Current Affairs

[Gill W]

I have to agree with Towny. How, in any scenario, is loutish behaviour the government's fault? It is the fault of the louts. That is not spin.

Ah, I think this is one of those 'misunderstandings' that need 'translation'.

The louts should clearly be held responsible for their own behaviour.

The government should crack down on the anti social idiots - but probably won't, If infections start rising, they'll spin it to blame 'the people', and not government lack of action.

[screwy]

Loutish behaviour does stem from government,the labour government who said , you can’t smack your child, there are no losers in sports at school etc etc, remember those days.? It has all come back to haunt us. We now have a generation or two who don’t give a toss, no respect for anyone or anything,stick two fingers up to authority,would prefer to let everyone else run round after them, and as soon as someone says ,we’re going to change this attitude all hell breaks loose from the snowflakes. I would personally love to see This Government get a firm grip and stick to fingers up to the moaners.PC , shove it up your a*se, let’s get real. Give the Police and Army the powers to brush away unruly protesters, if someone gets hurt, tough, look for trouble,you’ll find it.Water cannon,Yes. Rubber bullets, tear gas and Baton charges. I know some on here will go all wobbly wth disgust but look into the future, it will be a lot worse if we don’t get a grip of these thugs.

As we’re talking about ,thuggish,loutish behaviour. Ban alcohol, barbecues etc. Employ council beach patrols ,after all , I’m sure they would rather be patrolling the beach than fining people for dropping a cigarette but.! Anyone found with said items would be fined and items confiscated. I know it would be difficult but not insurmountable.
But I was referring mainly to Rioters etc.
What would you do about the idiots on the beaches?

[screwy]

I thoroughly agree with you, we should all be responsible for our actions, do we really need authorities to hold our hands and lead the way.?

[Mervyn and Trish]

I have to agree with Towny. How, in any scenario, is loutish behaviour the government's fault? It is the fault of the louts. That is not spin.

Ah, I think this is one of those 'misunderstandings' that need 'translation'.

The louts should clearly be held responsible for their own behaviour.

The government should crack down on the anti social idiots - but probably won't, If infections start rising, they'll spin it to blame 'the people', and not government lack of action.

So give us some guidance. Riot police? Water cannon? Prison sentences? Troops guarding the beaches? The principal is fine. But as has been said above weak government action is not new. The liberal left have got used to having it their own way. If they crack down now, as I think they should too, we'll have more civil strife. It's been bad enough in response to police action in America. What happens if things turn violent here, as they will if the police step in hard. As has already happened in South London. Will you be backing the cops or the demonstrators protesting about their human rights to party on the beach?

[screwy]

You always put it better than me Merv,that’s cos you was educated and I’m just a knuckle dragger.

[Gill W]

I have to agree with Towny. How, in any scenario, is loutish behaviour the government's fault? It is the fault of the louts. That is not spin.

Ah, I think this is one of those 'misunderstandings' that need 'translation'.

The louts should clearly be held responsible for their own behaviour.

The government should crack down on the anti social idiots - but probably won't, If infections start rising, they'll spin it to blame 'the people', and not government lack of action.

So give us some guidance. Riot police? Water cannon? Prison sentences? Troops guarding the beaches? The principal is fine. But as has been said above weak government action is not new. The liberal left have got used to having it their own way. If they crack down now, as I think they should too, we'll have more civil strife. It's been bad enough in response to police action in America. What happens if things turn violent here, as they will if the police step in hard. As has already happened in South London. Will you be backing the cops or the demonstrators protesting about their human rights to party on the beach?

Unfortunately, the genie is out of the bottle now. If they had started with stiff financial penalties for flouting the lockdown it might have kept a lid on it

Whatever they do now, it’ll likely make a bad situation worse.

However, the thought of 500000 people being water cannoned off Bournemouth beach is very satisfying

[Gill W]

I thoroughly agree with you, we should all be responsible for our actions, do we really need authorities to hold our hands and lead the way.?

It seems a section of society does need help in this respect.

[towny44]

Ah, I think this is one of those 'misunderstandings' that need 'translation'.

The louts should clearly be held responsible for their own behaviour.

The government should crack down on the anti social idiots - but probably won't, If infections start rising, they'll spin it to blame 'the people', and not government lack of action.

