The late Baroness Thatcher.

[Mo2013]

Hi Em,

This country cannot afford anything, there are cuts galore, so how can the country afford this funeral? Why don't all those people who loved her all club together? The whole gist of my posts is to highlight the absolute right of those who suffered under Margaret Thatcher to 'celebrate' her death and to highlight the absolute right of those who do not believe that the taxpayer should fund this funeral to say so.

[Delboy]

People will 'whinge on and on about it' as long as they wish, and yes, they do blame it all on that lady. I didn't like her. I didn't like her patronising condescending personality, I didn't like her arrogance, her heartlessness and contempt towards those in society who didn't have the wherewithal to be any better than they were able to to be. 'She lived by the mantra that you were “One Of Us” or you were there to be beaten.'

Good for you, I am sure many will agree with you, equally many will not.
Personally I could not disagree more, yes she was not faultless, but for me she was the right person, in the right job at the right time.
The country needed somebody with her strengths of character and determination, to drag it up from the depths it had sunk and as has been said put the "great" back into Britain.
This country is crying out today, for a leader with the same strengths to get us out of its present problems.

[ChesterfieldJohn]

People will 'whinge on and on about it' as long as they wish, and yes, they do blame it all on that lady. I didn't like her. I didn't like her patronising condescending personality, I didn't like her arrogance, her heartlessness and contempt towards those in society who didn't have the wherewithal to be any better than they were able to to be. 'She lived by the mantra that you were “One Of Us” or you were there to be beaten.'

Good for you, I am sure many will agree with you, equally many will not.
Personally I could not disagree more, yes she was not faultless, but for me she was the right person, in the right job at the right time.
The country needed somebody with her strengths of character and determination, to drag it up from the depths it had sunk and as has been said put the "great" back into Britain.
This country is crying out today, for a leader with the same strengths to get us out of its present problems.

I agree with you completely Mo2013.
It is sad that peoples memories are all one sided, we did need a strong person in charge to quell the unions.
We did not need a person who only cared about the wealthy.
We needed strong industries managed by strong people, in my opinion this could have been done without destroying all the industries that we had.
Or selling them off to the rich.
A load of myths surround Thatcher, she only took her mp salary but paid the rest to charity, no proof whatsoever.
She cared about her family, read the quotes by her daughter Carol how her life ended when she was kicked out of Downing Street she had nothing she cared about.
She was driven by power not by caring, the quotes by her cabinet back this up.

She was the one who changed the law to allow bankers to do what they have done.

She gave to charity as she got older, which one? The one that affected her personally.


The cost of her funeral should be paid for by her family, they have topay inheritance tax someone said, well if they have to pay it they can afford it.

The people protesting and celebrating werent born under her 'reign' they didnt have to be the effect is still felt now 'oop north'.

I hope her funeral is peaceful, but people should remember that not everyone prospered under her and it is not possible for everyone to change their lifestyle to suit her policies.

John

[Serendipity]

I live oop north and have no bad feelings towards Mrs Thatcher.
She fought the likes of Scargill who did not care for anyone but his own selfish greed, Hatton was another, he duped Liverpool Council out of thousands of pounds. For all that is said about Baroness Thatcher, I believe she was an honest woman who believed in the UK.
Let us just hope and pray that the left wing socialist bigots do not ruin this very British lady's funeral.
We all deserve to have peace in death and she is no exception.

[Boris+]

Mo - you and I are poles apart, we simply couldn't be more different. You stick to your beliefs, and I shall maintain mine.

One of the things which I believe is that discussing the cost of a funeral is not done in polite circles. I suspect that the cost which is being bandied about is the result of creative accounting - as others have mentioned - and I also think that maybe just maybe the press are blowing this out of all proportion.

I absolutely abhor and deplore the actions of people who seek to celebrate the fact that another person has died (and most likely in an unruly offensive manner) - nothing is ever going to change my mind on that, and to paraphrase the late Baroness Thatcher, this Lady is not for turning. If someone wishes to make a point then let them do so in an orderly and respectful manner. If they can't show respect to the deceased then they should blasted well show respect and consideration for those who are paying their respects to the deceased and her family - the would-be protesters most certainly do not have a 'right' as you put it to cause offence.

