Current Affairs

[oldbluefox]

Last year, you couldn’t move for Greta Thunberg.
This year it’s BLM.
Next year ? Watch this space?

Fair play for Gillingham?

[Onelife]

Not sure how anybody can argue against ALL LIVES MATTER unless you only look at the issue from a black or white perspective. No life is more equal than any other.

Not the lives but lack of life opportunity ... is the reason for the protests or so I now believe.
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From a back seat moderating position I would agree with that old Chum

[oldbluefox]

Thinking about it the phrase ALL LIVES MATTER should apply no matter what colour, race religion you are and taken to its ultimate conclusion will include equality of opportunity for all.
Not a believer in positive discrimination which skews equal opportunity.

[Manoverboard]

Are you suggesting that all the coloured folk living in this Country get exactly the same deal and opportunity as white UK nationals

Actually yes I am. But I am not saying that everyone living in this country gets exactly the same deal and opportunity.

There are variances within all groups, be they coloured or white. There are some (many?) coloured people in this country that have a better "deal" than many white UK nationals and equally the opposite exists.

it is my belief that the coloured folk have to try that little bit harder at every level and that they are not first choice anywhere at all along the line regardless of capability or qualification. There will be exceptions of course but generally there has been and continues to be systemic racial bias.

As an aside I can remember working for a well known Company way back in 1962 where there was an hourly pay rate difference between their British employees and those of ethnic origin in spite of doing exactly the same work. I mention it only because I recently read that it is still happening ... forty years on for heavens sakes, albeit in a different company.

[towny44]

Not sure how anybody can argue against ALL LIVES MATTER unless you only look at the issue from a black or white perspective. No life is more equal than any other.

Not the lives but lack of life opportunity ... is the reason for the protests or so I now believe.
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I agree with you that some BAME families do suffer from a lack of opportunity, but immigrant ghettos have existed all around the world of various ethnic groups for decades. But over time many have managed to move up the social ladder very successfully, and in fact many Indian and W Indian families have already started this transition. But it does take time, and it also requires them to adapt to their new society.
I believe this is where we differ from the US we have never had a state sponsored segregation system in the UK, we have had, and still do have, more racial discrimination than we should have, but this is definitely reducing, as we all probably notice from our Grandchildrens more tolerant attitudes to all types of prejudice. So I would say that in the main Black lives have always mattered in the UK, far more than in the USA.

[Manoverboard]

... very high in football ....

True but not a fair representation at the Managerial level in spite of having the same badges etc, it is claimed that they are given less time before the axe falls. John Barnes, Sol Campbell and Chris Houghton would testify.
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[Manoverboard]

I agree with you that some BAME families do suffer from a lack of opportunity, but immigrant ghettos have existed all around the world of various ethnic groups for decades. But over time many have managed to move up the social ladder very successfully, and in fact many Indian and W Indian families have already started this transition. But it does take time, and it also requires them to adapt to their new society.
I believe this is where we differ from the US we have never had a state sponsored segregation system in the UK, we have had, and still do have, more racial discrimination than we should have, but this is definitely reducing, as we all probably notice from our Grandchildrens more tolerant attitudes to all types of prejudice. So I would say that in the main Black lives have always mattered in the UK, far more than in the USA.

You make some very good points John ... had the African slaves been transported to Huddersfield rather than Virginia then we too would have their well honed hardened attitudes.

[towny44]

... very high in football ....

True but not a fair representation at the Managerial level in spite of having the same badges etc, it is claimed that they are given less time before the axe falls. John Barnes, Sol Campbell and Houghton would testify.

What Black footballers desperately need is a successful manager at Prem Leagu level, it will happen sometime and once it does this should release the flood gates. But the lack of one to date does tend to prejudice team owners against giving them a chance.

[Gill W]

I remember that Screwy said that he encountered racial slurs directed at him at work.

However, generally speaking, how many white people have to put up with the risk of racism everyday of their lives, whether casual racism, indirect racism or overt racism ?

Speaking as a white person, I have never suffered from racism directed at me, and I think that is probably the case for the majority of white people.

However, BAME people that I've known over the years have always had stories to tell about racism, some of them quite hair -raising. It must be very depressing to know you could encounter racism at virtually any time and it would really get me down to be considered a lesser person just because the colour of my skin.