So give us some guidance. Riot police? Water cannon? Prison sentences? Troops guarding the beaches? The principal is fine. But as has been said above weak government action is not new. The liberal left have got used to having it their own way. If they crack down now, as I think they should too, we'll have more civil strife. It's been bad enough in response to police action in America. What happens if things turn violent here, as they will if the police step in hard. As has already happened in South London. Will you be backing the cops or the demonstrators protesting about their human rights to party on the beach?

Unfortunately, the genie is out of the bottle now. If they had started with stiff financial penalties for flouting the lockdown it might have kept a lid on it

Whatever they do now, it’ll likely make a bad situation worse.

However, the thought of 500000 people being water cannoned off Bournemouth beach is very satisfying

Oh I understand Gill you would not start from here, which is a great way to avoid answering Merv's very valid question.
All I can add is that it's a b****y good job you're not leading the Govt.

[Manoverboard]

I would like to think Cummings doesn't have absolute power.... but I think we have moved beyond that. He's running the whole show now and that is a worrying thought.

Pure speculation on your part ... no translation should be required

[david63]

I think the only way to look at the impact of COVID 19 is to look at the excess deaths for all causes of death

Not necessarily - as I have said before the only way to look at it is total deaths from any cause for the whole year, and even then the number of deaths attributed to Covid-19 can, at best, only be a guesstimate.

[oldbluefox]

I wonder when Cummings was driving north he thought "S** it. If Stephen Kinnock can do it, and Tahir Alli can attend a funeral, and Kevan Jones can attend a birthday party there shouldn't be a problem. OK they don't like me because I masterminded Boris' election and they don't like him cos he's vowed to take us out of the EU but the precedents have already been set and nobody's mentioned a dicky bird."
Strange isn't it how the Boris haters never mention those three.

All of this talk of blaming Cummings for the crowds ignoring social distancing is a load of codswallop. I wonder how many of those using Cummings as an excuse for their own behaviour or who say their cause is worth it will be saying the same when they are lying in intensive care on a ventilator.

[Quizzical Bob]

I wonder when Cummings was driving north he thought "S** it. If Stephen Kinnock can do it, and Tahir Alli can attend a funeral, and Kevan Jones can attend a birthday party there shouldn't be a problem. OK they don't like me because I masterminded Boris' election and they don't like him cos he's vowed to take us out of the EU but the precedents have already been set and nobody's mentioned a dicky bird."
Strange isn't it how the Boris haters never mention those three.

All of this talk of blaming Cummings for the crowds ignoring social distancing is a load of codswallop. I wonder how many of those using Cummings as an excuse for their own behaviour or who say their cause is worth it will be saying the same when they are lying in intensive care on a ventilator.

The big and important difference with Cummings was that he fled north with a carload of infectious people. He and his wife actually had the virus at the time and she even visited the local hospital with their son at the height of her illness despite having gone there in case the lad needed help.

There’s a big difference with the others who didn’t actually have the disease.

Personally I think the whole lockdown palaver has been way over the top. There has been no analysis of which aspects of it were significant and which were a waste of time.

[screwy]

A woman in Liverpool was interviewed on Friday evening,she had been outside Analfield on Thursday night celebrating with thousands of others. When asked if she was worried about the virus,she said ‘ I don’t care,we’ve won the league’ and there you have it. She would have been in her late fifties,so obviously not a daft kid..We’ll..? Is it any wonder the virus spreads.

[oldbluefox]

The big and important difference with Cummings was that he fled north with a carload of infectious people. He and his wife actually had the virus at the time and she even visited the local hospital with their son at the height of her illness despite having gone there in case the lad needed help.

There’s a big difference with the others who didn’t actually have the disease.

Personally I think the whole lockdown palaver has been way over the top. There has been no analysis of which aspects of it were significant and which were a waste of time.

Who else was in this carload of people?
The difference is there is no evidence Cummings came into contact with none other than his own family (no evidence either that his wife had it) whereas Alli went to a funeral of a reported 100 other mourners and I presume there were more than Kevan Jones at the birthday party. So I presume that's fine in your mind that they could not transmit the disease and their actions were fine.
But of course we all know the real gripe you have with Cummings don't we?

