Life After Brexit

[barney]

To go for no deal based on fishing issues, would not only be the most stupid thing Johnson has ever done but it would be crassly irresponsible.

To go for no deal based on fishing issues, would not only be the most stupid thing Barnier has ever done but it would be crassly irresponsible.

On both sides of the coin I agree.

I think continued governance is the most important for Brussels.
They just can’t let go.
Just imagine a few short years down the road and the U.K. is looking to do a deal with say the USA or RCEP.
If we had a free trade agreement with the Eu AND the rest of the civilised world, they think it would damage them competitively.
They are probably right as well as it’s well known that the Eu is extremely protective of it’s position.

[Ray Scully]

I just hope we don't end up with what is now looking like a dogs dinner of a deal. We will then continue arguing for generation as to who was right or wrong. We have left the EU. We can't get a deal which is advantageous to the UK Ltd, so with no deal we have clear water ahead to PROVE and benefit from all the advantages to being on our own as a sovereign state making our own laws.

[oldbluefox]

But we are told the EU are not controlling. We are free to do whatever we please and can veto anything we don't like.

Of course we know this not to be true and these negotiations demonstrate that even when we leave after the transition period the EU still want to control how we trade and to have access to our fish (although we can have the waters!!!) and any transgressions will be heard in the ECJ, their court.

[Frank Manning]

The EU and particularly the Brussels Eurocrats are all about control. Some cultures like it (dare I suggest Germany) some cultures just ignore it (dare I say France). If there is no deal I reckon that there will be something akin to warfare in the Channel and the North Sea. I just hope that we have enough warships to stop the european trawlers.

[barney]

But we are told the EU are not controlling. We are free to do whatever we please and can veto anything we don't like.

Of course we know this not to be true and these negotiations demonstrate that even when we leave after the transition period the EU still want to control how we trade and to have access to our fish (although we can have the waters!!!) and any transgressions will be heard in the ECJ, their court.

I appreciate that you are being ironic but the Eu is totally controlling of the member states.
Don’t do as they say and follow their rules and punishments are doled out (depending on who you are)
Germany transgresses? Hmmm. A little slap on the risk.
France transgresses? Hmmm. Don’t do it again.
Poland and Hungary transgress? Withdraw payment, voting rights and big fines threatened.

I totally disagree with the politics of those nations but they were democratically elected governments.
The alleged liberal Eu seem to be not so liberal after all, if they don’t like your politics.

That’s why they have currently done a huge f u and vetoed the next budget and covid bailout fund, even though they would be beneficiaries.

All is not well in LaLa land but at least they can continue to squander other people’s money.

[oldbluefox]

Personally I think the EU sees UK Ltd as more of a threat than the doubters would have us believe, otherwise why are they so insistent on these final parts of the jigsaw. Apparently all other parts are agreed and in place ready to be ratified but these three elements are preventing progress. If they were not so important to them they would have accepted them readily. Can't blame them, you don't want a major competitor doing well on your doorstep so you would expect them to mitigate the damage as much as possible. Otherwise there would be no other reason for their intransigence.

[Onelife]

We’ve just given the French 180 million in the hope that it will prevent them from allowing dinghy’s crossing over the channel…one way or the other they are going to screw us so we might just as well build up our fish stocks and wait until the French become sick to the back teeth of eating frogs…

There can be no sovereignty if we allow a foreign power to pressure us into giving them the bigger share of our waters.

[Gill W]

The recent replies on this thread could have been written at any time in the last 4 years.

Isn’t it time to move forward from endless Brexit theory to Brexit reality.

There’s barely a month to go before Brexit reality will slap everyone in the face. The best we can hope for is a thin deal, the worse no deal at all, both of which would be bad enough in normal times, let alone in a global pandemic.

The pandemic is enough for even the most competent government to cope with. Sadly, we do not have a competent government at the moment and they seem hell bent on heaping another crisis on us.

Whatever happens, we will no longer be in the single market, with all the red tape and paperwork that will bring. Nobody can deny there will be disruption - otherwise why would they be building lorry parks to cope with it all.

