Current Affairs

[Onelife]

Two scientists present and contributing at today's briefing. Detailed explanation of current R rates and infection rates. Is everyone happy now?

So, the press gets their own way again having asked why we hadn’t seen the scientists for three days? Ah! Bisto, we go from sage and onions to bubble and Squeak!!! … well I’d be a lot "happier" if the Government stopped bending over to the pressure put on by the press…. The government decisions are now starting to look like meals without the menus.

[screwy]

I’d be a lot happier if Politicians stopped bending over to make political points / personal points like going on one knee...or in the case of the mayor of Minneapolis, crying at the coffin of a career criminal.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I found the reports of the funeral yesterday a bit odd. It was described as a "private " funeral and yet the world's media seemed to be there and there was coverage all over radio and tv news bulletins. Which bit of private didn't I understand?

[Manoverboard]

Statues being taken down left,right and centre. Wonder if they’ll pull down Guys Hospital.? Maybe rename it ‘ The Bob Marley centre.’

Until this morning's Breakfast Show on BBC1 I was with you 100% regarding the pulling down of statues but I must now advise that I have been convinced, by reason rather than protest, that we may have got it completely wrong.

The program's guest quietly reasoned that a statue is not a celebration nor indeed a reminder of our history but that it is the celebration of one person. He went on to suggest that such statues should be in a Museum that reflect that part of our past rather than still being sited in a prominent position in the 21st Century when there cannot be any possible reason for any form of glorification of that person – ish.

The guest speaker was no other than David Olusoga ... gets a from me.
.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Yes I heard him say similar in the news at the weekend. He makes a good point. If so though it should be done in an orderly considered manner not by a howling anarchist mob.

[Stephen]

I wonder if this would have happened if we didn't have Covid-19 and idle hands!

How many previous black people over the years have died unnecessary yet statues still stand.

It seems to me mob rule is ruling with government and council officials backing down.

[towny44]

But if all statues are to be transient, and transferred into museums once their useful life is complete, then why bother with them at all. Similarly why bother having paintings of all previous PMs in 10 Downing st. or indeed anything pertaining to the glorification of anyone. In fact why don't we invite Oliver Cromwell to become our permanent leader and become latter day Puritans.

[Manoverboard]

But if all statues are to be transient, and transferred into museums once their useful life is complete, then why bother with them at all. Similarly why bother having paintings of all previous PMs in 10 Downing st. or indeed anything pertaining to the glorification of anyone. In fact why don't we invite Oliver Cromwell to become our permanent leader and become latter day Puritans.

We could do that but if you ever go to Ireland be sure not to mention Oliver Cromwell ... to be sure

[oldbluefox]

Until this morning's Breakfast Show on BBC1 I was with you 100% regarding the pulling down of statues but I must now advise that I have been convinced, by reason rather than protest, that we may have got it completely wrong.

The program's guest quietly reasoned that a statue is not a celebration nor indeed a reminder of our history but that it is the celebration of one person. He went on to suggest that such statues should be in a Museum that reflect that part of our past rather than still being sited in a prominent position in the 21st Century when there cannot be any possible reason for any form of glorification of that person – ish.

The guest speaker was no other than David Olusoga ... gets a from me.
.

I come at this from a different angle as expressed by Sir Geoff Palmer in Edinburgh.
"Speaking after taking part in the weekend’s Black Lives Matter protests, Sir Geoff also argued against the demolition of slave traders’ statues — arguing their destruction meant atrocities of the past would be forgotten.

Ultimately, however, the academic — who was knighted for his services to academia and human rights – said education lay at the heart of challenging racism".
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/ne ... learances/

So even amongst the black academics there is a different opinion.
My feelings are that we are now measuring our modern values against those of the 18th century. It is a matter of shame when we look back at those turbulent times, of press-ganging men to take to sea, of ill treatment of the natives of the lands they discovered, of brutality and ignorance and a total lack of appreciation of skin colour. Nowadays we know it was wrong.
Take the statues away and you are taking away any reminder of what those people did. You cannot hide the past behind museum doors. Instead we should be educating who these people were, good and bad. In their day they were revered for their philanthropy and how they made their wealth was of no concern to the society of that day. They are not revered nowadays but stand as a reminder of a period in time which was very different and should be used as a reminder of a chapter in British history from which we should all learn. Trying to sanitise Britain is not feasible.

And let us also remember the part played by their black brothers who rounded up slaves which they then sold to the white man. This part of black history tends to be air-brushed out but they are equally to blame.