[oldbluefox]

Two weeks after the BLM protests in Leicester they are now suffering a spike in cases. Local lockdown is being considered but as they say, the cause is worth it. No cause is worth risking your life or the lives of your loved ones for. Hopefully there will be no increased deaths.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Personally I think the whole lockdown palaver has been way over the top.

Okay. Now I'm really confused.

May I refer you to your post 2369?

"Lockdown should have started two or three weeks earlier and as for allowing Cheltenham to go ahead words fail me"

[Mervyn and Trish]

All of this talk of blaming Cummings for the crowds ignoring social distancing is a load of codswallop.

I agree. I don't like Cunmings.. I think he was stupid.

But if you asked all the people on the beach at Bournemouth, at Anfield or partying in Brixton why they were there I doubt you find any who say "because Dominic Cummings went to Barnard Castle.

A number of us have said we're remaining cautious. I've not seen any posts that say "sod it, Dom went to Durham. I'm going to the pub."

Even the most self indulgent hack knows "yesterday's news is today's chip paper".

[Mervyn and Trish]

I think the only way to look at the impact of COVID 19 is to look at the excess deaths for all causes of death

Not necessarily - as I have said before the only way to look at it is total deaths from any cause for the whole year, and even then the number of deaths attributed to Covid-19 can, at best, only be a guesstimate.

Spot on. The experts all acknowledge it's a difficult calculation. Yes there have been 10s of thousands of Covid deaths but exactly how many is tricky. The excess deaths comparison is hard because we can only look at a past average and we've had good and bad years before. And they say that over a full 12-24 months the number may be less stark than it looks now. Sadly many of those who died were in their final weeks or months anyway so their death may have been accelerated but not entirely unexpected. We may see lower than usual deaths later on.

[anniec]

Who else was in this carload of people?
The difference is there is no evidence Cummings came into contact with none other than his own family (no evidence either that his wife had it) whereas Alli went to a funeral of a reported 100 other mourners and I presume there were more than Kevan Jones at the birthday party. So I presume that's fine in your mind that they could not transmit the disease and their actions were fine.
But of course we all know the real gripe you have with Cummings don't we?

Plenty of evidence his wife had it - she said so herself in an article written for (I think) The Spectator.

The difference is that Cummings was part of the government machine making the rules. The others you mention were not, though that's no excuse.

[oldbluefox]

Although she had symptoms I could find no evidence his wife actually had it in any of the reports.

Like Merv I don't like him as a person and his journey up to Durham was ill considered so it wasn't the best idea for the reasons you have stated but that does not excuse the others.

[Onelife]

Although she had symptoms I could find no evidence his wife actually had it in any of the reports.

Like Merv I don't like him as a person and his journey up to Durham was ill considered so it wasn't the best idea for the reasons you have stated but that does not excuse the others.

That was my understanding also.

[Mervyn and Trish]

The difference is that Cummings was part of the government machine making the rules. The others you mention were not, though that's no excuse.

The other difference is that whipped on by the media the police investigated Cunmings and concluded his journey to Durham broke no rules and his jaunt to Barnard Castle was a minor infringement which, had he been stopped, would have resulted in advice to return to home.

The others were breaking the rules.

[Gill W]

Oh I understand Gill you would not start from here, which is a great way to avoid answering Merv's very valid question.
All I can add is that it's a b****y good job you're not leading the Govt.

I can answer in any way I want.i don’t have to spend hours constructing answers to cover every minute detail of of every post.

I didn’t comment earlier when you chose to make your post this morning about me, and avoid addressing the subject of Jenrick, People in glass houses?

As for your last comment, that’s just silly, and I’m not going waste time on it.

[Gill W]

I think the only way to look at the impact of COVID 19 is to look at the excess deaths for all causes of death

Not necessarily - as I have said before the only way to look at it is total deaths from any cause for the whole year, and even then the number of deaths attributed to Covid-19 can, at best, only be a guesstimate.

Ok, let’s look at in December and ignore for the moment that 65000 more people than usual have died so far

[Gill W]

I would like to think Cummings doesn't have absolute power.... but I think we have moved beyond that. He's running the whole show now and that is a worrying thought.

Pure speculation on your part ... no translation should be required

Well, Sedwill has ‘agreed’ to go, and Cummings crony David Frost is to take over as National Security Advisor, so I’ll continue to speculate