Isn’t it time for the conversation to move on from endless hot air and rhetoric, to what we personally are doing in practical terms to cope with the fall out? Or whether we are doing nothing at all, because it’s all going to be fine and it’s project fear

Or would are you going to repeat the same conversations until Judgement Day?

[david63]

I am doing nothing to prepare for Brexit as I don't know what there is to prepare for - I will deal with it when it comes. Life will not stop.

[oldbluefox]

I'm planning to have a few sherbets on January 1st 2021 partly to welcome the New Year and partly to welcome an EU free future.

[towny44]

I have ordered a big pack of toilet rolls and plenty of baked beans, just in case of panic buying.
But what can the individual do, we can't go anywhere so we don't need to ensure our passports are in order, and we can do little to ensure that supermarket shelves are kept stocked, so unless we are importers or exporters, there really is nothing we can do.

[Gill W]

Ah well, good luck to you all.

I don’t expect any complaints if it all goes pear shaped - what ever happens, it’s obviously going to be worth it to you and you appear to have no qualms at all

[oldbluefox]

Spot on Gill. You're absolutely right.

[towny44]

Spot on Gill. You're absolutely right.

I think she might have been taking tea leave reading lessons from OL.

[Manoverboard]

I'm planning to have a few sherbets on January 1st 2021 partly to welcome the New Year and partly to welcome an EU free future.

I'll drink to that .... albeit in the knowledge that our store cupboards and freezers are full to bursting

[barney]

One of our European suppliers , Danish company soyaconcept is certainly taking it very seriously.
They delivered our Spring collection last week just to be on the safe side & agreed that invoice date will not be until the end of February.
They are seriously concerned about Brexit's impact on their UK market.

We have four main clothing brands, two British, one Danish and one Italian.
We have dropped the Italian brand for next season and are looking for another British replacement.
That's tougher than we thought.
There are quite a few about but tend to be either very high end or market toot.
There are good opportunities out there for the willing and able.

I was particularly pleased to read the Guardian article about continuance of UK farming subsidies but with conditions attached, unlike the CAP.
This will give our farmers the edge when it comes to welfare.
I wonder if the EU countries will level up to our standards?

I've already lobbied my local MP to ask her to put forward a PMB to outlaw the transportation of live animals abroad.
It's a disgusting, barbaric practice and was only allowed to placate the Eastern European member states who didn't have adequate abattoir facilities.
That's yet another benefit to being outside.
I'd also like to see an end to the importation of fois gras & force fed veal. Both so very popular in Europe but falling within their 'high standards'

Like millions and millions of others, I shall be raising a glass on New Years Eve, to out glorious future.

[oldbluefox]

Ken talks about lies but after all the lies told to us by the likes of Major and Blair whilst simultaneously entrenching us more and more deeply into the EU network Gill could not have been more right. I could not be more delighted.
Furthermore I predict other nations will be keenly watching our progress outside the EU and will probably follow the same track.

[oldbluefox]

I've already lobbied my local MP to ask her to put forward a PMB to outlaw the transportation of live animals abroad.
It's a disgusting, barbaric practice and was only allowed to placate the Eastern European member states who didn't have adequate abattoir facilities.
That's yet another benefit to being outside.
I'd also like to see an end to the importation of fois gras & force fed veal. Both so very popular in Europe but falling within their 'high standards'

I hope this gathers momentum.
It's a disgraceful practice which must be so incredibly stressful on the animals. I hate to see the livestock transporters on the motorway heading for the ports. There is no reason at all why these creatures could not be slaughtered over here and the carcasses transported.
As for foie gras and force fed veal any foodstuffs created by imposing suffering on animals should be outlawed and banned and I hope our exit from the EU will bring about a rethink on caring animal husbandry, something of which the majority of our farming industry can be rightly proud.
No I am not a vegan or a veggie but if we are to eat meat they should be treated with care and humanity.

[barney]

Ken talks about lies but after all the lies told to us by the likes of Major and Blair whilst simultaneously entrenching us more and more deeply into the EU network Gill could not have been more right. I could not be more delighted.
Furthermore I predict other nations will be keenly watching our progress outside the EU and will probably follow the same track.

