Current Affairs

[Kendhni]

.... similarly if you surf the web you are being tracked (VPN or not).

As it happens ' Norton ' do not support your claim regarding VPN .... just saying

I will try to dig it out. But there have been cases were people have been tracked even though they use VPNs. Think about it logically (and oversimplifying). When you sign onto a VPN you are effectively giving them your IP address, they then assign you a different IP address through various servers all of which know the in and out IP. Ultimately the target site gets the spoofed IP address. Servers keep track of all these changes - it can be backtracked, a lot of effort but in some cases the effort justifies the reward.

The target site may not be able to track you, but that does not necessarily prevent law enforcement, or a good hacker, from tracking you. VPN's are more about keeping transmitted data safe.

[Kendhni]

Ken, am I not correct in assuming that the current way mobile phones are located is via the nearest mast to the phone? This would be nowhere near as accurate as the phone to phone blue tooth connection which this app uses.

They actually are more accurate than that. A mobile phone continually tries to link to wifi hotspots or anything else it can. Those give a much tighter granularity - which is why when I stand still for more than 5 minutes I get pinged telling me that it knows I am in such-and-such a restaurant, do I want to leave a review. I am not sure of the apple equivalent, but if you use android, go to 'google timeline' and it will tell you where your mobile phone has been on any day (note it is where the phone is, not necessarily you).

My understanding is that Blue Tooth cannot determine distance very well. Plus if, for example, you walk past a cafe window it may pick up all those sitting at the window in the cafe. However it probably is more accurate than wifi hotspots.

I see on a lot of boards people saying they will not install an app because they don't want to be tracked. The point is that it is the phone that is tracking them and always has, the app is just surfacing the information the phone already has (plus whatever other information it can collect) in a way that is related to COVID-19.

I believe in some countries it is mandatory to install such an app - as usual we are just a bit slow out of the blocks.

[Onelife]

I hope my bookie opens again shortly because having just read Ken's contribution I’m going to have a tricast bet on which country hacks into the UK track and trace data base first. I’ll ask that the bet covers any nerd who wants to prove they can do it first.

China
USA
Russia

£10 ew tricast.

The biggest problem I’ll have of collecting is if our Government accidently does it first.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... urvey-2020

[BrianI]

Ken, am I not correct in assuming that the current way mobile phones are located is via the nearest mast to the phone? This would be nowhere near as accurate as the phone to phone blue tooth connection which this app uses.

Mobiles location is from satellite and are thus accurate to about 10 yards or so. At least mine does.
Brian

[Mervyn and Trish]

If you carry a mobile phone you ARE being tracked (no ifs or buts), similarly if you surf the web you are being tracked (VPN or not).

My question Ken is does a mobile phone track you precisely in time and to an accuracy of less than 2m? That I understand is the intention of the app to determine if you were that close to an infected person for a specific time. My google tracking record when I've checked often suggests I've been to places I haven't. I may have been in the vicinity but not within 2m.

[Mervyn and Trish]

My second thought would be that the app is presumably set up specifically to keep a record of near contacts over a period. To do it through Google locations would surely mean retrospectively searching a huge database of potential contact with millions of people? As a side issue I also prefer to trust my health to the NHS than Google!

[david63]

does a mobile phone track you precisely in time and to an accuracy of less than 2m

Yes. I have a smart watch which will track any walk that I do on my phone and it is very accurate - has the route perfect, almost to the inch!

[towny44]

does a mobile phone track you precisely in time and to an accuracy of less than 2m

Yes. I have a smart watch which will track any walk that I do on my phone and it is very accurate - has the route perfect, almost to the inch!

Does that mean all smart phones have GPS tracking in built? I can't find anything in settings to do with GPS, but I do know my granddaughter can use her phone as a SatNav, but since she is on a contract her mobile data will be switched on but my PAYG phone is always switched off.

[Quizzical Bob]

If you carry a mobile phone you ARE being tracked (no ifs or buts), similarly if you surf the web you are being tracked (VPN or not).

My question Ken is does a mobile phone track you precisely in time and to an accuracy of less than 2m? That I understand is the intention of the app to determine if you were that close to an infected person for a specific time. My google tracking record when I've checked often suggests I've been to places I haven't. I may have been in the vicinity but not within 2m.

GPS is not accurate to 2m on its own but can be enhanced by considering cell location and WiFi networks. You can turn off this enhanced mode yourself should you wish.

The virus contact app operates through Bluetooth contacts which operate up to 10m but it doesn’t need to know the absolute location, just that your phone has been near the phone of someone who has later reported being infected and that you have lingered there for several minutes.

[Kendhni]

If you carry a mobile phone you ARE being tracked (no ifs or buts), similarly if you surf the web you are being tracked (VPN or not).

My question Ken is does a mobile phone track you precisely in time and to an accuracy of less than 2m? That I understand is the intention of the app to determine if you were that close to an infected person for a specific time. My google tracking record when I've checked often suggests I've been to places I haven't. I may have been in the vicinity but not within 2m.

I honestly don't know the answer to that one and will bow to others that have answered. Suffice to say I have seen my phone being able to track which shop I am in in the shopping centre - it probably couldn't tell exactly where in the shop I am though.

