Life After Brexit

[Ray Scully]

Ken,
Duplicitous incompetent,dissimulator, the evidence of his premiership and before bears witness to all those character traits, but I don't think you would ever convince some of our friends on this thread.

[Manoverboard]

Why would you believe that we would wish to change our minds or expect us to believe that we may have made some terrible mistake by voting to leave the EU on the basis of your own preferred alliances. My thoughts are that if the attempts to convince any of us of the error of our ways was done without aggression and dogma and was presented in the style of a Barney or a Merv rather than as an instruction to the demented then there may, albeit unlikely, be a chance. Putting Bojo down does little more than to reinforce our view that he was, warts and all, still a far better option than Comrade Corbyn and chums.

[Ray Scully]

Why would you believe that we would wish to change our minds or expect us to believe that we may have made some terrible mistake by voting to leave the EU on the basis of your own preferred alliances. My thoughts are that if the attempts to convince any of us of the error of our ways was done without aggression and dogma and was presented in the style of a Barney or a Merv rather than as an instruction to the demented then there may, albeit unlikely, be a chance. Putting Bojo down does little more than to reinforce our view that he was, warts and all, still a far better option than Comrade Corbyn and chums.

Comrade Corbyn and his puppeteer Seumas Milne were a disaster for British politics.

[barney]

That was the choice,
Useless Johnson
Useless Corbyn
Useless Libdem lady that nobody can remember.
Two of the three were pro Brexit.
Useless Johnson won by a landslide.
Everything else is irrelevant.

[Manoverboard]

Why would you believe that we would wish to change our minds or expect us to believe that we may have made some terrible mistake by voting to leave the EU on the basis of your own preferred alliances. My thoughts are that if the attempts to convince any of us of the error of our ways was done without aggression and dogma and was presented in the style of a Barney or a Merv rather than as an instruction to the demented then there may, albeit unlikely, be a chance. Putting Bojo down does little more than to reinforce our view that he was, warts and all, still a far better option than Comrade Corbyn and chums.

Comrade Corbyn and his puppeteer Seumas Milne were a disaster for British politics.

Because of their political bias or the picture that was painted by the latter of the former, ie purely an image problem ?

[Ray Scully]

Why would you believe that we would wish to change our minds or expect us to believe that we may have made some terrible mistake by voting to leave the EU on the basis of your own preferred alliances. My thoughts are that if the attempts to convince any of us of the error of our ways was done without aggression and dogma and was presented in the style of a Barney or a Merv rather than as an instruction to the demented then there may, albeit unlikely, be a chance. Putting Bojo down does little more than to reinforce our view that he was, warts and all, still a far better option than Comrade Corbyn and chums.

Comrade Corbyn and his puppeteer Seumas Milne were a disaster for British politics.

Because of their political bias or the picture that was painted by the latter of the former, ie purely an image problem ?

A lot of both

[Kendhni]

Ken,
Duplicitous incompetent,dissimulator, the evidence of his premiership and before bears witness to all those character traits, but I don't think you would ever convince some of our friends on this thread.

Hi Ray
When people get totally invested in lies it becomes more and more difficult for them to detach from those lies because they feel they lose face (it is actually easier for people to admit that they were wrong than it is for them to admit they were fooled). That is why I do not ask or expect people to change their minds. I only ask them to justify their position.

In the last 4 years I have not heard a single logical argument for brexit that provides an overall verifiable tangible benefit to the UK. Even their own leadership have failed to produce any real verifiable and tangible benefits ... apart from new custom forms, blue passports and a new 50p piece (how did we ever live without those) ... oh and a WA that they are furiously back pedalling from.

The problem is that every time you get close to figuring out what brexit actually means they move the flamin goal posts ... I think we are up to 18 different forms of brexit, 1 referendum, 2 general elections, 3 PMs, and about 30 votes in HoC and they still still haven't managed to elicit 'the right answer' ... maybe a few more votes will help).

The latest revelations where either Johnson lied to the people (in which case one should be asking what else has he lied about) or Johnson is crassly incompetent (in which case one has to ask what else has been missed) does not bode well for one of the biggest political upheavals in the UK in decades. I actually think it means that once Johnson has run out of meaningless sound-bites he will be out the door.

[Ray Scully]

That was the choice,
Useless Johnson
Useless Corbyn
Useless Libdem lady that nobody can remember.
Two of the three were pro Brexit.
Useless Johnson won by a landslide.
Everything else is irrelevant.

Well Barney the outcomes going forward may not be irrelevant for many

[Ray Scully]

Ken,
Duplicitous incompetent,dissimulator, the evidence of his premiership and before bears witness to all those character traits, but I don't think you would ever convince some of our friends on this thread.