It's not just about work and opportunities, it's attitudes as well.

I think we need to listen to what people are saying and not judge because we don't like the methods that SOME protestors have employed.

[Onelife]

I remember that Screwy said that he encountered racial slurs directed at him at work.

However, generally speaking, how many white people have to put up with the risk of racism everyday of their lives, whether casual racism, indirect racism or overt racism ?

Speaking as a white person, I have never suffered from racism directed at me, and I think that is probably the case for the majority of white people.

However, BAME people that I've known over the years have always had stories to tell about racism, some of them quite hair -raising. It must be very depressing to know you could encounter racism at virtually any time and it would really get me down to be considered a lesser person just because the colour of my skin.

It's not just about work and opportunities, it's attitudes as well.

I think we need to listen to what people are saying and not judge because we don't like the methods that SOME protestors have employed.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I think we need to listen to what people are saying

I agree Gill. But one reason I don't think the protests. hijacked by extremists, help is that the people who will listen mostly already have and, if anything, are more likely to be alienated by protests. The hard core racists will not listen and will be revelling in the images of extremists to bolster their position.

[david63]

what gives you the right to think that?

The same right as everybody else on here to have their own opinion and to express it - whether anybody else agrees with it is another matter.

[oldbluefox]

I think we need to listen to what people are saying

I agree Gill. But one reason I don't think the protests. hijacked by extremists, help is that the people who will listen mostly already have and, if anything, are more likely to be alienated by protests. The hard core racists will not listen and will be revelling in the images of extremists to bolster their position.

Spot on Merv.
The scenes seen three weeks ago do nothing to promote this cause apart from alienating middle Britain who would otherwise be sympathetic.

[Mervyn and Trish]

So here's a question everyone. If you were at an event where everyone went down on one knee would you join in? If you didn't you can he sure you would be condemned as racist. Ii find that very uncomfortable and coersion to join a protest whether you agree or not. . Let's go beyond racism and remember that the man you're commemorating was a criminal. That's why he was under arrest. His death is inexcusable. But he was not an innocent.

[towny44]

So here's a question everyone. If you were at an event where everyone went down on one knee would you join in? If you didn't you can he sure you would be condemned as racist. Ii find that very uncomfortable and coersion to join a protest whether you agree or not. . Let's go beyond racism and remember that the man you're commemorating was a criminal. That's why he was under arrest. His death is inexcusable. But he was not an innocent.

I must admit that being forced to go down on one knee or face the consequences, is not that far removed from the feeling that many Germans must have had when having to return the Heil Hitler salute.

[Onelife]

So here's a question everyone. If you were at an event where everyone went down on one knee would you join in? If you didn't you can he sure you would be condemned as racist. Ii find that very uncomfortable and coersion to join a protest whether you agree or not. . Let's go beyond racism and remember that the man you're commemorating was a criminal. That's why he was under arrest. His death is inexcusable. But he was not an innocent.

If I were at such an event then yes, I would go down on one knee, but not out of fear of being called a racist, I would do so as a show of solidarity for a cause I believed in…on that note I do recall joining others lying in front of an articulated lorry for one cause I believed in. I think we need to look past the yobs and see the bigger picture of why hundreds of thousands have taken to the streets…the powers that be have consistently turned a blind eye to the plight of the poorest in society whether they be black or white, theses protests are the result of broken promises and broken hearts.

[Gill W]

So here's a question everyone. If you were at an event where everyone went down on one knee would you join in? If you didn't you can he sure you would be condemned as racist. Ii find that very uncomfortable and coersion to join a protest whether you agree or not. . Let's go beyond racism and remember that the man you're commemorating was a criminal. That's why he was under arrest. His death is inexcusable. But he was not an innocent.

If I were at such an event then yes, I would go down on one knee, but not out of fear of being called a racist, I would do so as a show of solidarity for a cause I believed in…on that note I do recall joining others lying in front of an articulated lorry for one cause I believed in. I think we need to look past the yobs and see the bigger picture of why hundreds of thousands have taken to the streets…the powers that be have consistently turned a blind eye to the plight of the poorest in society whether they be black or white, theses protests are the result of broken promises and broken hearts.

I agree, Keith.

‘Taking a knee’ is a gesture of support for the concept that a black person’s life (or other ethnic minority) matters as much as a white persons life, and also to support the fight against racism.