[Onelife]

Statues being taken down left,right and centre. Wonder if they’ll pull down Guys Hospital.? Maybe rename it ‘ The Bob Marley centre.’

Until this morning's Breakfast Show on BBC1 I was with you 100% regarding the pulling down of statues but I must now advise that I have been convinced, by reason rather than protest, that we may have got it completely wrong.

The program's guest quietly reasoned that a statue is not a celebration nor indeed a reminder of our history but that it is the celebration of one person. He went on to suggest that such statues should be in a Museum that reflect that part of our past rather than still being sited in a prominent position in the 21st Century when there cannot be any possible reason for any form of glorification of that person – ish.

The guest speaker was no other than David Olusoga ... gets a from me.
.

I haven't seen the interview yet but agree with his reasoning.....what l would like to see is designated museums that focus solely on specific historic events.

Although the way things are going they'll be no statues to put in them.

[Gill W]

Statues being taken down left,right and centre. Wonder if they’ll pull down Guys Hospital.? Maybe rename it ‘ The Bob Marley centre.’

Until this morning's Breakfast Show on BBC1 I was with you 100% regarding the pulling down of statues but I must now advise that I have been convinced, by reason rather than protest, that we may have got it completely wrong.

The program's guest quietly reasoned that a statue is not a celebration nor indeed a reminder of our history but that it is the celebration of one person. He went on to suggest that such statues should be in a Museum that reflect that part of our past rather than still being sited in a prominent position in the 21st Century when there cannot be any possible reason for any form of glorification of that person – ish.

The guest speaker was no other than David Olusoga ... gets a from me.
.

I didn’t see that, but I he said something similar at the weekend, and I also saw a clip of him from a couple of years ago giving a very similar message. I think he makes a very good point.

They’ve already fished out the Colston statue from Bristol harbour, and it’s going to go into a museum with the full story and context, so that people can learn about what happened. In fact, I think a lot of people have already learned a lot this week about slavery.

[Gill W]

Yes I heard him say similar in the news at the weekend. He makes a good point. If so though it should be done in an orderly considered manner not by a howling anarchist mob.

Apparently the Colston statue had been a bone of contention for years in Bristol.

Maybe, sometimes, direct action is a catalyst for real change, that years of jawing never achieves.

[Gill W]

But if all statues are to be transient, and transferred into museums once their useful life is complete, then why bother with them at all. Similarly why bother having paintings of all previous PMs in 10 Downing st. or indeed anything pertaining to the glorification of anyone. In fact why don't we invite Oliver Cromwell to become our permanent leader and become latter day Puritans.

If the statue is there for education, rather than glorification, statues have a real benefit to society. For example, they can be used to commemorate events in history, such as the holocaust and the Irish potato famine. It’s a visual reminder of historical events, so that they don’t slip away from our collective consciousness.

My current favourite statue is the Amy Johnson statue in Herne Bay. Amy Johnson was lost in the Thames near Herne Bay, and the statue was put up a few years ago. I like to think it’s made younger generations ask who she was, and to find out more about her.

[Gill W]

Statues being taken down left,right and centre. Wonder if they’ll pull down Guys Hospital.? Maybe rename it ‘ The Bob Marley centre.’

Until this morning's Breakfast Show on BBC1 I was with you 100% regarding the pulling down of statues but I must now advise that I have been convinced, by reason rather than protest, that we may have got it completely wrong.

The program's guest quietly reasoned that a statue is not a celebration nor indeed a reminder of our history but that it is the celebration of one person. He went on to suggest that such statues should be in a Museum that reflect that part of our past rather than still being sited in a prominent position in the 21st Century when there cannot be any possible reason for any form of glorification of that person – ish.

The guest speaker was no other than David Olusoga ... gets a from me.
.

I haven't seen the interview yet but agree with his reasoning.....what l would like to see is designated museums that focus solely on specific historic events.

Although the way things are going they'll be no statues to put in them.

I’ve heard talk of a Statue Park, where toppled statues would be displayed, with full historical context

[Gill W]

Until this morning's Breakfast Show on BBC1 I was with you 100% regarding the pulling down of statues but I must now advise that I have been convinced, by reason rather than protest, that we may have got it completely wrong.

The program's guest quietly reasoned that a statue is not a celebration nor indeed a reminder of our history but that it is the celebration of one person. He went on to suggest that such statues should be in a Museum that reflect that part of our past rather than still being sited in a prominent position in the 21st Century when there cannot be any possible reason for any form of glorification of that person – ish.

The guest speaker was no other than David Olusoga ... gets a from me.
.