Hi Ray
When people get totally invested in lies it becomes more and more difficult for them to detach from those lies because they feel they lose face (it is actually easier for people to admit that they were wrong than it is for them to admit they were fooled). That is why I do not ask or expect people to change their minds. I only ask them to justify their position.

In the last 4 years I have not heard a single logical argument for brexit that provides an overall verifiable tangible benefit to the UK. Even their own leadership have failed to produce any real verifiable and tangible benefits ... apart from new custom forms, blue passports and a new 50p piece (how did we ever live without those) ... oh and a WA that they are furiously back pedalling from.

The problem is that every time you get close to figuring out what brexit actually means they move the flamin goal posts ... I think we are up to 18 different forms of brexit, 1 referendum, 2 general elections, 3 PMs, and about 30 votes in HoC and they still still haven't managed to elicit 'the right answer' ... maybe a few more votes will help).

The latest revelations where either Johnson lied to the people (in which case one should be asking what else has he lied about) or Johnson is crassly incompetent (in which case one has to ask what else has been missed) does not bode well for one of the biggest political upheavals in the UK in decades. I actually think it means that once Johnson has run out of meaningless sound-bites he will be out the door.

and who would replace him Ken, Machiavellian Gove
.

[Gill W]

Why would you believe that we would wish to change our minds or expect us to believe that we may have made some terrible mistake by voting to leave the EU on the basis of your own preferred alliances. My thoughts are that if the attempts to convince any of us of the error of our ways was done without aggression and dogma and was presented in the style of a Barney or a Merv rather than as an instruction to the demented then there may, albeit unlikely, be a chance. Putting Bojo down does little more than to reinforce our view that he was, warts and all, still a far better option than Comrade Corbyn and chums.

Do you mean the Barney who, when reporting the (agreed in principle) Japanese trade deal, apropos of nothing couldn’t restrain himself from having a snipe at ‘remoaners’? THAT Barney?

[Manoverboard]

Why would you believe that we would wish to change our minds or expect us to believe that we may have made some terrible mistake by voting to leave the EU on the basis of your own preferred alliances. My thoughts are that if the attempts to convince any of us of the error of our ways was done without aggression and dogma and was presented in the style of a Barney or a Merv rather than as an instruction to the demented then there may, albeit unlikely, be a chance. Putting Bojo down does little more than to reinforce our view that he was, warts and all, still a far better option than Comrade Corbyn and chums.

Do you mean the Barney who, when reporting the (agreed in principle) Japanese trade deal, apropos of nothing couldn’t restrain himself from having a snipe at ‘remoaners’? THAT Barney?

Subject to a Post Number ... Yep, that could be the one .... he's a good ol boy don'tcha think
.

[Kendhni]

Ken,
Duplicitous incompetent,dissimulator, the evidence of his premiership and before bears witness to all those character traits, but I don't think you would ever convince some of our friends on this thread.

Hi Ray
When people get totally invested in lies it becomes more and more difficult for them to detach from those lies because they feel they lose face (it is actually easier for people to admit that they were wrong than it is for them to admit they were fooled). That is why I do not ask or expect people to change their minds. I only ask them to justify their position.

In the last 4 years I have not heard a single logical argument for brexit that provides an overall verifiable tangible benefit to the UK. Even their own leadership have failed to produce any real verifiable and tangible benefits ... apart from new custom forms, blue passports and a new 50p piece (how did we ever live without those) ... oh and a WA that they are furiously back pedalling from.

The problem is that every time you get close to figuring out what brexit actually means they move the flamin goal posts ... I think we are up to 18 different forms of brexit, 1 referendum, 2 general elections, 3 PMs, and about 30 votes in HoC and they still still haven't managed to elicit 'the right answer' ... maybe a few more votes will help).

The latest revelations where either Johnson lied to the people (in which case one should be asking what else has he lied about) or Johnson is crassly incompetent (in which case one has to ask what else has been missed) does not bode well for one of the biggest political upheavals in the UK in decades. I actually think it means that once Johnson has run out of meaningless sound-bites he will be out the door.

and who would replace him Ken, Machiavellian Gove
.

The million dollar question.

[barney]

Ken,
Duplicitous incompetent,dissimulator, the evidence of his premiership and before bears witness to all those character traits, but I don't think you would ever convince some of our friends on this thread.

Hi Ray
When people get totally invested in lies it becomes more and more difficult for them to detach from those lies because they feel they lose face (it is actually easier for people to admit that they were wrong than it is for them to admit they were fooled). That is why I do not ask or expect people to change their minds. I only ask them to justify their position.

In the last 4 years I have not heard a single logical argument for brexit that provides an overall verifiable tangible benefit to the UK. Even their own leadership have failed to produce any real verifiable and tangible benefits ... apart from new custom forms, blue passports and a new 50p piece (how did we ever live without those) ... oh and a WA that they are furiously back pedalling from.

