The late Baroness Thatcher.

[HK phooey]

The time for dancing in the street by those who hated her was when MT resigned from politics imo. To celebrate the death of an old lady with dementia shows a stunning lack of human compassion and I heartly despise the morons who engaged/will engage in it. I was certainly no fan of Maggie but no one can ever say she lived a little life and she was spot on about the EU. Why would any sane person want to protest at her funeral? She won't hear them and her family had nothing to do with her policies. That said I find it a bit laughable that some are asking for this thread to be treated as a book of condolence. This is the general chat section of a cruise site and it's not likely that Maggie's family will be looking in. Surely all opinions should be allowed and only very offensive posts removed, this is not Crow's Nest after all.

[Ms B]

The North is celebrating and the South is in morning.

[Not so ancient mariner]

That is a gross generalisation!

[HK phooey]

A slightly simplistic view Ms B, but tell me why is the north only celebrating now? Maggie has been out of politics for a long time now.

[Delboy]

The North is celebrating and the South is in morning.

In your opinion, I have seen many posts on various forums, paying tribute to Baroness Thatcher, who come from the North.

[Manoverboard]

... Surely all opinions should be allowed and only very offensive posts removed ...

The subject of Mrs T was always going to result in a difference of opinion and reading the posts will demonstrate that has indeed been the case, what was best avoided were secondary off Topic debates about censureship and the like.

In an ideal world all Members would have shown restraint until after the service and if that is how things are done on Crows Nest then well done them.

[Silver_Shiney]

In an ideal world all Members would have shown restraint until after the service and if that is how things are done on Crows Nest then well done them.

In an ideal world members would have shown restraint, and would continue to do so even after the service. As Helen said, the lady is no longer with us, her family are highly unlikely to be aware of what is said here, so the spilling of puerile vitriol will serve no purpose other than to show the immaturity of those making the comments.

It is sufficient to say that you didn't agree with her policies.

[HK phooey]

Moby, on Crow's Nest everyone is sickly sweet to everbody else and nothing else is allowed - not my cup of tea at all. I wasn't suggesting that there be a mass brawl on here over the rights and wrongs of the Thatcher government and I'm sure some things would still be offensive even if said after the service.

[Mo2013]

It has been years since Margaret Thatcher was in office but but people are taking the opportunity to air their views - including MPs today who are still speaking in the House with their own recollections - good and bad.

Here is an extract from Ed Miliband's speech.

"Whatever your view of her, Margaret Thatcher was a unique and towering figure. I disagreed with much of what she did but I respect what her death means for many, many people who admired her and I honour her personal achievements ...

Today is an opportunity for us to reflect on Margaret Thatcher's personal achievements, her style of politics and her political legacy. The journey from being the child of a grocer to Downing Street is an unlikely one. It is particularly remarkable because she was the daughter of a grocer. At each stage of her life she broke the mould - a woman at Oxford, when there was not a single woman at the university who held a full professorship, a woman chemist, when most people assumed scientists had to be men, a woman candidate for Parliament in 1950 when there was opposition from her local party in Dartford at the age of only 24, a woman MP in 1959 when just 4% of MPs in the whole of this House were women. The only woman in the Cabinet when she was appointed in 1970. Of course, the first woman prime minister ...

But it would be dishonest and not in keeping with the principles Margaret Thatcher stood for, even on this day, not to be open about the strong opinions and deep divisions there were and are. In mining areas, like the one I represent, communities felt angry and abandoned. Gay and lesbian people felt stigmatised by measures like Section 28, which today's Conservative Party has rightly repudiated. On the world stage, as this Prime Minister rightly said in 2006 when he was leader of the Opposition, she made the wrong judgment about Nelson Mandela and sanctions on South Africa. "

A balanced discussion incorporates both sides of the coin.

[Silver_Shiney]

A balanced discussion incorporates both sides of the coin.

... and without descending into personal abuse.

