Life After Brexit

[barney]

Oh!
So we’ve gone from the Brexit leadership to a think tank with opinions.

[Kendhni]

I always loved this quote by the brexit leadership
"One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected."

Which one of the Brexit govt ministers said that Ken, and when, and in what context?

That I will have to dig out, It wasn't a government minister it was one of the leave groups that wrote that piece (Leave Alliance???). Remind me later and I will dig it out, it is the summary from an interesting piece about leaving under WTO terms..

Here is the article I referred to.
http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128

I know some people with a lack of understanding or serious lack of comprehension skills might simply try to attack the source but you have to remember that this group (inc. its predecessors) provided a lot of thought leadership into much of the brexit thinking, even before the referendum. The likes of Gove, Raab and Hannan have all made reference to articles from this group. They are probably a lot more liberal than some of the real brexit fanatical groups, but I am sure you would agree that does not make their brexit voice any less worthy of consideration.

[towny44]

Which one of the Brexit govt ministers said that Ken, and when, and in what context?

That I will have to dig out, It wasn't a government minister it was one of the leave groups that wrote that piece (Leave Alliance???). Remind me later and I will dig it out, it is the summary from an interesting piece about leaving under WTO terms..

Here is the article I referred to.
http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128

I know some people with a lack of understanding or serious lack of comprehension skills might simply try to attack the source but you have to remember that this group (inc. its predecessors) provided a lot of thought leadership into much of the brexit thinking, even before the referendum. The likes of Gove, Raab and Hannan have all made reference to articles from this group. They are probably a lot more liberal than some of the real brexit fanatical groups, but I am sure you would agree that does not make their brexit voice any less worthy of consideration.

They make a good case for avoiding a no deal Brexit, which is probably echoed by a majority who voted Conservative in December, as well as most posters on here.
But in no way could it be considered to be the voice of the political brexit leadership, which is how you portrayed the quote, and why I raised the issue with you. You constantly hararangue us to speak the truth and not to dissemble, then you go and make misleading statements, tut tut.

[Kendhni]

That I will have to dig out, It wasn't a government minister it was one of the leave groups that wrote that piece (Leave Alliance???). Remind me later and I will dig it out, it is the summary from an interesting piece about leaving under WTO terms..

Here is the article I referred to.
http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128

I know some people with a lack of understanding or serious lack of comprehension skills might simply try to attack the source but you have to remember that this group (inc. its predecessors) provided a lot of thought leadership into much of the brexit thinking, even before the referendum. The likes of Gove, Raab and Hannan have all made reference to articles from this group. They are probably a lot more liberal than some of the real brexit fanatical groups, but I am sure you would agree that does not make their brexit voice any less worthy of consideration.

They make a good case for avoiding a no deal Brexit, which is probably echoed by a majority who voted Conservative in December, as well as most posters on here.

I agree, plus as Mr Gove put it "We didn't vote to leave without a deal. That wasn't the message of the campaign I helped to lead.".

But in no way could it be considered to be the voice of the political brexit leadership, which is how you portrayed the quote, and why I raised the issue with you. You constantly hararangue us to speak the truth and not to dissemble, then you go and make misleading statements, tut tut.

Oh dear! Now you have just insulted those brexiteers that considered the articles on that site to be a valuable brexit resource (a staunch brexit friend of mine was very into Leave.hq postings - which is how I came across it). There are many brexit groups and organizations all promoting their flavour of brexit, each one offering leadership to those that believe what they are saying. This one appears to be quite influential in it obviously has the ear of members of Vote.Leave and other brexit leaning groups.

BTW, I was very clear, I only said 'brexit leadership' - which encompasses all those purporting to provide leadership to brexiteers. If you read the word 'political' into it then you have only misled yourself. Don't do the old brexit trick of blaming everybody else for your own misunderstandings.

However, to avoid you making the same misunderstanding in the future, can you maybe post which brexit sites you consider to offer leadership versus those that I should ignore - I can then focus on their writings, musings and articles for discussion. My problem is that if you ask 10 brexiteers what brexit means to them you will get at least 20 different answers.


PS: Please please please tell me Vote.Leave and Leave.EU are acceptable sources (I can have such fun exposing their lies)

[barney]

OMG
The war is over !!!!
Stop fighting.
You’ll drive yourself mad.

I expect like the vast majority, I expected us to leave the Eu with a basic trade deal.
We probably still will.
As for staying within Eu institutions, I couldn’t care less whether we do or not.
If it’s beneficial to both parties, then why not, but if they don’t want to, then fine.

International Security is the main issue and please believe me when I say that this totally bypasses the institution of the Eu.
Brussels could never be trusted with that.

[Gill W]

OMG
The war is over !!!!
Stop fighting.
You’ll drive yourself mad.

That cuts both ways, Barney.

[barney]

OMG
The war is over !!!!
Stop fighting.
You’ll drive yourself mad.

That cuts both ways, Barney.

Absolutely Gill

[Gill W]

Is it still ‘Project Fear’ when Gove warns hauliers about queues of 7000 lorries? (Worse case scenario)

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54260470

[oldbluefox]

The war is over.
Stop fighting fgs!!!

[Onelife]

Is it still ‘Project Fear’ when Gove warns hauliers about queues of 7000 lorries? (Worse case scenario)

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54260470

If the French want to play hard ball they'll be cutting off their nose to spite their face. I don't know how may EU lorries cross the channel but they will have to go back again so any queues either side of the channel will be as disruptive to Europe as they will for our exports.