The problem is that every time you get close to figuring out what brexit actually means they move the flamin goal posts ... I think we are up to 18 different forms of brexit, 1 referendum, 2 general elections, 3 PMs, and about 30 votes in HoC and they still still haven't managed to elicit 'the right answer' ... maybe a few more votes will help).

The latest revelations where either Johnson lied to the people (in which case one should be asking what else has he lied about) or Johnson is crassly incompetent (in which case one has to ask what else has been missed) does not bode well for one of the biggest political upheavals in the UK in decades. I actually think it means that once Johnson has run out of meaningless sound-bites he will be out the door.

On that we can agree Ken.
I’d love to see the back of Johnson the minute has has finished what he was elected to do.

£8 billion deficit net payments Is enough for me .
We pay £8 billion more than we take out and have an £80 billion trade deficit with the Eu bloc.
It’s a blooming expensive club to belong to.
Imagine had we not left, we would have definitely scuppered the Eu covid bailout agreement and pushed us further to the margins.
Our cut would have been somewhere around £100 billion by all accounts.
It’s a money pit and they have used us as a cash point.
Things had to change and they have.

[screwy]

Sunak will be the next leader and pm.

[barney]

Sunak will be the next leader and pm.

No doubt in my mind.
That will make it more difficult for Sir K but it will be a lot closer.

[Manoverboard]

Sunak will be the next leader and pm.

No doubt in my mind.
That will make it more difficult for Sir K but it will be a lot closer.

I don't think so ... too much to do sorting out the economy and then he needs a spell at the Foreign Office, only after that can he be evaluated for suitability to the top job.

[Kendhni]

£8 billion deficit net payments Is enough for me .
We pay £8 billion more than we take out and have an £80 billion trade deficit with the Eu bloc.
It’s a blooming expensive club to belong to.

A very poor attempt there barney, the trade deficit is the trade deficit irrespective of where it comes from. It means we imported more from somewhere than we exported. Brexit does not change that, we would still have to source those goods elsewhere - possibly more expensive meaning brexit increases the deficit (which is pretty much what every model, including Minford, shows).

Your net £8billion membership is about right (equates to just over £400 per UK household per year) ... it makes a mockery of the £350million per week Johnson promised the NHS. This total is less than 0.5% of GDP yet provides a verifiable tangible benefit of 5-8% to our GDP (depending on which number you wish to believe). So far brexit has cost every household about £10K (based on costs already published by the government) and it is estimated that brexit will require an annual run rate of over £5K per UK household going forward (and increasing). That sounds like blooming expensive/stupid way to save £400.

Imagine had we not left, we would have definitely scuppered the Eu covid bailout agreement and pushed us further to the margins.
Our cut would have been somewhere around £100 billion by all accounts.
It’s a money pit and they have used us as a cash point.
Things had to change and they have.

And there is the problem. You can not, in any seriousness, rely on something you have totally made up. We have no idea what our contribution may have been or how it compares to the billions that Johnson has spent on COVID in the UK.

So my earlier post still stands 100%

[screwy]

Starmer being a Barrister is a good actor, like all Barristers are and I’ve seen a few in action when I’ve been a Dock Officer. I have yet to see/ hear him come up up with a quality statement on what Liebour would do differently during this mess. All we ever get from He and his front bench is..’ We need more clarity from the Government’.

[towny44]

Ken,
Duplicitous incompetent,dissimulator, the evidence of his premiership and before bears witness to all those character traits, but I don't think you would ever convince some of our friends on this thread.

Hi Ray
When people get totally invested in lies it becomes more and more difficult for them to detach from those lies because they feel they lose face (it is actually easier for people to admit that they were wrong than it is for them to admit they were fooled). That is why I do not ask or expect people to change their minds. I only ask them to justify their position.

In the last 4 years I have not heard a single logical argument for brexit that provides an overall verifiable tangible benefit to the UK. Even their own leadership have failed to produce any real verifiable and tangible benefits ... apart from new custom forms, blue passports and a new 50p piece (how did we ever live without those) ... oh and a WA that they are furiously back pedalling from.

The problem is that every time you get close to figuring out what brexit actually means they move the flamin goal posts ... I think we are up to 18 different forms of brexit, 1 referendum, 2 general elections, 3 PMs, and about 30 votes in HoC and they still still haven't managed to elicit 'the right answer' ... maybe a few more votes will help).

The latest revelations where either Johnson lied to the people (in which case one should be asking what else has he lied about) or Johnson is crassly incompetent (in which case one has to ask what else has been missed) does not bode well for one of the biggest political upheavals in the UK in decades. I actually think it means that once Johnson has run out of meaningless sound-bites he will be out the door.

Ken, why must you judge everything by a financial benefit, for me just being free of the EU and the federal roller coaster is benefit enough for me, even if you could prove that we will be financially worse off once we leave.

