Current Affairs

[Kendhni]

My feeling is that the government has relied too heavily on believing the British people will do the right thing. I don't share that confidence and, as an example, lockdown should have been applied much stricter.

Have to agree, I have always found that as soon as I credit someone with intelligence they will find some way to prove me wrong. You only have to look at the behaviour on beaches, pubs, holiday and even in shops. A revision of the old 'oh but they are family so it doesn't count' ... or 'if it is good enough for Cummings'.

One of the neighbours was telling me yesterday that they were on the train and one woman was not wearing a facemask. The conductor told her that she should be wearing one to which she replied 'what are you going to do about it?' ... the basic answer is nothing anyone can do about it (without breaking the law themselves).

[Stephen]

There is an assumption that what other countries have done is right, assumptions which are totally unfounded or unachievable given population, levels of administering measures, population densities or different cultures. Apples and pears.
Likewise the Boris bashers will see that nothing the government does or has done is laudable whilst the Boris supporters will see nothing wrong. The truth lies somewhere in the middle, as it will with the governments of all other countries.
I don't believe that how the government has handled the Covid situation covers them in glory but neither do I believe the 'crass incompetence' theory either. My feeling is that the government has relied too heavily on believing the British people will do the right thing. I don't share that confidence and, as an example, lockdown should have been applied much stricter.

Another balanced response Foxy

Oh! I don’t suppose you could have a word with towny as he’s threatening to punch my lights out…squeak! Squeak!

Not before time

[Kendhni]

Oh! I don’t suppose you could have a word with towny as he’s threatening to punch my lights out…squeak! Squeak!

If you need a pair of mittens to symbolically remove, just let me know and I will post you a pair.

[Onelife]

It is those using the power of hindsight who try to rewrite history Ken. Many of the things you say are true. We were late to do some things. But much of the evidence to do them wasn't there at the time. Not just us. The world didn't understand this new virus. And now the government is acting decisively to impose quarantine on returnees from countries with fast rising rates people are bleating about that too. And Towny we don't agree on everything. According to the excellent Kings/Zoe research app infection rates here are pretty stable at present. They've more than doubled in France in the last ten days. Though of course the Boris bashers won't agree we're doing anything better than France or Spain. They have it all under control.

Sir Merv….had the Government acted decisively they would have banned holiday traffic to infected countries weeks ago. With hindsight comes the ability to see where you have been and the ability to anticipate where you are going…the traffic light system presently being used is another car crash waiting to happen imo.

[Manoverboard]

Oh! I don’t suppose you could have a word with towny as he’s threatening to punch my lights out…squeak! Squeak!

If you need a pair of mittens to symbolically remove, just let me know and I will post you a pair.

Being ravaged by a sheep comes to mind for some reason

[Onelife]

Oh! I don’t suppose you could have a word with towny as he’s threatening to punch my lights out…squeak! Squeak!

If you need a pair of mittens to symbolically remove, just let me know and I will post you a pair.

That’s very sparring of you Ken

[Onelife]

Oh! I don’t suppose you could have a word with towny as he’s threatening to punch my lights out…squeak! Squeak!

If you need a pair of mittens to symbolically remove, just let me know and I will post you a pair.

Being ravaged by a sheep comes to mind for some reason

You should be Baaaared for that comment
.

[towny44]

I only go to the Doctor to discuss an ailment, I don’t enquire about ppe or government advice. If he/she has time for that then maybe they could treat you and fit in another patient....

Being flippant I know..

The advantages of having a private GP, they aren't all 'yeah yeah yeah, here are some pills, good bye" and trying to get you out of the door as quick as they can - they actually care about their patients both medically and mentally.

Equally flippant

We must be very fortunate then, my DW and I were only commenting earlier this week how we never have the reported problems making appointments with our GPs practise. The new regime is to try and sort things out via phone, video or e-mailing photos, if it can't be resolved that way we quickly receive an appointment, which is now far more likely to be on time, even though the previous system never had lengthy delays.

[Kendhni]

I only go to the Doctor to discuss an ailment, I don’t enquire about ppe or government advice. If he/she has time for that then maybe they could treat you and fit in another patient....

Being flippant I know..

The advantages of having a private GP, they aren't all 'yeah yeah yeah, here are some pills, good bye" and trying to get you out of the door as quick as they can - they actually care about their patients both medically and mentally.

Equally flippant

We must be very fortunate then, my DW and I were only commenting earlier this week how we never have the reported problems making appointments with our GPs practise. The new regime is to try and sort things out via phone, video or e-mailing photos, if it can't be resolved that way we quickly receive an appointment, which is now far more likely to be on time, even though the previous system never had lengthy delays.