I come at this from a different angle as expressed by Sir Geoff Palmer in Edinburgh.
"Speaking after taking part in the weekend’s Black Lives Matter protests, Sir Geoff also argued against the demolition of slave traders’ statues — arguing their destruction meant atrocities of the past would be forgotten.

Ultimately, however, the academic — who was knighted for his services to academia and human rights – said education lay at the heart of challenging racism".
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/ne ... learances/

So even amongst the black academics there is a different opinion.
My feelings are that we are now measuring our modern values against those of the 18th century. It is a matter of shame when we look back at those turbulent times, of press-ganging men to take to sea, of ill treatment of the natives of the lands they discovered, of brutality and ignorance and a total lack of appreciation of skin colour. Nowadays we know it was wrong.
Take the statues away and you are taking away any reminder of what those people did. You cannot hide the past behind museum doors. Instead we should be educating who these people were, good and bad. In their day they were revered for their philanthropy and how they made their wealth was of no concern to the society of that day. They are not revered nowadays but stand as a reminder of a period in time which was very different and should be used as a reminder of a chapter in British history from which we should all learn. Trying to sanitise Britain is not feasible.

And let us also remember the part played by their black brothers who rounded up slaves which they then sold to the white man. This part of black history tends to be air-brushed out but they are equally to blame.

I think the problem was that the statues were on their plinths with no historical context whatsoever.

A museum can do a far better job of telling the full story. These days, museums are very assessable for all ages, not dusty old places where artefacts are hidden away.

[Manoverboard]

.
Having ' seen the light '

Take the statues away and you are taking away any reminder of what those people did.

Leaving them there will remind many Africa descendants what they are deeply ashamed of.

And let us also remember the part played by their black brothers who rounded up slaves which they then sold to the white man.

Agreed, that can and should be reflected in a Slave Museum

This part of black history tends to be air-brushed out but they are equally to blame.

It should be a period of understanding rather than a finger pointing exercise, at that time we were all to blame.
.

[Onelife]

I think Ian Duncan Smith should keep his trap shut about wanting to relax the two metre rule as he's already responsible for the hardship imposed on many disabled people....not to mention those he sent to an early grave....The man should be made to wear a "public health warning" placard around his neck.

Slimy git!!!

[oldbluefox]

I’ve heard talk of a Statue Park, where toppled statues would be displayed, with full historical context

Why not leave them where they are with, as you say, full historical context so instead of being a statue to be revered as expressed by David Olusoga they become a focus of education and reflection?
I think David was wrong with his revered comment. Until this week I had never heard of him and if nobody had said anything I doubt the people of Bristol would either. He was a figure from the past but one who played a role in the development of Bristol.

[Manoverboard]

I think Ian Duncan Smith should keep his trap shut about wanting to relax the two metre rule as he's already responsible for the hardship imposed on many disabled people....not to mention those he sent to an early grave....The man should be made to wear a "public health warning" placard around his neck.

Slimy git!!!

Sometimes I think you're nought but a raving left winger who hates the Tories ... this is one of those times
.

[oldbluefox]

I think the problem was that the statues were on their plinths with no historical context whatsoever.

I agree and think therein lies the problem.
Our local museum is 30 miles away so it would not be as accessible as an information board placed in situ.

[oldbluefox]

I think Ian Duncan Smith should keep his trap shut about wanting to relax the two metre rule as he's already responsible for the hardship imposed on many disabled people....not to mention those he sent to an early grave....The man should be made to wear a "public health warning" placard around his neck.

Slimy git!!!

Sometimes I think you're nought but a raving left winger who hates the Tories ... this is one of those times
.

How do you go about banning him, and his chickens!!!

[Onelife]

I'm a "swinger" mob...staying somewhere between the two allows me to slag off as and when it pleases

Cluck cluck to you Foxy

[Manoverboard]

I think Ian Duncan Smith should keep his trap shut about wanting to relax the two metre rule as he's already responsible for the hardship imposed on many disabled people....not to mention those he sent to an early grave....The man should be made to wear a "public health warning" placard around his neck.

Slimy git!!!

Sometimes I think you're nought but a raving left winger who hates the Tories ... this is one of those times
.

How do you go about banning him, and his chickens!!!

You're a Fox ... you sort out the bl**dy chickens

[Onelife]

And l'll send in the hounds

[Stephen]

I'm a "swinger" mob...staying somewhere between the two allows me to slag off as and when it pleases

Cluck cluck to you Foxy

Just don't bend down to do your shoe laces up