to the rules could have resulted in a decisively different referendum outcome but they were intransigent.

Your eloquence as usual Merv describes my views far better than my own does.

[barney]

Spot on Merv

[Quizzical Bob]

My problem was never with those who come here to work nor with media reporting of the minority who come to skive. It has always been that the EU can't see the difference. They insist on freedom of movement. No ifs. No buts. If the rule was freedom of movement for leisure of if you have a job to go to no problem. Then the system would have been seen to be fair. The problem was always freedom of movement to claim better benefits or make use of a better health service. Small changes to the rules could have resulted in a decisively different referendum outcome but they were intransigent.

That was not EU rules. It was the UK not bothering to apply restrictions that were permissible under EU rules.

It has never been freedom of movement per se but freedom of movement of labour. In order to stay longer than three months you have to be economically active, or a student or financially self-sufficient. The UK never enforced these restrictions because the loss of around £25m a year was not seen as worth worrying about.

Too late to do anything about it now.

[Mervyn and Trish]

My problem was never with those who come here to work nor with media reporting of the minority who come to skive. It has always been that the EU can't see the difference. They insist on freedom of movement. No ifs. No buts. If the rule was freedom of movement for leisure of if you have a job to go to no problem. Then the system would have been seen to be fair. The problem was always freedom of movement to claim better benefits or make use of a better health service. Small changes to the rules could have resulted in a decisively different referendum outcome but they were intransigent.

That was not EU rules. It was the UK not bothering to apply restrictions that were permissible under EU rules.

It has never been freedom of movement per se but freedom of movement of labour. In order to stay longer than three months you have to be economically active, or a student or financially self-sufficient. The UK never enforced these restrictions because the loss of around £25m a year was not seen as worth worrying about.

Too late to do anything about it now.

You are right it is too late to do anything about now. But whether it was EU rules or application of EU rules the issue was never a loss of £25m a year, if that figure is accurate, that mattered. It was the loss of credibility of the system. Which is what neither Cameron nor the EU got. However I'm not aiming to drag it all up again.

[Kendhni]

My problem was never with those who come here to work nor with media reporting of the minority who come to skive. It has always been that the EU can't see the difference. They insist on freedom of movement. No ifs. No buts. If the rule was freedom of movement for leisure of if you have a job to go to no problem. Then the system would have been seen to be fair. The problem was always freedom of movement to claim better benefits or make use of a better health service. Small changes to the rules could have resulted in a decisively different referendum outcome but they were intransigent.

Eloquent bu incorrect. Even when Cameron went to the EU looking concessions he was told, in relation to immigration, to enforce the laws that were available to him. Successive UK governments have refused to do so - I guess there is a much bigger picture going on apart from the one that the media is trying to program the population with.

[Mervyn and Trish]

My problem was never with those who come here to work nor with media reporting of the minority who come to skive. It has always been that the EU can't see the difference. They insist on freedom of movement. No ifs. No buts. If the rule was freedom of movement for leisure of if you have a job to go to no problem. Then the system would have been seen to be fair. The problem was always freedom of movement to claim better benefits or make use of a better health service. Small changes to the rules could have resulted in a decisively different referendum outcome but they were intransigent.

Eloquent bu incorrect. Even when Cameron went to the EU looking concessions he was told, in relation to immigration, to enforce the laws that were available to him. Successive UK governments have refused to do so - I guess there is a much bigger picture going on apart from the one that the media is trying to program the population with.

As I said in my response to QB above I'm not trying to drag it all up again. And as I also said it doesn't matter whether it was EU rules or UK application of them. Cameron didn't get it and that is why he lost the referendum. And as you correctly say no government from Major onwards has got it.

[towny44]

My problem was never with those who come here to work nor with media reporting of the minority who come to skive. It has always been that the EU can't see the difference. They insist on freedom of movement. No ifs. No buts. If the rule was freedom of movement for leisure of if you have a job to go to no problem. Then the system would have been seen to be fair. The problem was always freedom of movement to claim better benefits or make use of a better health service. Small changes to the rules could have resulted in a decisively different referendum outcome but they were intransigent.