[Onelife]

Just wondering about this track and trace app…..if say for instance you were talking outside a shop with friends and there was someone in the shop but 5 metres away with covid is there any likelihood that the app would detect you?

[Mervyn and Trish]

Thanks for the responses. With those and what I've read this morning I now understand rather more how this app is intended to work and why it doesn't use Google or Apple location info. As QB says it's not interested in where you are at all, only which other phones you are near to. It analyses that information in some detail including the time in proximity and stores it to alert you later if any of the owners of those phones subsequently reports themselves as symptomatic or tested positive for Covid. And it seems it only stores some kind of phone identity information not anyone else's personal info. It has to be worth a try as a support to very labour intensive manual contract tracing which in any case wouldn't find the person next to you on the fish queue at Waitrose!

[Kendhni]

Just wondering about this track and trace app…..if say for instance you were talking outside a shop with friends and there was someone in the shop but 5 metres away with covid is there any likelihood that the app would detect you?

The answer to that is pretty much a very solid and firm 'maybe'. Thee appears to be quite a few criteria being used - I am sure they will all become public knowledge after a short while. One place I know that uses such an app is Thailand - if you try reading up about their app it may give you more informaiton.

[Quizzical Bob]

Just wondering about this track and trace app…..if say for instance you were talking outside a shop with friends and there was someone in the shop but 5 metres away with covid is there any likelihood that the app would detect you?

The short answer is - yes. The long answer is - yes, probably.

[Quizzical Bob]

My phone is based on Android, the Google operating system. I never used to worry about being tracked until I logged into my Google account to see what it knew about my wanderings and got truly scared. I turned off all tracking and Google told me that it had done so but how do you know?

My paranoia started a couple of years ago one November when we were during a car trip along the Loire to top up on wine before Brexit put a stop to that sort of thing. At our age and on our medication a toilet stop can be quite a regular feature and after twenty minutes we found a public toilet in a a French village.

When she came out it occurred to me that there might be an App that tells you where the nearest public toilet is. I went onto Google Play Store and before I had even entered anything in the search box the top suggestion was ‘Where is Public Toilet’. Those nosey blighters knew that we had been hanging around outside a public toilet.

The app is actually quite useful though :j

[Onelife]

Thanks both, I’ll tell my wife to stop loitering outside shops from now on…I can’t have her self-isolating due to false negatives …..who’s going to cook my dinner?

[towny44]

It does sound ominous QB, but clearly Apple & Google are not sharing this data with law enforcement otherwise all these fly tippers would now be behind bars.

[Kendhni]

It does sound ominous QB, but clearly Apple & Google are not sharing this data with law enforcement otherwise all these fly tippers would now be behind bars.

Privacy laws in the UK prevent such things happening - not without a court order (which is how they have caught and provided evidence in relation to terrorism and pedophilia in the past)

[Quizzical Bob]

It does sound ominous QB, but clearly Apple & Google are not sharing this data with law enforcement otherwise all these fly tippers would now be behind bars.

Yes indeed. I spend a large part of my life hanging around outside ladies’ toilets.

[david63]

I spend a large part of my life hanging around outside ladies’ toilets.

Probably better than gent's toilets - just saying

[Onelife]

I spend a large part of my life hanging around outside ladies’ toilets.

Probably better than gent's toilets - just saying

Not if you're desperate David

[Frank Manning]

QB, you and me both. Sometimes it is useful to ladies queueing. On our call at Bornholm on Adonia, Sue used a public toilet where she went in and the automatic door on to the street then took some 2 or 3 minutes or so to close behind her. To make matters worse, the toilet seat faced the door. Luckily once it closed it could only be opened from the inside. We subsequently sat under some nearby trees eating an ice cream when a party of 5 or 6 ladies turned up to use the facilities. The subsequent confusion was amusing to watch, for several minutes. Understandably they were afraid that the door would either remain open, or would be opened while they were sat in a compromising position. Eventually Sue agreed that I should go over and explain the modus operandi to them. This caused further short term consternation as the sight of a man approaching at such a critical time was hardly comforting. However after I had pointed out Sue and explained, there was much laughter, and I was the hero of the hour. So QB, keep up the good work, loiter outside Ladies as much as you like, you'd best not wear a dirty brown raincoat though.

[Mervyn and Trish]

While visiting an outdoor tourist attraction in France we were about to go round the side when a Frenchman held up his hands to stop us. Moments later his wife appeared from the direction in which we had been heading and they walked off together. Her skirt tucked into her knickers at the back and blades of grass dangling from them!

[Quizzical Bob]

I spend a large part of my life hanging around outside ladies’ toilets.

Probably better than gent's toilets - just saying

Have you noticed that the handwriting’s a lot neater in the ladies’?

Maybe it’s because they can use both hands.

[Frank Manning]

I spend a large part of my life hanging around outside ladies’ toilets.

Probably better than gent's toilets - just saying

Have you noticed that the handwriting’s a lot neater in the ladies’?

Maybe it’s because they can use both hands.

Is it Bob? I'm unaware of what is on the inside of the ladies. Perhaps you should seek help.
Just saying.