[barney]

It’s not really about the French playing hardball.
It’s quite normal for any truck crossing a border to have the correct paperwork.
Let’s be honest, firms have had four years to get their house in order.
This issue has absolutely nothing to do with the trade talks.
Deal or no deal, trucks still need the correct customs documentation.
As Gill will know living in Kent, the majority of trucks on Kent roads are Eu trucks and they will be held up if there is a backlog.
There’s a system called cabotage that is currently in place.
Ireland will be massively affected given that they have to cross our garden to get to their house.

[screwy]

Tell me about paperwork and customs.!
When I was trucking those German Customs were like the SS..!! Dutch and Belgian were pussy cats.

[Kendhni]

Tell me about paperwork and customs.!
When I was trucking those German Customs were like the SS..!! Dutch and Belgian were pussy cats.

No idea, but if this story had have come from a non-brexiteer it would have been labelled project fear
https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-micha ... s-12079101

Occam may need a new broom

[oldbluefox]

Plenty of coulds and ifs in that article. With so many privisos it could be saying anything.

[Kendhni]

Plenty of coulds and ifs in that article. With so many privisos it could be saying anything.

Unfortunately everything these days is punctuated by 'ifs', 'coulds', 'maybes' etc. - it is a trained writing style in some environments.
I am hoping Gove is giving a worst possible case.

[Onelife]

It’s not really about the French playing hardball.
It’s quite normal for any truck crossing a border to have the correct paperwork.
Let’s be honest, firms have had four years to get their house in order.
This issue has absolutely nothing to do with the trade talks.
Deal or no deal, trucks still need the correct customs documentation.
As Gill will know living in Kent, the majority of trucks on Kent roads are Eu trucks and they will be held up if there is a backlog.
There’s a system called cabotage that is currently in place.
Ireland will be massively affected given that they have to cross our garden to get to their house.

I was under the impression there would be copious amounts of extra paper work with or with out a deal but l will concede to your greater understanding on this issue.

[barney]

There will be paperwork with or without a trade agreement keefy.
Much should be done electronically and France make their own decision on whether they want to check every truck or not.
The U.K. have said that we are not doing it to incoming vehicles.
We import literally tens of thousands containers a year into the country from all over the world.
Some are checked, most are not.
Should the Eu decide that every truck without the correct documentation is checked, that is their prerogative.
Most of them will be Eu trucks anyway.
It’s generally intelligence driven.

[towny44]

Plenty of coulds and ifs in that article. With so many privisos it could be saying anything.

Unfortunately everything these days is punctuated by 'ifs', 'coulds', 'maybes' etc. - it is a trained writing style in some environments.
I am hoping Gove is giving a worst possible case.

I thought that was obvious from the initial comment that logistics companies should ensure they have the correct documentation accurately completed otherwise.......

[Kendhni]

Plenty of coulds and ifs in that article. With so many privisos it could be saying anything.

Unfortunately everything these days is punctuated by 'ifs', 'coulds', 'maybes' etc. - it is a trained writing style in some environments.
I am hoping Gove is giving a worst possible case.

I thought that was obvious from the initial comment that logistics companies should ensure they have the correct documentation accurately completed otherwise.......

That would make sense, but how many times do you stand in a queue at a checkout when you notice it seems to be a surprise to the person in front that they have to pay, and they start looking for a wallet or purse. It might only take a few drivers not to have a 't' dotted and an 'i' crossed for a queue to start forming and then it cascades. Hopefully, even if this does happen, it will be short lived.

Except for the Marcus's of this world

[Gill W]

So there’s going to be a new border within the U.K.

Between Kent and the rest of the U.K. Even Project Fear didn’t predict that one.

I think I will need to apply for a

Kent
Residents
Access
Pass

[screwy]

When I first started trucking into Europe,I was delivering our companies products. The paperwork was done in the office, I handed to the agent at Hull dock who did whatever. It was not checked again until I reached the Dutch/ German border, again I handed it to agents who then took it to the German customs, I was then allowed to proceed, the Germans also had a habit of ‘ dipping ‘ your tanks, to make sure you didn’t have too much fuel. It probably only took an hour.

[barney]

So there’s going to be a new border within the U.K.

Between Kent and the rest of the U.K. Even Project Fear didn’t predict that one.

I think I will need to apply for a

Kent
Residents
Access
Pass

You can’t have any old riff raff coming in Gill.
Next thing you know they’ll be coming from north of the river

[Mervyn and Trish]

Although I'm a leaver and will be glad to be gone I wish that in the extraordinary circumstances of 2020 the UK and the EU could have agreed a 12 month pause in proceedings. Clearly both parties have had a huge distraction from the important trade talks.

[Gill W]

Although I'm a leaver and will be glad to be gone I wish that in the extraordinary circumstances of 2020 the UK and the EU could have agreed a 12 month pause in proceedings. Clearly both parties have had a huge distraction from the important trade talks.

I agree Merv. It seems crazy to be ploughing ahead in the current circumstances.

[barney]

Although I'm a leaver and will be glad to be gone I wish that in the extraordinary circumstances of 2020 the UK and the EU could have agreed a 12 month pause in proceedings. Clearly both parties have had a huge distraction from the important trade talks.

The Eu did offer a two year pause Merv but we declined.
The conditions were approx £25 billion in contributions and adherence to any new Eu laws passed during that period.
That would have meant a substantial contribution to the Eu recovery fund of, some say, about £100 billion .
The price of a pause is not acceptable for a third country.