We would actually be similar now - more likely to be triaged by phone/zoom (although I have been given an invite to the surgery on Monday. Having experienced this I think it is actually the way forward for GP consultation (I have always thought that doctors waiting rooms have to be very unhealthy).

I am actually just off my weekly call with the doctor, something she said was that the second wave is coming, they are currently planning for the next lockdown (in addition to another winter lockdown) and their surgery is not allowed to come out of lockdown until AT LEAST Feb 2021 (the use of the words 'not allowed' was interesting).

I think it is Google that has told its staff that they plan to continue the working from home until next July. My own company had been looking at September before starting a back to office initiative, but given the current 'safety at work' rules the office will only support about 50% of the staff (and even then only for 4 days per week). More recently they seem to be hinting towards the start of next year before reviewing again. The current push towards back-to-office is for those that do not have a good working environment at home (e.g. shared house, living alone, working on a fold out table at the end of their bed etc.)

[oldbluefox]

Sir Merv….had the Government acted decisively they would have banned holiday traffic to infected countries weeks ago. With hindsight comes the ability to see where you have been and the ability to anticipate where you are going…the traffic light system presently being used is another car crash waiting to happen imo.

Can you imagine the outcry had they done that? Sir Keir would have been all over it, the Press would have denounced it as draconian, human rights would have come into the equation somewhere along the line and all the snowflakes would have been bemoaning they would be denied a holiday which they needed or deserved.God help us if we had a war such as our ancestors lived through.
When I look at our lockdown measures compared to the likes of Spain or better still Dubai (my niece has just returned from there) the strength of our lockdown measures are a joke and to hear our police 'service' educating people rather than fining them underlines that point. I see our Covid figures and cannot discount the government's actions but more so I blame the great British public who could not/cannot/will not follow the gentle guidance being given. Ken's reference to 'the behaviour on beaches, pubs, holiday and even in shops. A revision of the old 'oh but they are family so it doesn't count' ... or 'if it is good enough for Cummings' explains why Covid has been so rampant and ultimately why there are so many deaths. In that sense it is a shared responsibility and we will never be far away from infection whilst the clowns continue to think they are immune.
I see there is a greater degree of infection amongst the under 35s. I wonder why? I feel particularly bitter having just experienced almost six months in shielding, lost three holidays and am now in danger of having to go into lockdown again all for the behaviour of the selfish ones. There are people who cannot get the operations they need because of the actions of the selfish ones. But hey! What does it matter? They need to get out and enjoy themselves and b****r everybody else. Welcome to selfish Britain, but we can always blame everybody else!!!
Rant over. Am going to have a lie down in a darkened room.

[david63]

The whole point about what the Government did and when they did it is that nobody will ever know if it could have been done better as there is no benchmark.

If what the Government did appeared to have a better outcome than other countries then the Government would be being praised by everybody. For all we, or anybody else knows, the actions that the Government took, at the time that they took them, may have had a better outcome than if they had done things differently - we will never know.

The problem is that it is impossible to make any comparisons between countries as there are far too many variables.

I am pretty sure that the Government will, in fact has, admitted that they would do things differently if they had to go down this route again (which hopefully nobody ever will) - but if that was the case then, in all probability, the circumstances will be different.

As for "allowing" flights in from other countries in the early stages then, as has been said before, the vast majority of those were UK citizens returning home.

Again nobody knows what would have happened if the Labour Party were in control being led by Corbyn but based on his previous performance he did appear to be somewhat incapable of actually making a decision.

[oldbluefox]

I actually prefer the new system of triage at the doctor's surgery. It cuts out all the timewasters and if you need to see a nurse or a doctor the appointments are more readily available.
I recently had a pacemaker fitted and found I was allergic to the plaster they put on. I was treated the same day. On other occasions there has been no problem getting an appointment if needed. Usually you spend half an hour even trying to get through.

[david63]

the use of the words 'not allowed' was interesting

But you are talking about NI where there are different rules.

I really cannot understand why England, Scotland, Wales and NI all have a different set of rules - none of that helps and only adds to the general confusion.

[david63]

I actually prefer the new system of triage at the doctor's surgery. It cuts out all the timewasters and if you need to see a nurse or a doctor the appointments are more readily available.
I recently had a pacemaker fitted and found I was allergic to the plaster they put on. I was treated the same day. On other occasions there has been no problem getting an appointment if needed. Usually you spend half an hour even trying to get through.

But I cannot understand what is going on with the GPs.

