Current Affairs

[Manoverboard]

I don’t know if they will have the virus but can almost guarantee an influx.
Lockdown is effectively ended.

When THE senior government advisor disregards their own rules , all bets are off.

The more sensible older folk will continue to obey but millions of others won’t.

Let us all hope that the residents of Instow remain safe during these difficult times, ditto Dorset and elsewhere.

[Gill W]

I have no idea, nor I suspect have you, if any of the people you mention in London are suitable choices to care for a four year old child who may or may not have symptoms of the virus. Mobietta and I haven’t been out of the village these past two months but if we had a child of that age who needed to be in a better place at that moment then one of us would drive him to somebody who wanted to take care of him/her and was experienced enough to do so. In all honesty it beggars belief that you can seriously suggest that a child should be dumped on a colleague simply because it would be within the guidelines of containment.

The guidelines were broken, agreed, but it is not a matter for the courts because the law hasn’t been broken. It is perhaps more akin to the Rules of this Forum, if so it follows that any violation would be punished in accordance with that rule without taking into consideration any mitigating circumstances ... that cannot be right, can it ?
.

I never said anything about the courts.

Cummings is the PM's chief advisor, and such is instrumental in government policy. Government policy was to issue a set of guidelines to tell us what to do in lockdown. Those guidelines were crystal clear in saying that if you or anybody else in your house hold were symptomatic, you should STAY AT HOME. no ifs, no buts, just stay at home.

Were there mitigating circumstances?

The rationale that has been given for their action is 'childcare'.

Cummings and his wife at both in their 40's and, as far as we know, aren't in any other risk category. Therefore, it's not particularly reasonable for them to think there was a likelihood of both of them being struck down so badly that neither of them could look after their child.

His wife, Mary Wakefield, works as commissioning editor for The Spectator. I think there is a high chance that they employ help with childcare for when they are both working. In extremis, the childcare help could have stepped in if the Cumming's' were incapacitated, even for a few hours until family stepped in - there is family in London or the sister from Northumberland driving down to collect the child, which would have been acceptable under the guidelines.

The guidelines also stated that you should not move to a second home for your self isolation, as this would put pressure on local health services. So he flouted that guideline too.

Once in Durham, the relatives there carried out no childcare duties at all. It has been stated that Cummings, wife and child stayed in a building on the parents property, and had food left at their door.

Therefore, on balance, I feel there are no mitigating circumstances at all

He has flouted regulations that he was instrumental in drawing up. Or in other words, do as I say, not what I do.

Therefore, in order to restore any faith in this government, the only thing that can be done is for him to resign. Or, if he won't do that Johnson should sack him.

[Quizzical Bob]

... I'm absolutely gobsmacked that anyone can even attempt to defend the actions of Cummings.
He was wrong.
He should admit that he was wrong.
He should resign.

The credibility of this government depends of this.

I will certainly defend his actions, once again and just for you

Yes he was wrong BUT for valid reasons, imo ... he has not denied the ' offence ' ... BUT

What does the Country and its population actually gain from his resignation ?

The credibility of the Goverment is not as risk from a bunch of left wingers / news hounds / Social Media groups / strong minded individuals who don't like the look of his face etc. It will have blown over in a week or so and especially if No 10 stay tight lipped.
.

What does the country gain?

Apart from getting rid of an unelected dictator with damaging extremist views on how the country should be run and what our national policies should be.

The more relevant matter is that if you think it right and important that the British People should comply with a lockdown directive then there must be leadership and example set from the very top. Otherwise we could all find some justification for our individual actions.

Certainly anyone who has been given a fine for their breaches would be justified in asking for a reimbursement.

No no no.

Once every five years is not democratic accountability.

A lot of damage can be done over a period of five years.

[Gill W]

I don’t know if they will have the virus but can almost guarantee an influx.
Lockdown is effectively ended.

When THE senior government advisor disregards their own rules , all bets are off.

The more sensible older folk will continue to obey but millions of others won’t.

Lockdown for some ended long ago. You can't blame Cummings for this, or can you?

You can't blame Cummings for that.... but I don't think a person can condemn the beach visitors AND think what Cummings did was OK

[Gill W]

You’ve missed the point Barney…Grant Shapps (Transport Secretary) was there to talk about transport not have a bloody inquisition about Cummings whereabouts…Marr should be sacked for not asking one question about what most people really want to know about.

And while we're at it, he should also have been sacked when he was caught with his trousers down but the BBC said "you work for us; we can do a better job of gagging than you tried to do".

The hypocrisy of the BBC holds no bounds

What most people want to know is the full story of Cummings and his visit(s) to Durham. No one's really interested about transport at this particular moment in time.