I’m sure most people agree with these concepts, so I don’t really understand the apparent disapproval of ‘taking a knee’.

The death of George Floyd was a catalyst for the subject of racism to come to our attention, so I don’t regard it as a commemoration of Floyd, and ‘taking a knee’ is not a brand new thing. It was started in 2016 by American footballers.

I also don’t understand the constant dwelling on negatives - millions of people round the world are coming together and calling for change, that has to be a positive?

[Stephen]

So here's a question everyone. If you were at an event where everyone went down on one knee would you join in? If you didn't you can he sure you would be condemned as racist. Ii find that very uncomfortable and coersion to join a protest whether you agree or not. . Let's go beyond racism and remember that the man you're commemorating was a criminal. That's why he was under arrest. His death is inexcusable. But he was not an innocent.

Agree.

All this bended knee tosh is a load of rubbish. Just the government too scared of doing anything or being politically incorrect. I notice it's all quiet when it's the other way round when white people are attacked.

I was speaking to someone the other day who is married to a Russian lady. He said you wouldn't get all this rioting over there. I can well believe it to.

[Manoverboard]

So here's a question everyone. If you were at an event where everyone went down on one knee would you join in?

No chance of me going down on a bended knee ... if only because it could be a bit of a bu**er getting up again .. on the basis that I do not, in my heart of hearts, support the cause. I didn’t warm to the protest because too many seemed to be there for an excuse to look good / feel good / else were riding a band waggon inspired by Social Media Groups. Were too many of the protesters young inexperienced woolly do gooders rather than mature family folk from Arcadia Avenue I found myself wondering.

I do however recognise that minorities often get a rough ride but way back in the dim and distant past I was written off because we lived on a large no nonsense / keep out type Council Estate who were destined to work in one of the local factories at best. It was the 11+ exam that sowed the seeds of change but not until many years later when I realised that I did, after all, have some control over my own destiny.

After attending the University of Life it was time to make the effort required to fight one’s way out of a paper bag to achieve something to be proud of. No protests of support in this hard cruel world of ours, nothing was delivered on a plate to myself and Mobietta via benefits nor any form of legislation. It was down to hard work and getting that large chip off one’s shoulder. It was an evolution process and one that has to be followed by each and every one of us if equality is the genuine objective regardless of colour etc etc.

Like I said .... I will not be going down on one's knee because it is nought but a hollow gesture if insincere.
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[Stephen]

So here's a question everyone. If you were at an event where everyone went down on one knee would you join in?

No chance of me going down on a bended knee ... if only because it could be a bit of a bu**er getting up again .. on the basis that I do not, in my heart of hearts, support the cause. I didn’t warm to the protest because too many seemed to be there for an excuse to look good / feel good / else were riding a band waggon inspired by Social Media Groups. Were too many of the protesters young inexperienced woolly do gooders rather than mature family folk from Arcadia Avenue I found myself wondering.

I do however recognise that minorities often get a rough ride but way back in the dim and distant past I was written off because we lived on a large no nonsense / keep out type Council Estate who were destined to work in one of the local factories at best. It was the 11+ exam that sowed the seeds of change but not until many years later when I realised that I did, after all, have some control over my own destiny.

After attending the University of Life it was time to make the effort required to fight one’s way out of a paper bag to achieve something to be proud of. No protests of support in this hard cruel world of ours, nothing was delivered on a plate to myself and Mobietta via benefits nor any form of legislation. It was down to hard work and getting that large chip off one’s shoulder. It was an evolution process and one that has to be followed by each and every one of us if equality is the genuine objective regardless of colour etc etc.

Like I said .... I will not be going down on one's knee because it is nought but a hollow gesture if insincere.
.

Sounds a familiar story to my upbringing

[Onelife]

So here's a question everyone. If you were at an event where everyone went down on one knee would you join in?

No chance of me going down on a bended knee ... if only because it could be a bit of a bu**er getting up again .. on the basis that I do not, in my heart of hearts, support the cause. I didn’t warm to the protest because too many seemed to be there for an excuse to look good / feel good / else were riding a band waggon inspired by Social Media Groups. Were too many of the protesters young inexperienced woolly do gooders rather than mature family folk from Arcadia Avenue I found myself wondering.