Serendipity - I agree with what you posted, and you put it so clearly.

Em

[ChesterfieldJohn]

Mo - you and I are poles apart, we simply couldn't be more different. You stick to your beliefs, and I shall maintain mine.

One of the things which I believe is that discussing the cost of a funeral is not done in polite circles. I suspect that the cost which is being bandied about is the result of creative accounting - as others have mentioned - and I also think that maybe just maybe the press are blowing this out of all proportion.

I absolutely abhor and deplore the actions of people who seek to celebrate the fact that another person has died (and most likely in an unruly offensive manner) - nothing is ever going to change my mind on that, and to paraphrase the late Baroness Thatcher, this Lady is not for turning. If someone wishes to make a point then let them do so in an orderly and respectful manner. If they can't show respect to the deceased then they should blasted well show respect and consideration for those who are paying their respects to the deceased and her family - the would-be protesters most certainly do not have a 'right' as you put it to cause offence.

Serendipity - I agree with what you posted, and you put it so clearly.

Em

Boris,
I agree with you the cost of a funeral should never be discussed, however in this case everyone is paying towards it so it should be common knowledge.

Serendipity I said that the effect of her 'reign' could still be felt 'oop North'

John

[Onelife]

I think we have two types of Prime Minister... those that walk a fine line whilst trying and be all things to all men and then achieve nothing... then we have those who don’t pussy foot around and do what is necessary for the country as a whole. Margret Thatcher came along at the right time for our country because it was a sure fact we couldn’t have carried on the way we were going. We as a country had no direction, little ambition and the complacency that allowed us to become uncompetitive in a world market.

I do wonder how things would have panned out if we hadn’t found North Sea Oil... however we did and the rest is history and that’s where it should be left as far as I’m concerned.

[Serendipity]

Sorry JohnChesterfield but things oop north are going ok, nothing changed as far as I can see.
I think Onelife has said it all and its best left.

[ChesterfieldJohn]

No need to be sorry everyone is entitled to their own opinion

John

[Dark Knight]

Speaking to my dad ,who was a miner for all his working life,he lays the blame for the miners demise at the feet of the unions and Scargill in particular.

interesting how the people really affected and right at the picket line, have a different opinion from those on the sidelines or those who lived it second hand.

[ChesterfieldJohn]

Speaking to my dad ,who was a miner for all his working life,he lays the blame for the miners demise at the feet of the unions and Scargill in particular.

interesting how the people really affected and right at the picket line, have a different opinion from those on the sidelines or those who lived it second hand.

I was involved in the steel strike and I know loads of miners who blame Thatcher, I personally believe that they were both to blame two pig headed people.

[Mo2013]

'The rest is history and that's where it should be left.' Interesting that it is ok for glowing references to be made after all these years but detracting comments are best left unsaid ?

[Delboy]

Post earlier indicating Mrs Thatcher being stabbed in the back, strange the same happened to Arthur Scargill and the National Union Of Miners.

In case anybody accuses it of being hear say, here is a link, one on many.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17111486

[Dark Knight]

John
my point is that for some people, MT is an easy target, when they were not involved
people who were directly involved and not just watching on TV or from the sidelines, know that both sides were equally to blame
the unions were killing our industry and our country with poor work ethics, strikes, and shoddy production, coal and steel could be brought in cheaper from Germany and Australia, british cars were a joke, I know had had several 70's cars
it needed a strong character to break the cycle, which MT did.

everyone is entitled to and has an opinion, but to lay all the ills of the last 30 odd years at her door, is frankly stupid and those who do not acknowledge both sides of the coin are blinkered and narrow minded
It takes two to have an argument and two to reach an agreement, if one side or the other refuses to negotiate, then the loser will always, cry foul
Scargill could have negotiated but he was every bit the powermonger, even his own union, set up a splinter union to get rid of him, after he lobbied to be made president for life, every bit as hard headed and stubborn, but scargill, thought he could hold the country to ransom to win, MT played a better hand of cards , coz she ran the country, the miners were never going to win.