I have an appointment in a couple of weeks to have a minor procedure done at the local hospital and I was told that seven to ten days later make an appointment at my GP's to have the stitches removed. So I spent 40 minutes on the phone in a queue only to be told that the treatment rooms are closed but I can go to another clinic (which was no problem). However I am able to go for a blood test for my annual health check!

[towny44]

I think it is Google that has told its staff that they plan to continue the working from home until next July. My own company had been looking at September before starting a back to office initiative, but given the current 'safety at work' rules the office will only support about 50% of the staff (and even then only for 4 days per week). More recently they seem to be hinting towards the start of next year before reviewing again. The current push towards back-to-office is for those that do not have a good working environment at home (e.g. shared house, living alone, working on a fold out table at the end of their bed etc.)

According to the media we are out of step with the rest of Europe, where most returnees seem to be heading back to the office, and of course Rishi blames our reluctance to do this as the main reason our economy is lagging behind theirs.

[Manoverboard]

The advantages of having a private GP, they aren't all 'yeah yeah yeah, here are some pills, good bye" and trying to get you out of the door as quick as they can - they actually care about their patients both medically and mentally.

Our Doctor is pure NHS but has never paid any attention to his watch when discussing medical matters with either of us. I can say however that the same is not true with consultants when far more time and attention applies when one takes the Private Road.

[Mervyn and Trish]

The calls from other parties were there...

That is simply untrue. Both the Lib Dems and Labour were licking their wounds and too busy choosing new leaders after being thrashed in the election. They were invisible.

The scientist, Neil Ferguson, who first said we should lockdown (and then broke it go get his mistress round for a bit of nookie) did so one week before it happened. It could not be achieved overnight as there were provisions that had to be put in place to support vulnerable people in their homes and the economy. So it took a week.

Yes, with hindsight, despite you hating that word, we could have done things differently. As could other countries. (If China had locked down completely in October maybe this pandemic would never have happened). But the government hoped initially to tackle it in a different (and less damaging to the economy) way and switched tack when it was clear that wasn't going to be sustainable. Too late yes. But if Plan A had worked we'd have been a New Zealand by now.

Knowing what we now know we should have ordered all over 65s and all people with vulnerabilities to stay at home from 1st January and told all the rest to get on with running the economy. By now we'd have a lot more cases, a lot fewer deaths, and much less debt.

I'm not pretending we got everything right. We certainly didn't. But equally I don't believe Starmer, Corbyn or even you could have done better. It's always easier to be the critic or the opposition than the person making the decisions.

If Boris did one thing wrong it is this. As soon as it was clear what we were facing I'd have got the leaders of all the other parties in the room and said "this is bigger than politics. I want you to send me your best people and your best ideas to form a cross-party group to think this through."

But he didn't. And all the shouting now is all about politics.

[david63]

But if Plan A had worked we'd have been a New Zealand by now.

And that is not without its problems, and critics.

[screwy]

To get the opposition to send their best people would be a tad difficult.? Have you seen their benches....

Although I do agree Merv,it is bigger than Politics and those on Forumswho think they know better.

[Mervyn and Trish]

People on this forum have no power to do anything until there is a General Election and are entitled to their views, whether or not I agree with them.

It's the politicians who anger me. There is no point at all in saying "this is what we should have done yesterday and this what the government did wrong." We are where we are.

All they are doping by taking a pop at the government is giving encouragement to the population to dissent and do their own thing. Labour are famously in favour of the right of people to demonstrate, until they are in government and the demonstrations are against them.

I would have much more respect for Starmer and co if they had the balls (and the intelligence) to stand up and say "This is what we should do now and tomorrow." With detail and budgets. Not just "the government need to do more blah blah".

[Stephen]

It'll never change, it's just what opposite parties do.

[towny44]

The latest issue for Starmer to clobber the govt with is the exam results. But AFAIK the team that chose the marking system contained teachers as well as exam board members and they came up with an algorithm that produced a 3% increase in top grades and more pupils getting their first choice university, which was what their remit required.
Clearly it was going to produce problem results round the edges, where schools fell way outside the average range, but I am sure they expected that might happen, however they presumably thought this was the best compromise in the circumstances. I just wish Boris had chosen a tougher education minister, and one who wasn't so damned boring.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Are the pupils who got better results than they expected complaining or just those who got worse ones than they hoped? Just asking.....

[Stephen]

Just those who got worse results than they had expected. Somehow I can't see divey Dave complaing if he got three AAA's for just turning up . It might look a bit suspicious though when he goes for a job on the bins.

[Clophill4]

After "downgrading" 30 or 40% of results there is still a 3% increase in top grades. When is somebody going to ask why the teachers got their estimates so badly wrong?