Eloquent bu incorrect. Even when Cameron went to the EU looking concessions he was told, in relation to immigration, to enforce the laws that were available to him. Successive UK governments have refused to do so - I guess there is a much bigger picture going on apart from the one that the media is trying to program the population with.

As I said in my response to QB above I'm not trying to drag it all up again. And as I also said it doesn't matter whether it was EU rules or UK application of them. Cameron didn't get it and that is why he lost the referendum. And as you correctly say no government from Major onwards has got it.

Although I have no evidence either way on the accuracy of QB and Ken's comments, but I really cannot understand why if the comments are 100% accurate that the tabloid media were not jumping all over the various govts from Blair onwards to demand that they implemented these rules more in keeping with public opinion. And why UKIP were not leading the charge.

[Manoverboard]

The media are essentially Left Wing as are the Eurocrats and rulings coming from Belgium ... who's left ( ? ) to argue for a Right Wing shift in Policy. UKIP were presumably biding their time and waiting to strike at the most effective moment, ie when they had full Public support for their policies ... it wasn't going to happen of course.

[Quizzical Bob]

Eloquent bu incorrect. Even when Cameron went to the EU looking concessions he was told, in relation to immigration, to enforce the laws that were available to him. Successive UK governments have refused to do so - I guess there is a much bigger picture going on apart from the one that the media is trying to program the population with.

As I said in my response to QB above I'm not trying to drag it all up again. And as I also said it doesn't matter whether it was EU rules or UK application of them. Cameron didn't get it and that is why he lost the referendum. And as you correctly say no government from Major onwards has got it.

Although I have no evidence either way on the accuracy of QB and Ken's comments, but I really cannot understand why if the comments are 100% accurate that the tabloid media were not jumping all over the various govts from Blair onwards to demand that they implemented these rules more in keeping with public opinion. And why UKIP were not leading the charge.

UKIP and the tabloids wanted us out of the EU and the anti-migrant hostility suited their agenda. I have my suspicions about Cameron’s true intentions too.

Too late now, the course has been set and we have much bigger problems to contend with.

[Onelife]

There’s been a lot of talk about how social distancing will apply on public transport when lock-down is eased. I’ve heard things like removing every other seat of trains and buses mentioned. Well lets just presume the biggest influx of passengers will be in the rush hour why don’t work practices change in order to allow staggered starting times?.... I’m I missing something?

[towny44]

There’s been a lot of talk about how social distancing will apply on public transport when lock-down is eased. I’ve heard things like removing every other seat of trains and buses mentioned. Well lets just presume the biggest influx of passengers will be in the rush hour why don’t work practices change in order to allow staggered starting times?.... I’m I missing something?

I believe that such changes in working practises are probably one of the things being considered, spreading rush hour across a much longer timescale sounds a good idea.

[barney]

QB and Ken are both pretty much correct in what they say, but the huge difference in the U.K. when compared to most European countries is the in work benefits.
Basically, a Polish engineer could arrive here and take pretty much any crap job that he is massively over qualified for, safe in the knowledge that the benefit system would pick up the slack in wages.

I knew a chap who drove for Morrisons despite having a degree in engineering.
He is a lovely guy with a lovely family but still claimed everything that our system said he was entitled to.

Under Eu law, all citizens must be treated equally.
In Malta they cut the time that you could be on benefits to six months, but that had to also apply to Maltese citizens which caused much consternation.
Also, they offer no in work benefits now.

[screwy]

I’m saying nothing about the guy from Muslim News....

[Clophill4]

"I’m saying nothing about the guy from Muslim News...."

Did he have an agenda or what

[oldbluefox]

He most certainly did. However they weren't distracted by him. Must have been silly Sunday judging by some of the questions.

[screwy]

Ok I will say something. I suggest he takes the virus to a tribunal.