[ChesterfieldJohn]

John
my point is that for some people, MT is an easy target, when they were not involved
people who were directly involved and not just watching on TV or from the sidelines, know that both sides were equally to blame
the unions were killing our industry and our country with poor work ethics, strikes, and shoddy production, coal and steel could be brought in cheaper from Germany and Australia, british cars were a joke, I know had had several 70's cars
it needed a strong character to break the cycle, which MT did.

everyone is entitled to and has an opinion, but to lay all the ills of the last 30 odd years at her door, is frankly stupid and those who do not acknowledge both sides of the coin are blinkered and narrow minded
It takes two to have an argument and two to reach an agreement, if one side or the other refuses to negotiate, then the loser will always, cry foul
Scargill could have negotiated but he was every bit the powermonger, even his own union, set up a splinter union to get rid of him, after he lobbied to be made president for life, every bit as hard headed and stubborn, but scargill, thought he could hold the country to ransom to win, MT played a better hand of cards , coz she ran the country, the miners were never going to win.

Scargill was stupid, both were pig headed and set on confrontation.

Scargill played in to Thatchers hands by not having a vote.

As I said previously I believe both were to blame.

Scargill was broken because the Miners became split and the Nottingham miners broke free from the main union and set up there own as just been stated above.

John

[Dark Knight]

John
nice to have a measured discussion, my dad was on the front line of the pickets and strikes and he refused to talk about at the time, as it was so devisive
his biggest regret was it turned family and friends against each other and divided whole communities.

[ChesterfieldJohn]

John
nice to have a measured discussion, my dad was on the front line of the pickets and strikes and he refused to talk about at the time, as it was so devisive
his biggest regret was it turned family and friends against each other and divided whole communities.

My Father in law was a deputy, so he was not on strike many of my friends were on strike anfd it broke up many a friendship.

Even now some families do not speak and when the Sheffield teams play Notts Forest they still chant 'scabs' at them.

My best friend as not spoken to his brother since the strike because he returned to work before the strike ended.

As I said the Unions needed stopping, but not at the expense of the industries.

I was pushed about by the Metropolitan Police numerous times, just because I lived in a pit village and used the local paper shop
on the way to work.

Theyu were encouraged to do this by 'theestablishment'

John

[Onelife]

Mo 2013

If you wish to quote any of my posts I would be obliged if you’d quote the whole sentence and not parts of...

“I do wonder how things would have panned out if we hadn’t found North Sea Oil... however we did and the rest is history and that’s where it should be left ... “as far as I’m concerned”

Although my comments have been few and far on this thread I don’t recall any that have suggested you or anyone else should be gagged?

Regards

Keith

[Kendhni]

She fought the likes of Scargill who did not care for anyone but his own selfish greed, Hatton was another, he duped Liverpool Council out of thousands of pounds.

Just typical of the socialist mentality *Ken Livingstone being another) ... when others have it then they should give it to them ... but when it is their turn to jump on the gravy train then boy will they milk it. As far as the unions were concerned they were dictatorial closed shops that told their members what to think and what to do ... I do not believe Scargll and MT were equally to blame .. I believe the unions had already done the majority of damage in the 70's (to the point of no return), and expected the tax payer to fund bloated inefficient industries full of staff being paid well beyond their job descriptions.

That was the difference between them and Thatcher. Thatcher believed in empowering everybody to aspire to be better and have ambition to achieve what they could. She set out the entrepreneurial spirit in the UK and put in place many of the processes and facilities required to fulfill those needs. Those with ambition grasped this, those with no ambition sat about whining and have been doing so ever since.

What is disappointing is that many of the rent-a-mob I have seen on the streets are young enough to have only benefited from the Thatcher years ... it shows how brain washed and bigotted their parents must be to have brain washed them into highlighting how poor they are ... as they vandalised property and swigged champagne on the streets.