I do however recognise that minorities often get a rough ride but way back in the dim and distant past I was written off because we lived on a large no nonsense / keep out type Council Estate who were destined to work in one of the local factories at best. It was the 11+ exam that sowed the seeds of change but not until many years later when I realised that I did, after all, have some control over my own destiny.

After attending the University of Life it was time to make the effort required to fight one’s way out of a paper bag to achieve something to be proud of. No protests of support in this hard cruel world of ours, nothing was delivered on a plate to myself and Mobietta via benefits nor any form of legislation. It was down to hard work and getting that large chip off one’s shoulder. It was an evolution process and one that has to be followed by each and every one of us if equality is the genuine objective regardless of colour etc etc.

Like I said .... I will not be going down on one's knee because it is nought but a hollow gesture if insincere.
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My upbringing was similar to that of yours Mob as I also lived in a no-nonsense council estate but I dare say, ours like yours was void of families of colour which was probably the same with many council estates around the country when we were but two little boys. Your little boy made good theory would have more relevance if you were comparing like for like in terms of white/ black demographics of the time…just saying!

[screwy]

So here's a question everyone. If you were at an event where everyone went down on one knee would you join in?

No chance of me going down on a bended knee ... if only because it could be a bit of a bu**er getting up again .. on the basis that I do not, in my heart of hearts, support the cause. I didn’t warm to the protest because too many seemed to be there for an excuse to look good / feel good / else were riding a band waggon inspired by Social Media Groups. Were too many of the protesters young inexperienced woolly do gooders rather than mature family folk from Arcadia Avenue I found myself wondering.

I do however recognise that minorities often get a rough ride but way back in the dim and distant past I was written off because we lived on a large no nonsense / keep out type Council Estate who were destined to work in one of the local factories at best. It was the 11+ exam that sowed the seeds of change but not until many years later when I realised that I did, after all, have some control over my own destiny.

After attending the University of Life it was time to make the effort required to fight one’s way out of a paper bag to achieve something to be proud of. No protests of support in this hard cruel world of ours, nothing was delivered on a plate to myself and Mobietta via benefits nor any form of legislation. It was down to hard work and getting that large chip off one’s shoulder. It was an evolution process and one that has to be followed by each and every one of us if equality is the genuine objective regardless of colour etc etc.

Like I said .... I will not be going down on one's knee because it is nought but a hollow gesture if insincere.
.

Brilliant post Mob.I would say quite a few of us on here had the same upbringing, I certainly did and like you I did something about my lack of opportunities,unlike I didn’t pass the 11+, I didn’t pass any exams.Hard work and realisation got me where I am and I don’t apologise for it. If I have to go on one knee I hope my Monarch will be standing in front of me saying, ‘arise Sir Screwy’.

[Manoverboard]

... Your little boy made good theory would have more relevance if you were comparing like for like in terms of white/ black demographics of the time…just saying!

Tis easy to select the part that suits one's own views ... just saying

As a small boy I didn't see a coloured feller until I was maybe twelve years old but in my late teens that all changed because we witnessed first hand the arrival of umpteen Caribbean folk who were invited to work in the hospitals and on the buses etc in the town where we lived. They had different habits to us like cutting their hair in the front gardens or playing reggae music in the back garden on full volume until way past our usual bedtimes but hey it all added a bit of colour, literally one could say. We also played cricket with their 6 ft tall youths, not little boys at all, we were rubbish compared to them so we realised early on that they could certainly compete at sport.

During the period I referred to as a ' University of Life ' I shared social and work related experiences with folk from virtually every corner of the globe including many from the Caribbean, so, contrary to what you suggest I believe that I am reasonably well qualified to comment on such matters.
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[oldbluefox]

My roots are in Leicester where I still have family. This is a city where white people are now the minority but, by and large they all rub together and in many cases have integrated into the wider community each embracing the other cultures such as Christmas, Easter, Eid, Diwali. It's not perfect but it takes time.
Interestingly a few years ago the council decided they would not put up the usual crib scene in the town hall square along with all the other trappings of Christmas. There was an uproar - not from the white community but from the Asian community who said it did not offend but Christian traditions should be upheld and in fact they join in and share this tradition. This is in marked contrast to some of the rhetoric coming from the BLM activists.

[oldbluefox]

Interesting article here by Ben Bradley MP for Mansfield