[Gill W]

After 4 years, I still haven’t found out how Brexit would tangibly improve my life.

Barney has just confirmed what I’ve always suspected - it’s about intangibles.

Even if it trashes the country and our international reputation, it’s apparently fine if some people feel free’.

[barney]

Absolutely correct Gill

A free independent country isn’t an anomaly.
It’s considered normal all around the world except in the narrow constraints of belonging to the Eu.

No serious economy would sign up these days.
It’s attractive to poor, supplicant countries looking for a financial bailout.
The world has moved on, the Eu hasn’t.
Even the most committed EU advocates are saying that it needs looking at. Ref Mr Verhofstadt this week.

[Kendhni]

Ken,
Duplicitous incompetent,dissimulator, the evidence of his premiership and before bears witness to all those character traits, but I don't think you would ever convince some of our friends on this thread.

Hi Ray
When people get totally invested in lies it becomes more and more difficult for them to detach from those lies because they feel they lose face (it is actually easier for people to admit that they were wrong than it is for them to admit they were fooled). That is why I do not ask or expect people to change their minds. I only ask them to justify their position.

In the last 4 years I have not heard a single logical argument for brexit that provides an overall verifiable tangible benefit to the UK. Even their own leadership have failed to produce any real verifiable and tangible benefits ... apart from new custom forms, blue passports and a new 50p piece (how did we ever live without those) ... oh and a WA that they are furiously back pedalling from.

The problem is that every time you get close to figuring out what brexit actually means they move the flamin goal posts ... I think we are up to 18 different forms of brexit, 1 referendum, 2 general elections, 3 PMs, and about 30 votes in HoC and they still still haven't managed to elicit 'the right answer' ... maybe a few more votes will help).

The latest revelations where either Johnson lied to the people (in which case one should be asking what else has he lied about) or Johnson is crassly incompetent (in which case one has to ask what else has been missed) does not bode well for one of the biggest political upheavals in the UK in decades. I actually think it means that once Johnson has run out of meaningless sound-bites he will be out the door.

Ken, why must you judge everything by a financial benefit, for me just being free of the EU and the federal roller coaster is benefit enough for me, even if you could prove that we will be financially worse off once we leave.

To be fair I was responding to someone who 'abused' and mis-represented financials.

I do respect that opinion, and I know that the thought of a federal Europe concerns some people (Including some of my own doubts). Is it possible ... yes! Are there currently any formal plans for it to happen ... no! What would it mean to the people of the UK? ... nobody knows!

My criticism of that possible ideology is that it is not how brexit was sold to the people of the UK. We were initially promised a land of milk and honey, but after the referendum the brexit leadership started backing away from such promises.

Why would anybody vote themselves to be poorer because of some ideology (which may or may not take place)? That is basically what we have done on behalf of the next generation? The brexit leadership have used various numbers ranging from 10-30 years before we MIGHT get back to where we are today as far as employment, standard of living etc. are concerned.

I really hope we have not screwed this country up for the next generation.

[barney]

I’m personally hoping that once the dust dies down on Brexit, Scotland and Northern Ireland will be allowed full and fair referendums on whether they wish to remain as part of the U.K..
If Scotland votes for independence, no matter their reasoning, I’ll happily accept that.
If NI decides to form a new nation with Ireland, again I’ll accept that.
Why?
Anti unionist?
Not at all.
A Democrat .
The reason for the majority voting to leave the Eu now means nothing.
It happened.
It’s called democracy.
A very few are still in the trenches.
Give it up.
It’s really a bit embarrassing.

[Ray Scully]

Starmer being a Barrister is a good actor, like all Barristers are and I’ve seen a few in action when I’ve been a Dock Officer. I have yet to see/ hear him come up up with a quality statement on what Labourer would do differently during this mess. All we ever get from He and his front bench is..’ We need more clarity from the Government’.

Screwy you make the bold statement that "all barristers are actors" then qualify it by saying you have seen a few. A close family member is a barrister/'circuit judge and describing her an actor I find very wide of the mark. Apart from that where is the problem? your man told us he has an oven ready deal, why the need need to call on Starmer for advice?

[Ray Scully]

I’m personally hoping that once the dust dies down on Brexit, Scotland and Northern Ireland will be allowed full and fair referendums on whether they wish to remain as part of the U.K..
If Scotland votes for independence, no matter their reasoning, I’ll happily accept that.
If NI decides to form a new nation with Ireland, again I’ll accept that.
Why?
Anti unionist?
Not at all.
A Democrat .
The reason for the majority voting to leave the Eu now means nothing.
It happened.
It’s called democracy.
A very few are still in the trenches.
Give it up.
It’s really a bit embarrassing.

Barney, embarrassing like by winning an election promising we have an oven ready Bexit deal, and then a number of months down the road this disgraceful debacle.