Someone earlier said MT was responsible for the high energy prices .. a very blinkered and myopic analysis ... we were paying a fortune through tax subsidies for our utility companies (with their privitisation they became leaner (by dumping all the deadwood) and much more efficient ... any increased costs were more than offset by reduction in subsidies from the tax payer). Also the real significant rise in prices came during the noughties ... maybe the government of the time were so worthless and incompetent that they could do nothing about it.

In the same way as Thatchers legacy of a booming economy lived on for over a decade after she left power so will Labours legacy of bankruptcy live on for over a decade.

[Kendhni]

I am going to put my cards on the table here. Even during war time the worst of enemies allow the other side to bury their dead with dignity .. something I believe is right and proper.

I will apply the same rules and consider anybody who tries to disrupt the funeral as nothing more than low-life scum and should be seen and heralded as such by all right thinking people.

I can understand the lower echelons of society (including those who have supported terrorism and murder) possibly holding street parties during the funeral ... but then if that is the sort of example they really want to show to the next generation and to rest of the world, then it shows that there are still obnoxious misogynistic neanderthallic elements in our wider society. Maybe I am being pessimistic and the people of the UK will prove me wrong .. maybe they will allow the funeral to take place in a respectful manner and prove to the world why we are Great Britain ... after that the debate can really begin.

[Manoverboard]

On Question Time last night it was nice to see Ming Campbell and even David Blunkett paying their respects yet still being able to ' debate ' the impact of her and her policies ... only Polly Toynbee demonstrated a need to score points with bitterness, which does her no credit as far as I am concerned.

Of wider interest to me was a young woman from Latvia, ex Russian, who simply could not even start to comprehend how anybody in this Country could possibly be hostile to such a great leader ... perhaps things become clearer from a greater distance.

[Boris+]

Ken, I applaud and respect what you have just posted.

However - from what I can glean the problems at the coalpits which started some of the furore started with the fact that there were going to be closures and/or redundancies caused by the fact that it was no longer financially viable to keep such facilities operating. You may comment that it seems as though I wasn't here at the time - guess what ...... I wasn't!

If people wish now to make a stance and undertake some form of protest - in what the media call 'this day and age of austerity' why waste not just money and energy and an opportunity? Turn the protest into something hopefully longer lasting than a drunken loud mouthed brawl in public - put the energy and the funds into something like working in a park or a public space and ok - label it if you wish as a piece of work done in memory of the problems encountered by miners all those years ago!

Look at it - what will do the would-be protestors more good ...... a bit of work sorting out a bit of run-down land or park etc or a drunken brawl in a busy area with the car fumes, the hard pavements, the lack of opportunty to relax - or some activity closer to where they live? The protest option as they see it now is a flash in the pan, and a waste of money and energy, whereas what I am suggesting would last much longer, benefit more people, need I go on with listing the positives?

Meanwhile therefore, like Ken posted - I shall regard any troublesome protestors next week as beneath contempt.

Em

[Stephen]

I don't remember the government announcing we are now out of debt!

Another burden on the tax payer for the funeral which personally I think is way over the top, even though I admired her.

William Haig said "she brought 75 billion into the UK economy when she was in office so I think we can afford her a funeral". Yes, and how long ago was that, 23yrs since she left office! That money has probably been long spent, no doubt bankers bonuses took a good junk of it and the rest on expense fiddling.

And anyway, what's wrong with the co-op, same outcome at a fraction of the cost

[jay-ell71]

First let me say I am ambivalent regarding whether or not the Lady is given a "state" funeral or not. However, if we are to dismiss the 75 billion as being brought to the UK so long ago that it is no longer relevant, then the policies that Margaret Thatcher implemented happened so long ago, must also be irrelevant, mustn't they? Jay

[Delboy]

Just a point, the £75 billion was not a long while a go, this is the ongoing total to date, the rebate she negotiated is an annual rebate.

It is worth €3.6 billion per annum.