[ChesterfieldJohn]

A balanced discussion incorporates both sides of the coin.

...Unlike on this board.

[Manoverboard]

A balanced discussion incorporates both sides of the coin.

...Unlike on this board.

Looking back at all the postings your views, John, have been expressed strongly and with an anti MT bias.

No problem but it is surely incorrect to state that balance isn't permitted given that most, if not all, of your own posts demonstrate the opposite.

Regards MobiMod

[kaymar]

A balanced discussion incorporates both sides of the coin.

...Unlike on this board.

Looking back at all the postings your views, John, have been expressed strongly and with an anti MT bias.

No problem but it is surely incorrect to state that balance isn't permitted given that most, if not all, of your own posts demonstrate the opposite.

Regards MobiMod

Even though no-one else appears to agree with them - or maybe that's the problem?

[Dark Knight]

whatever people's view of MT's politics, surely, there can be restraint at the funeral, afterall her children and grandchildren do not deserve it to be interrupoted by a few mindless idiots.
watching the tv over the last few days, those who are shouting loudest were not even born when she goverernd
watching silly students prancing and singing is a great advert for the current state of this country and it's education policy

[Mo2013]

John,
There is nothing there which criticises Mrs Thatcher but on the contrary draws attention to her strengths and achievements. This is neither the topic nor the time to get too involved in expressing disapproval of what Margaret Thatcher did or did not do and gfwgfw is absolutely correct in alerting us to avoid that debate at this present time.

So the post is actually just to praise Thatcher.

Isnt this censorship??

I think the tone was set by the implication that only positive eulogies were welcomed on the thread. By the same token posts condemning and disaproving of those who feel the need to express their dislike, bitterness and resentment of MT are allowed, in spite of member's wishes that this is not the time for such posts. To be accepting of some views whilst stating others are not wanted is not a balanced debate. Had the thread been deemed a thread to eulogise the woman, then that would have been adhered to.

[Mo2013]

Kaymar wrote " Even though no-one else appears to agree with them - or maybe that's the problem? "


This is descending into personal territory I feel. In my opinion, if one holds strong principles and beliefs, it does not matter whether everyone agrees with you, Margaret Thatcher was a good example of doing what she wanted - no, the problem is that people are able to post their views (whether or not they differ from other views) without fear or favour and for others to respect those views, even if they don't agree.

[ChesterfieldJohn]

A balanced discussion incorporates both sides of the coin.

...Unlike on this board.

Looking back at all the postings your views, John, have been expressed strongly and with an anti MT bias.

No problem but it is surely incorrect to state that balance isn't permitted given that most, if not all, of your own posts demonstrate the opposite.

Regards MobiMod

The diference is MOB that unlike the positive posts the few negative ones were attacked immediately.
I disagreed that we should have to pay such a vast sum for the funeral suggesting it would be better for the needy and was told that I should give up my next cruise and give this to the needy.
Despite the fact that I have never even spoken to this person before.

John

[Manoverboard]

.... >>>>

No problem but it is surely incorrect to state that balance isn't permitted given that most, if not all, of your own posts demonstrate the opposite.

Regards MobiMod

The diference is MOB that unlike the positive posts the few negative ones were attacked immediately.
I disagreed that we should have to pay such a vast sum for the funeral suggesting it would be better for the needy and was told that I should give up my next cruise and give this to the needy.
Despite the fact that I have never even spoken to this person before.

John

Yes I noticed that and while I was weighing it up you responded in kind

To your credit you both then let it go, much appreciated as I prefer not to delete too many posts as the focus is then shifted from Mrs T to the Moderators ... if you follow my drift.

[Manoverboard]

Please note ...

It would now be appreciated if posts remain ' On Topic ' as this will save us having to delete them.

Regards MobiMod

[Mo2013]

I hope that people will not 'spoil' Margaret Thatcher's funeral but you only have to look at society as a whole to see that there is no respect for anything these days from some. Many people will not care about this lady's passing, but will be more concerned with their own struggle to survive and the cost of this funeral will not sit easily with them. And they will not want to see/hear gushing eulogies about someone whose policies they believed affected their lives, not just at the time, but in later years too.