[oldbluefox]

My point throughout is that the lockdown has been farcical for some compared to other countries. The notion that the lockdown is ended because of Cummings is incorrect. It has not been strict enough and 'policing by consent' has not worked. EVERYBODY including Cummings should have been on strict lockdown similar to that seen in other countries and movement allowed only for shopping and chemists and certified travel for essential workers going to and from work. Not sure the British public would accept it in the same way others have.
I am not saying Cummings is right or wrong (certainly not from the Guardian article) but I don't go along with some of the left wing paranoia I have heard either.
Not sure whether anyone heard Christina Patterson's diatribe on Sky News paper review last night but I have never heard such a load of drivel. Matthew Syed was much more measured but until we know the facts nobody can decide what should or could happen. And neither can I.

[Gill W]

Well!

Cummings has been in Downing Street all afternoon, the daily briefing has been put back to 5pm and Boris Johnson has surfaced to take the briefing..... at the weekend, a bank holiday weekend at that.

Either

a) Johnson announces Cummings has resigned
b) Johnson announces he has sacked Cummings.
c) Cummings has been coaching Johnson all afternoon on what to say, and they try to brush it under the carpet

[towny44]

What part of “if you show symptoms, you must stay home “ is it so hard to understand?

If the guidelines said something different, I certainly haven’t seen them.

Irrespective of politics, he was wrong at every level.

I expect an influx of second home owners coming to Instow this week.

It’s ok to travel apparently?

I believe it said to self isolate, which is what he did, how wide you consider a family home to be is debatable.

[towny44]

You’ve missed the point Barney…Grant Shapps (Transport Secretary) was there to talk about transport not have a bloody inquisition about Cummings whereabouts…Marr should be sacked for not asking one question about what most people really want to know about.

And while we're at it, he should also have been sacked when he was caught with his trousers down but the BBC said "you work for us; we can do a better job of gagging than you tried to do".

The hypocrisy of the BBC holds no bounds

What most people want to know is the full story of Cummings and his visit(s) to Durham. No one's really interested about transport at this particular moment in time.

Not everyone Gill, and certainly not every question but one on yesterday's briefing.

[towny44]

Well!

Cummings has been in Downing Street all afternoon, the daily briefing has been put back to 5pm and Boris Johnson has surfaced to take the briefing..... at the weekend, a bank holiday weekend at that.

Either

a) Johnson announces Cummings has resigned
b) Johnson announces he has sacked Cummings.
c) Cummings has been coaching Johnson all afternoon on what to say, and they try to brush it under the carpet

If the daily briefing is again all about Cummings, I think we will give it a miss, apart from finding out the latest deaths and positive tests, which is far more important.

[Manoverboard]

I never said anything about the courts.

Cummings is the PM's chief advisor, and such is instrumental in government policy. Government policy was to issue a set of guidelines to tell us what to do in lockdown. Those guidelines were crystal clear in saying that if you or anybody else in your house hold were symptomatic, you should STAY AT HOME. no ifs, no buts, just stay at home.

Were there mitigating circumstances?

The rationale that has been given for their action is 'childcare'.

Cummings and his wife at both in their 40's and, as far as we know, aren't in any other risk category. Therefore, it's not particularly reasonable for them to think there was a likelihood of both of them being struck down so badly that neither of them could look after their child.

His wife, Mary Wakefield, works as commissioning editor for The Spectator. I think there is a high chance that they employ help with childcare for when they are both working. In extremis, the childcare help could have stepped in if the Cumming's' were incapacitated, even for a few hours until family stepped in - there is family in London or the sister from Northumberland driving down to collect the child, which would have been acceptable under the guidelines.

The guidelines also stated that you should not move to a second home for your self isolation, as this would put pressure on local health services. So he flouted that guideline too.

Once in Durham, the relatives there carried out no childcare duties at all. It has been stated that Cummings, wife and child stayed in a building on the parents property, and had food left at their door.

Therefore, on balance, I feel there are no mitigating circumstances at all

He has flouted regulations that he was instrumental in drawing up. Or in other words, do as I say, not what I do.

Therefore, in order to restore any faith in this government, the only thing that can be done is for him to resign. Or, if he won't do that Johnson should sack him.

Fair enough, I wouldn’t attempt to claim that he was innocent but I still maintain that there were mitigating circumstances.

You didn’t mention the courts but I did and purely to demonstrate that we are discussing guidelines rather than any legal requirement placed upon us ... any of us.

I would have thought that any couple sharing a house let alone a bed will almost certainly pass the virus one to the other. In their situation Mobietta and I would insist that we want family at that time rather than a child minder however competent they may be on a nine to five basis. There are also the child’s wishes to take into account albeit we can have no idea what they were but being with Mum or Dad else Auntie whatever would have been right at the top of his list. The London family member in London is a single male I believe so it may follow that child care is not his specialist subject.