You misunderstood OBF.
They were not lies, they where forecasts.
It's simply that they got their forecasts wrong.
Anyone could make that mistake.
If I could be bothered, I'd dig out Osborn's predictions should the UK vote to leave.
He did get one correct to be fair. The £ fell against the dollar and Euro.
That was about it if I recall correctly.

[oldbluefox]

No, we are going back to their times as PM when they told us one thing and did another, as in the signing of different treaties. Blair promised a referendum on the EU in 2004 and 2005 but wormed his way out of it once elected. My disdain for this pair is unparalleled.

Interesting article by Mark Francois in his maiden speech as long ago as 2001 where he says:
“The British people were essentially told that they were assenting to a free trade area – a common market – and that is what they endorsed in 1975. The further we move from that position, the greater the risk that we shall exhaust their patience with all things European. We are an historically tolerant people, and we are willing to negotiate and co-operate, but we will not be subsumed by a foreign superstate that ignores our traditions and undermines our laws.”(Hansard, 4 July 2001, col 308).

The full article makes for interesting reason even for those struggling to understand why the referendum went as it did.

https://brexitcentral.com/mark-francois ... ds-brexit/

[barney]

No, we are going back to their times as PM when they told us one thing and did another, as in the signing of different treaties. Blair promised a referendum on the EU in 2004 and 2005 but wormed his way out of it once elected. My disdain for this pair is unparalleled.

Interesting article by Mark Francois in his maiden speech as long ago as 2001 where he says:
“The British people were essentially told that they were assenting to a free trade area – a common market – and that is what they endorsed in 1975. The further we move from that position, the greater the risk that we shall exhaust their patience with all things European. We are an historically tolerant people, and we are willing to negotiate and co-operate, but we will not be subsumed by a foreign superstate that ignores our traditions and undermines our laws.”(Hansard, 4 July 2001, col 308).

The full article makes for interesting reason even for those struggling to understand why the referendum went as it did.

https://brexitcentral.com/mark-francois ... ds-brexit/

Interesting that you post that OBF, because our resident Eurofanatic claims the exact opposite.

He recently posted that it was abundantly clear to all what they were voting for in the original referendum on continued membership.
A federal European superstate was always on the cards and anyone who didn't realise this in 1975 was either extremely thick or totally ignorant.

I cannot speak personally, because I was too young to vote in it, and was too busy chasing girls anyway.
Ken obviously read the prospectus meticulously and formed his opinions from that.

I recall my Dad saying something like "this isn't what I thought we were voting for" a few times, but then, he was a bit thick, I expect.

[barney]

I was listening to a James O'Brien anti democracy rant the other week on LBC, when he called the Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab 'a bit thick'

I thought to myself, maybe he is a bit thick, so checked his Wiki profile and found this.

Raab was born in Buckinghamshire and attended Dr Challoner's Grammar School before studying law at Lady Margaret Hall, Oxford and Jesus College, Cambridge. Raab worked in London at Linklaters and the human rights organisation Liberty, and in Brussels advising on law in the European Union and the World Trade Organization.[1] Raab joined Her Majesty's Diplomatic Service in 2000 where he was a lawyer in The Hague, bringing war criminals to justice. After returning to London, he was an adviser to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) on the Arab–Israeli conflict, the EU and Gibraltar.

So, one is a bit thick and has ascended to the role of Britain's foreign secretary and the other is a 'highly intelligent' shock jock on a radio station.

I rest my case about europhiles.

[screwy]

I cannot stand O’Brien, I turn off at 10. O’clock.

[oldbluefox]

I voted in 1975 but it must be remembered that in those days you did not have access to the information we enjoy nowadays. However the vote was very much directed towards whether we wanted to join the Common Market or not. As I remember federalism was never mentioned.

[barney]

I voted in 1975 but it must be remembered that in those days you did not have access to the information we enjoy nowadays. However the vote was very much directed towards whether we wanted to join the Common Market or not. As I remember federalism was never mentioned.

So, your recollection is definitely different to Ken’s.
He said it was made clear.
I seem to recall Jack Staff saying the same.