[HK phooey]

The decision to give MT a state funeral is , I believe, a decision made by the Queen and the prime minister. The cost imo opinion should be borne by the Queen, the conservative party and Maggie's estate.

[Mo2013]

Just googling about Margaret Thatcher's funeral and read the following:

"Her funeral will be a ceremonial service with full military honours - similar to the funerals for Princess Diana in 1997 and the Queen Mother in 2002. Baroness Thatcher had discussed plans for the ceremony before her death and will not lie in state at her own request. But the plans for the lavish state-funded send-off have brought a fierce backlash.

The funeral is expected to cost up to £10million with the taxpayer bearing the brunt of the costs. It has been confirmed a "contribution" to the cost of the funeral will be made from Lady Thatcher's estate. The official cost to the public purse will be released after the service has taken place. The security operation alone is set to cost £5million. Police across the capital have been ordered to cancel any leave they had planned for Operation True Blue next ­Wednesday.

There could be more than 4,000 officers and 2,000 troops lining the route. Hundreds of specialist police will be working on counter-terrorism measures, with others carefully monitoring CCTV cameras for trouble spots. Every corner of the route will be checked by sniffer dogs, with sewers and drains closed."

The taxpayer bearing the brunt of the costs is what people will rail against in these difficult times, as do those who rail against their hard earned taxes being used to pay welfare benefits .......

[Delboy]

Unbelievable... The majority of those people dancing in the street, and attacking Baroness Thatcher, is by people who weren't even born when she was first elected. At 73 years of age, I well remember the years leading up to her coming into office, I REMEMBER the power cuts, and the rubbish piling up in the streets, and dead people not being buried, and the 3 day working week.
I remember her allowing people to start their own businesses more easily and buy shares, and buy their council houses , I remember her and President Reagan bringing about the end of the Cold War and the threat of Nuclear Armageddon ( we used to watch ads on how to survive a nuclear attack by Soviet Russia, thats what you call kids T.V.) .
I remember her putting a stop to Union Barons calling strikes at will, even though the workers didn't want to strike , often bringing the country to a grinding halt so shops ran out of bread, and garages ran out of petrol etc and I remember her telling Europe to keep their hands off OUR money.
All I know is that for all her faults , of which their were many, I dread to think what would have happened to this country if she hadn't been there at the time, because there wasn't a man in the Kingdom who could have grabbed this country by the scruff of the neck, drag if off its knees, slap it round the face a few times, and tell it to go and make money.
Oh and I remember that she was an old Lady who just passed away, and that her kids are crying.
They're giving her a ceremonial at St Paul's, as they should, as a Baroness, the first female prime minister, and the longest serving, being re elected 3 times.
Oh and the dickheads who try to throw eggs etc at her coffin as the World watches on T.V.(which they will), and shout obscenities ( which they will) should be ashamed of themselves for being so ignorant of the facts about a time of which they know nothing about !
O, and I have not mentioned the Falklands.
What I do know is, there has not been a prime minister since, who has had the balls that Lady Thatcher had.
Regarding her funeral arrangements, (code blue) these would have been a joint party decision, arranged long before this government came into power, the queen would have had to give her blessing, but would not have been involved, in the decision making.

[HK phooey]

I'm sure I read that on Facebook yesterday.

[Boris+]

To some extent I believe that this purported cost is the product of a good deal of creative accounting. I also find debating the cost of a funeral distasteful - I don't mind briefly discussing the cost of a wedding; but I personally believe that the amount spent on either a wedding or a funeral won't guarantee any outcome.

At the end of the day - and here I must apologise in advance - this sad occasion will be a trial run for future ceremonial funerals. Therefore, to begin with people need to view this purported cost in a different light and dilute it accordingly.

Em