We will differ but my confidence in this Government hasn’t changed one iota.
.

[Gill W]

What part of “if you show symptoms, you must stay home “ is it so hard to understand?

If the guidelines said something different, I certainly haven’t seen them.

Irrespective of politics, he was wrong at every level.

I expect an influx of second home owners coming to Instow this week.

It’s ok to travel apparently?

I believe it said to self isolate, which is what he did, how wide you consider a family home to be is debatable.

Self isolate at home, not travel to anther property to do it

[towny44]

What part of “if you show symptoms, you must stay home “ is it so hard to understand?

If the guidelines said something different, I certainly haven’t seen them.

Irrespective of politics, he was wrong at every level.

I expect an influx of second home owners coming to Instow this week.

It’s ok to travel apparently?

I believe it said to self isolate, which is what he did, how wide you consider a family home to be is debatable.

Self isolate at home, not travel to anther property to do it

As I said where is home, for a politician or politicians pet rottweiler it could be many miles away, and possibly an apartment in London might be 2nd choice for many people. My niece has 2 sons working in London and both have been allowed to work from home, and chose Huddesfield because it feels much more like home for them, even though they have lived and worked in London for a number of years.

[Manoverboard]

As I said where is home, for a politician or politicians pet rottweiler it could be many miles away, and possibly an apartment in London might be 2nd choice for many people. My niece has 2 sons working in London and both have been allowed to work from home, and chose Huddesfield because it feels much more like home for them, even though they have lived and worked in London for a number of years.

Yes, I thought about that ... where is the Cummings' actual home ?

Does he, for example, dwell in London to avoid travel and making related claims or are they true residents within a London Borough ?

[Manoverboard]

A bit of clarification re the Guidelines may be appropriate ....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Government advice for households where one or more members have coronavirus symptoms is simple - stay at home.

Official guidance published in March says "it is very important that individuals with symptoms that may be due to coronavirus and their household members stay at home". This still applies.

The guidance outlines ways to pass the time and obtain food and medicine.

However, it does acknowledge that it is not always straightforward when children are involved.

It says: " If you have children, keep following this advice to the best of your ability, however, we are aware that not all these measures will be possible."
.

[Onelife]

Well!

Cummings has been in Downing Street all afternoon, the daily briefing has been put back to 5pm and Boris Johnson has surfaced to take the briefing..... at the weekend, a bank holiday weekend at that.

Either

a) Johnson announces Cummings has resigned
b) Johnson announces he has sacked Cummings.
c) Cummings has been coaching Johnson all afternoon on what to say, and they try to brush it under the carpet

Or

D) he stands by the man who masterminded a landslide election victory

[Onelife]

A bit of clarification re the Guidelines may be appropriate ....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Government advice for households where one or more members have coronavirus symptoms is simple - stay at home.

Official guidance published in March says "it is very important that individuals with symptoms that may be due to coronavirus and their household members stay at home". This still applies.

The guidance outlines ways to pass the time and obtain food and medicine.

However, it does acknowledge that it is not always straightforward when children are involved.

It says: " If you have children, keep following this advice to the best of your ability, however, we are aware that not all these measures will be possible."
.

You missed your vocation in life….” Researchers” are meticulous in unearthing the truth.

Good post Mob

[Manoverboard]

Boris has just announced that Mr Cummings will be going nowhere and that he took the correct decision for his family.

Common sense has thankfully prevailed over the baying mob crowd
.

[barney]

#disgusted
Enough said.
Go where you like!
Do what you want!

[oldbluefox]

#disgusted
Enough said.
Go where you like!
Do what you want!

.......and risk catching the virus . The rest of us with common sense will continue to do what we have all been doing this past seven or eight weeks.

[anniec]

Boris has just announced that Mr Cummings will be going nowhere

Well, that will make a nice change

[Manoverboard]

Boris has just announced that Mr Cummings will be going nowhere

Well, that will make a nice change

Clearly an unforeseen Freudian slip on my part

[Onelife]

I loved the PM’s “I’ve explained it once, now bugger off attitude”

[oldbluefox]

I loved the PM’s “I’ve explained it once, now bug*er off attitude”

Peston's face was a treat!!
Trouble is they were all asking the same question and getting the same answer.

[Manoverboard]

I loved the PM’s “I’ve explained it once, now bug*er off attitude”

Peston's face was a treat!!
Trouble is they were all asking the same question and getting the same answer.

I'm not going to gloat .... oh yes you are ... oh no I'm not